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Our New President - President Donald Trump

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auntblabby
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12 Nov 2017, 11:42 pm

EzraS wrote:
It seems to me that the President/government taking away millions of actually affordable healthcare policies that people liked, and forcefully replacing them with a mandatory system they don't like and can't afford, is an example of fascism.

what it boils down to is that some benefits/taxes were taken from the middle-class to aid the working class in getting health coverage for the first time in their lives, and the middle class doesn't like sharing.



EzraS
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13 Nov 2017, 12:02 am

auntblabby wrote:
EzraS wrote:
It seems to me that the President/government taking away millions of actually affordable healthcare policies that people liked, and forcefully replacing them with a mandatory system they don't like and can't afford, is an example of fascism.

what it boils down to is that some benefits/taxes were taken from the middle-class to aid the working class in getting health coverage for the first time in their lives, and the middle class doesn't like sharing.


The working class are the ones I'm talking about. All the ones working for big companies that had nice affordable healthcare plans.

It was a president making a totalitarian move destroying the current system in favor of his own. No one was given a choice. It was forced and madatory. That's dictatorial facism.



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13 Nov 2017, 12:06 am

Did everyone like the old healthcare plan? What about people who were just over the threshold for Medicaid but weren't getting health insurance provided by their work? Or don't the working class deserve healthcare?


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auntblabby
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13 Nov 2017, 12:20 am

EzraS wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
EzraS wrote:
It seems to me that the President/government taking away millions of actually affordable healthcare policies that people liked, and forcefully replacing them with a mandatory system they don't like and can't afford, is an example of fascism.

what it boils down to is that some benefits/taxes were taken from the middle-class to aid the working class in getting health coverage for the first time in their lives, and the middle class doesn't like sharing.


The working class are the ones I'm talking about. All the ones working for big companies that had nice affordable healthcare plans. It was a president making a totalitarian move destroying the current system in favor of his own. No one was given a choice. It was forced and madatory. That's dictatorial facism.

I think we both have irreconcilably different views of what constitutes working class. along with everything else.



auntblabby
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13 Nov 2017, 12:21 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
Did everyone like the old healthcare plan? What about people who were just over the threshold for Medicaid but weren't getting health insurance provided by their work? Or don't the working class deserve healthcare?

the widespread middle/upper class belief here in amuuurica is that the working class are disposable schlubs.



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13 Nov 2017, 12:29 am

auntblabby wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Did everyone like the old healthcare plan? What about people who were just over the threshold for Medicaid but weren't getting health insurance provided by their work? Or don't the working class deserve healthcare?

the widespread middle/upper class belief here in amuuurica is that the working class are disposable schlubs.

In that case I hope they don't like shopping because retail and even Amazon would be impossible to run without the working class.


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auntblabby
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13 Nov 2017, 12:39 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Did everyone like the old healthcare plan? What about people who were just over the threshold for Medicaid but weren't getting health insurance provided by their work? Or don't the working class deserve healthcare?

the widespread middle/upper class belief here in amuuurica is that the working class are disposable schlubs.

In that case I hope they don't like shopping because retail and even Amazon would be impossible to run without the working class.

the American working class is a long-term scapegoat. much of multinationals would be content to not have the American working class buy their products, relying instead on the rest of the world. that is going to become more the case in the coming years, in any case. amuuricans are uniquely fussy buyers prone to returning products for refund, something that is not so normal in the rest of the world, so for that and other reasons, multinationals have no special allegiance to amuurican consumers and might be happier without us.



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13 Nov 2017, 12:41 am

auntblabby wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Did everyone like the old healthcare plan? What about people who were just over the threshold for Medicaid but weren't getting health insurance provided by their work? Or don't the working class deserve healthcare?

the widespread middle/upper class belief here in amuuurica is that the working class are disposable schlubs.

In that case I hope they don't like shopping because retail and even Amazon would be impossible to run without the working class.

the American working class is a long-term scapegoat. much of multinationals would be content to not have the American working class buy their products, relying instead on the rest of the world. that is going to become more the case in the coming years, in any case. amuuricans are uniquely fussy buyers prone to returning products for refund, something that is not so normal in the rest of the world, so for that and other reasons, multinationals have no special allegiance to amuurican consumers and might be happier without us.

Trying to beat China at their own game are they?

Another thing I've observed is anti working class sentiment coming from the work class themselves. The poor right baffles me.


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auntblabby
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13 Nov 2017, 12:49 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Did everyone like the old healthcare plan? What about people who were just over the threshold for Medicaid but weren't getting health insurance provided by their work? Or don't the working class deserve healthcare?

the widespread middle/upper class belief here in amuuurica is that the working class are disposable schlubs.

In that case I hope they don't like shopping because retail and even Amazon would be impossible to run without the working class.

the American working class is a long-term scapegoat. much of multinationals would be content to not have the American working class buy their products, relying instead on the rest of the world. that is going to become more the case in the coming years, in any case. amuuricans are uniquely fussy buyers prone to returning products for refund, something that is not so normal in the rest of the world, so for that and other reasons, multinationals have no special allegiance to amuurican consumers and might be happier without us.

Trying to beat China at their own game are they? Another thing I've observed is anti working class sentiment coming from the work class themselves. The poor right baffles me.

yes, the American poor will not work together, alexis de Tocqueville and others sussed us out over a hundred years back, the American working class largely sees itself as future middle-class and above. the audacity of hope and all that. sheer selfish "I got mine so screw you!" stupidity. oh how I wish we had something here more like the "liberté, égalité, fraternité" of the French.



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13 Nov 2017, 1:37 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
Did everyone like the old healthcare plan? What about people who were just over the threshold for Medicaid but weren't getting health insurance provided by their work? Or don't the working class deserve healthcare?


The majority of the working class got screwed.



EzraS
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13 Nov 2017, 1:49 am

auntblabby wrote:
EzraS wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
EzraS wrote:
It seems to me that the President/government taking away millions of actually affordable healthcare policies that people liked, and forcefully replacing them with a mandatory system they don't like and can't afford, is an example of fascism.

what it boils down to is that some benefits/taxes were taken from the middle-class to aid the working class in getting health coverage for the first time in their lives, and the middle class doesn't like sharing.


The working class are the ones I'm talking about. All the ones working for big companies that had nice affordable healthcare plans. It was a president making a totalitarian move destroying the current system in favor of his own. No one was given a choice. It was forced and madatory. That's dictatorial facism.

I think we both have irreconcilably different views of what constitutes working class. along with everything else.


Really? I think people working in the low end of manufacturing, retail and service industries constitute the working class. People who have jobs that don't require a college degree or even a high school diploma in many cases. People who live paycheck to paycheck.

It seems like to you, anyone who rents a half way decent apartment and drives an economy car and makes around 2k per month are the middle class. I guess, I'm not sure. But it seems like you think only the absolute indigent deserve a break and everyone else owes them. And that the government should force mandates on people, while you bemoan facism.



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13 Nov 2017, 2:06 am

auntblabby wrote:
oh how I wish we had something here more like the "liberté, égalité, fraternité"

Who needs that when you have vassalité, imparité, animosité!


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13 Nov 2017, 2:07 am

EzraS wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Did everyone like the old healthcare plan? What about people who were just over the threshold for Medicaid but weren't getting health insurance provided by their work? Or don't the working class deserve healthcare?


The majority of the working class got screwed.


By Obamacare? How were they doing before?


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13 Nov 2017, 2:27 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Did everyone like the old healthcare plan? What about people who were just over the threshold for Medicaid but weren't getting health insurance provided by their work? Or don't the working class deserve healthcare?


The majority of the working class got screwed.


By Obamacare? How were they doing before?


They had healthcare provided by their employer that a very low deductible small co-payments and as much as 80/20 coverage.

Now it's a huge monthly premium, a gigantic deductible and 50/50 coverage at best.

The only poor people obamacare helps are those who are so extremely poor, they qualify for a subsidy.

My dad's cousin purposely stays dirt poor to get a deal on healthcare. Before all he did was work as a costomer service operator (the person people yell at over the phone).



Last edited by EzraS on 13 Nov 2017, 2:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

auntblabby
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13 Nov 2017, 2:29 am

EzraS wrote:
Really? I think people working in the low end of manufacturing, retail and service industries constitute the working class. People who have jobs that don't require a college degree or even a high school diploma in many cases. People who live paycheck to paycheck. It seems like to you, anyone who rents a half way decent apartment and drives an economy car and makes around 2k per month are the middle class. I guess, I'm not sure. But it seems like you think only the absolute indigent deserve a break and everyone else owes them. And that the government should force mandates on people, while you bemoan facism.

people working in the low end of manufacturing, retail and service rarely got benefits with their mcjobs in the first place. I have never said only the indigent deserve social services, far from it. that is the case right now [street people getting tertiary medical care without having to pay for it, while the working poor are left to suffer or suffer a lifetime of ruined finances. hang together or separately. I am for the working poor. somebody who clears, as you said, 2k/month is hardly working poor, that is LOWER MIDDLE CLASS. real working class folk lack job benefits or even regular hours. regular working class nowadays can't even describe their own roof over their own head, they more often than not must couchsurf with friends, or sleep in their cars. THAT is today's working class, not somebody with a regular gig with benefits. the "working class" people you are talking about existed in ralph kramden's day, but not for the last few decades here. indigent are those who lack even what little the real working class have. homeless AND carless are the indigent. but it seems me and thee will never agree on this or anything else.



auntblabby
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13 Nov 2017, 2:30 am

EzraS wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
EzraS wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Did everyone like the old healthcare plan? What about people who were just over the threshold for Medicaid but weren't getting health insurance provided by their work? Or don't the working class deserve healthcare?


The majority of the working class got screwed.


By Obamacare? How were they doing before?


They had healthcare provided by their employer that a very low deductible small co-payments and as much as 80/20 coverage. Now it's a huge monthly premium, a gigantic deductible and 50/50 coverage at best.

I was a [entry level] civil servant and I never had that. the working class you're describing sound like my bosses of olde.