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b9
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29 Mar 2017, 12:45 am

Dox47 wrote:
b9 wrote:

ahhh whatever.... i don't give a rats arse... you should wait for someone else to say something rather than talk to my deaf ears.


I know you like to use that cop out, but you keep replying, so obviously you're at least paying some amount of attention. More importantly, you've provided me with the opportunity to address an argument that I've been meaning to, so the next time someone else brings it up, I can point to this exchange as an example of how I've already explained why our cops are wonky and that guns are not the reason.


i am not using anything as a "cop out" (ironically pardon the pun).

i entered the thread with an "off the cuff" (pardon the pun) phrase that contained no opinion other than the "wittiness" of the comment.

in some sense i guess that people are less likely to enter altercations with strangers in the USA because you never know who you're dealing with.

in australia, some hot headed adrenaline saturated young men just get out of their cars and punch each other up over some trivial road rage incident.

in america, you would be insane to invite an argument from someone who can just blow your head off and drive on.

so there is like an unspoken "mexican standoff" situation between citizens over there whereas in australia, all you can expect to get from coming off worst in an altercation is a busted face (unless they are maniacs who keep going and kill you).

i have used guns before.
i had a winchester 22 lever action rifle when i was a kid and i used to go pig shooting with my father on our 48,000 hectare property in far western NSW.

we had thousands of wild sheep that lived on the property, and while we never sheared them or benefitted from them financially, we never the less found many sheep just sitting on the ground and they wouldn't run away as we approached, and when we prodded them and they got up, it became apparent that their belly had been slashed and their intestines had been eaten by wild pigs.
they just sat there until they died, so we had to shoot them.

it made me angry with the pigs, and so i saw it as justifiable and fun to hunt them.

my dad had a blitz buggy he bought after ww2 (great truck) and there was no passenger seat, and the roof was open on the passenger side and dad had a gun mount (a modified boat oar holder (don't know what you call them in the states but here we call them "rollicks)) and one day we cam accross an old huge wild pig and i was standing up with the gun in the mount, and dad stopped in order for me to shoot him.
dad had a 270 rifle that uses a bullet with a 303 "charger" and the recoil was too much for me, so i had to use it mounted in the gun mount.

the pig seemed almost tame and looked me in the eye as i was looking down the barrel at him, and i could not shoot him.
from that time on, i just thought "let nature take it's course"

i know if you live in canada or something where grizzly bears can invade your home that you need powerful guns to protect yourself.

anyway that's my story about my experience with guns (i was a good shot)



sly279
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29 Mar 2017, 1:37 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
All the time I hear Americans say they need guns for "protection", presumably from other people with guns, muggers, etc.

What I don't understand is, if an armed robber has his gun pointed at the civ, how does the civ expect to draw his gun from his holster and fire it in less time then it takes for the robber to pull the trigger?

Another one I've heard is that they expect to use their guns against assailants armed only with knives. It would be very convenient for the gun owner if criminals were armed only with knives but that's not realistic.

Another one I've heard a few times from gun loving Americans is that they need a gun to overthrow their corrupt government. This one baffles me since said government possesses tanks and other armored vehicles. I don't believe small arms fire could penetrate tank.


Situational awareness means before they get that close you're aware of them. Guy acting suspiciously and walking towards you, so you bring your hand to where your gun is and be ready while continuing watching them. If they get closer you tell them to stay back, closer still and they refuse to follow directions you draw and tell them your armed, most cases this is enough. You'd then call the police and report the whole thing. Tons of cases of this preventing crimes. Other cases you draw and fire quick. Such as when a vet pretended to trip and drew his gun and shot robbers who were taking hostages to a back room to likely kill them.

The anti always asume the bad guy snuck up on you and has s gun to the back of your head, yes in that rare case it's hopeless. But people who carry wouldn't let it get that close.

Most the military would be helping to overthrow the illegal treasonous government.

RetroGamer87 wrote:
I've been talking to a few gun lovers on the internet. Some of them seem to expect that all of their assailants will be armed only with knives even though guns are readily available and some of them seem to expect their assailants will politely stand still without firing their guns while the gun lover shoots them one at a time.

It's almost as though they think guns can block bullets from other guns. A gun is an effective offensive weapon but a very poor defensive weapon.


Guns cost $150 up. A knife is $2 and up, and not as controlled. Robbery with a knife also carries less time then one with a gun. Lots of mugging are done with knifes.



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29 Mar 2017, 1:40 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
I've been talking to a few gun lovers on the internet. Some of them seem to expect that all of their assailants will be armed only with knives even though guns are readily available and some of them seem to expect their assailants will politely stand still without firing their guns while the gun lover shoots them one at a time.

It's almost as though they think guns can block bullets from other guns. A gun is an effective offensive weapon but a very poor defensive weapon.


you are strawmanning like crazy

Do you lock your door at night? What would you do if somebody had a gun on you? Anything? Not everybody is resigned to being a victim. It's a great defensive weapon because it's a deterrent, not hard to understand.


It's not strawmanning if they actually said it.

What would I do if someone had a gun on me? I would certainly not reach into my holster and draw a gun because I would be on the ground dead before I had a chance to use it.

I would be willing to do anything to defend myself but only if it was effective.

So your the type who'd dig your own grave knowing they going kill you. I'd rather fight back and have a chance then guaranteed to die. Yeah if someone's about to shoot me they'll probably do so if I draw but better to try then do nothing, so I'd knock them down a and draw, but again I'd not let anyone get close enough to do so.



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29 Mar 2017, 2:56 am

Campin_Cat wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
It's people I worry about but I don't think people need help.

Do you mean, like, that people can think / do mean, bad, evil things, withOUT the help of a gun?

I think it would be harder for them to impulsively kill me without a gun.


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29 Mar 2017, 2:59 am

Campin_Cat wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Which group of gun carriers breaks less laws? All gun carriers? Law abiding gun carriers? I suppose the law abiding members of any group wouldn't break any laws by definition.

I think this goes back to what I was saying, before, about there being, basically, three types of "gun-toting" groups (gun-culture people, newbies, and criminals), and my money's on the gun-culture group; because, IMO, they follow laws, to a T, if, for no other reason, than because they don't want their guns taken-away from them.

RetroGamer87 wrote:
I'd be worried about the gun carriers you carry a gun to protect yourself from. I'd still be worried to be around those guys even if I had a gun. I wouldn't be scared of my gun, I'd be scared of theirs.

There's no reason to be scared of the other guy / other guy's gun, if you have trained, properly / formally, on the care, safety, and shooting of a gun, if you're a newbie and are serious about it.

RetroGamer87 wrote:
It worked for us, it probably wouldn't work for you guys as you have more guns in circulation to begin with and you have land boarders.

That's exactly right.

RetroGamer87 wrote:
I wasn't so much concerned about the rates for rifles but for all firearms. They make up about two thirds.

Yeah, but see, that's the problem, though. If people wanna cry about handguns, then they'd be saying, something; because, just from the first column of your link, long guns are used in only about a THIRD of the total firearm homicides (roughly); so, if handguns are used twice as often, why isn't anybody cryin' about THEM? I'll tell you why..... Because whenever a nutcake shoots-up a mall / school / movie theatre / whatever, they talk about the guns, used, on TV (and, if they actually show PICTURES of the shooter's stash, that garners even MORE of a "Oh, the horror" from all the Chicken Littles, in the audience, because it's, like, a natural brain response, or whatever, to take-in the biggest thing, in the picture [a long gun]), and then everybody starts cryin'-about getting rid of "those big guns"----when, in actuality, most of those guns are NO DIFFERENT from a regular hunting rifle, that have been "dressed-up" to LOOK scary, so Joe Schmoe can pretend he's G.I. Joe, on weekends!!

RetroGamer87 wrote:
Without guns the other third would happen the same and some the other two thirds would happen by other means. A cold blooded murder will proceed no matter what but slower methods of killing are harder to pull off on impulse.

Yes, I totally agree with your first sentence----as for the second sentence..... I'm not so sure I agree with that one----for instance, I've known-of more than one person who has stabbed-to-death another person, with a butcher knife from the kitchen drawer, when there was a gun in the nightstand (meaning, because you said "harder to pull-off, on impulse", that's not necessarily true----ANYTHING, practically, can be used as a weapon, and on impulse, people grab whatever's most near).
actually it's cause the anti gun people see rifles as an easier first target . They want to ban all guns especially handguns, but handguns are primarily a personal defense gun. Most Americans own handguns, they'll extremely popular. People from all walks own them. Someone ok with banning ar 15, owns handguns, people supporting a lot of gun control own handguns. It's a non starter, they tried in the past it failed terribly. So first its assault weapons (note many awb proposed included simi auto handguns), then they call hunting rifles sniper rifles and say those need to be banned. Leaving us revolvers and lever actions until the next push. It's all. Ind games. They invented assault weapons to make people think of full auto m60s after they got corrected on calling them assault rifles. Most non gun people think they'll trying to ban machine guns not simi auto rifles. When explained most are like what why would we ban simi auto guns. The anti prey in the lack of knowledge of 2/3 of the nation.



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29 Mar 2017, 3:14 am

ZenDen wrote:
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If it became a rebellion it would most likely be the government's hired guns that trigger it with scenarios similar to what they did at Waco in 1993 and Ruby Ridge the year before that. There is a point where civil obedience gets pushed to the breaking point and ignites widespread civil disobedience. The nation is probably considerably less stable now than in the early 90's and won't change much in the foreseeable future. This creates a climate where the dick in the hornet's nest scenario I mentioned in my last post becomes more plausible.

If my preference of dying on my feet rather than live on my knees is inflammatory BS then so be it because I am what I am.

What about shooting an innocent guard? Who is this guard and what is he guarding? Attacking from cover is common in warfare and has been for a few centuries in America and where American troops have been involved. What's your real American method, an old west style gunfight on the street with both parties drawing and firing Colt SAA's at each other?

Image


Btw; please start using the quote tools. Makes things much tidier and easier to read.


Quote:
What about shooting an innocent guard? Who is this guard and what is he guarding?


His name is Joe Brisson, you don't know him but he lives 2 blocks from you. His two little girls are the ones playing out in front all the time. He's had a hard time finding a job so this is what lead him to enlisting in the National Guard.

The warehouse he guards is full of food supplies and a recent shipment of AR type weapons. Tomorrow, Thursday, he was supposed to take some "leave time" to take the kids roller skating after school. And you'll attack this innocent from your foul cover? And then show us your pride? This is not the way humans live.

He was not planning to kill you. There is no "other" in this fight. It's one American killing another....for reasons of pride? This is not your enemy but in frustration you'll kill him because you can't get at your true enemy? Poor choices my friend. Use your head.


The German private on th beach had a family too and he was drafted and forced to serve. So what. Sad but such is the reality in war. That guard is protecting the weapons and food of the troops out killing Americans civilians. Wrong side wrong place. Most people aren't evil. We killed thousands of Vietnamese fighting for their home and family for a stupid ideal of domino effect. Hell most. Roth Koreans are just poor bastards forced to serve, but better believe if their friends start bombing sk they'll be killed just as well.

My friends are/we're in the military and in a event such as government taking guns they'd run off or turn themselves in to be jailed rather then follow unconstitutional orders in violation of the constitution they swore to defend with their life. War is harsh. Guys who stormed the beaches are friends with the guys who fired the machine guns killing their friends. They don't hold it against them, but rest assured they'd shot them if they'd ran into each other in war. That's the thing about war. No ones bad guy. Most are just good guys found on opposite sides of each other.
Everyone has a family and backstory, a planned future. Criminals have families too. Is what it is. I hope it won't ever come to bloodshed. It won't be pretty. They're be revenge killings on both sides. Thousands if not millions will die. The USA that comes out of it if it does won't be the same. But 100 million gun owners not just surrender and walk off to reeducation camps willingly like anti gun people believe we will. Many current and ex military will fight. Navy seals train to take down countries. Our power grid weak. This country will colaspe into arnarcy after few weeks without power and supplies. Ex military training people could bring this nation to a standstill.the gov trained them how to. They've gen been trained how to train locals into guerrilla units. It'll be Afghanistan all over. We trained them to. They used our training against us.



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29 Mar 2017, 3:16 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
It's people I worry about but I don't think people need help.

Do you mean, like, that people can think / do mean, bad, evil things, withOUT the help of a gun?

I think it would be harder for them to impulsively kill me without a gun.

Not if their stronger, near heavy or sharp objects, push you down and you fall on something, hit you with a car. Just recently a lady almost ran down a lady and kids cause Walmart would t take back her stolen $5 batteries.



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29 Mar 2017, 8:03 am

Jacoby wrote:
Image

Jacoby circa age 8 with my dad's gun 8O

the hair is incredible

Awww, I LOVE that, SO MUCH!! Your hair was FABULOUS----that's the second thing I noticed!!

Once-upon-a-time there was a picture of me, with a long gun----I had it to my side (butt on the ground)----I was, like, 10.





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29 Mar 2017, 11:37 am

Raptor wrote:
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Why let more bad people get guns? Because they can? Because it's in the consitition? :roll:

Yeah, that annoying constitution that obstructs the government from walking all over us worse than they already do. Have you ever read the constitution?

Have you? there's this bit at the start, says something about life and liberty. comes before the 2nd amendment too! almost as if it was.... more important..
Raptor wrote:
Quote:
Imagine if gun control laws were in place and helped! Many many innocents wouldn't die. Crime would be down and much more.

Refer back to the DOJ report. Just to tell you where I stand, even if the trend were up I'd still tell you that freedom has it's price.
yah, and that price is "i get to keep my metal security blanket, who cares how many people lose their freedom"

sly279 wrote:
Guns cost $150 up. A knife is $2 and up, and not as controlled. Robbery with a knife also carries less time then one with a gun. Lots of mugging are done with knifes.
you can't kill someone with a knife from 40 feet away.



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29 Mar 2017, 1:48 pm

Here's some reasons people got shot by 'responsible gun owners' this January(the blurbs are written in 1st person to summarise events):


Quote:
Source

A guest at my son’s New Year’s Eve party got drunk and wouldn’t leave, so I shot him dead. (TX, 1/1)
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.2932133

I got out my 9mm handgun to show it to my son, but I unintentionally shot him in the stomach. (CT, 1/7)
http://www.journalinquirer.com/towns/so ... 9536b.html

I work at a butcher shop, where we received a live buffalo to process. I was up on a ladder with a gun trying to shoot it, but it bumped the ladder and I shot myself in the leg. (KS, 1/13)
https://www.hayspost.com/2017/01/13/kan ... a-buffalo/

I got in a fight with a guy, so I grabbed my gun and fired at him. My shot went through a wall and killed a woman in the next room. (TN, 1/14)
https://www.facebook.com/DunawayForDA/p ... =3&theater

Some guy dinged my door in a parking lot and we started arguing about it. We both had guns, so I shot him first. (TX, 1/17)
http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/haltom-c ... /386764042

My brother was arguing with me about which one of us treats Grandma right, so I shot him. (TX, 1/19)
http://news4sanantonio.com/news/local/p ... randmother

I was arguing with my stepson about chilidogs and I said I was gonna shoot him. So my wife hid my gun. Then he kept arguing with me so I got my OTHER gun out and shot him dead. (FL, 1/23)
http://www.mynews13.com/content/news/cf ... oting.html

My neighbor was yelling at me because I kicked her dog, so I shot her dead. (TX, 1/24)
http://www.khou.com/news/crime/woman-di ... /392198837

I accidentally ran over a dog with my car. The guy who owned the dog was really mad about it and was yelling at me, so I shot him dead. (AL, 1/25)
http://www.wsfa.com/story/34382101/argu ... osa-county

Somebody in another car flashed their bright headlights at me (I was driving with my brights on), so I turned around, followed him and shot him. (NC, 1/28)
http://abc13.com/news/man-shot-during-a ... s/1730152/
gosh golly I sure feel safer with such shining examples owning firearms :roll:



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29 Mar 2017, 4:46 pm

Fugu wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Quote:
Why let more bad people get guns? Because they can? Because it's in the consitition? :roll:

Yeah, that annoying constitution that obstructs the government from walking all over us worse than they already do. Have you ever read the constitution?

Have you? there's this bit at the start, says something about life and liberty. comes before the 2nd amendment too! almost as if it was.... more important..
Raptor wrote:
Quote:
Imagine if gun control laws were in place and helped! Many many innocents wouldn't die. Crime would be down and much more.

Refer back to the DOJ report. Just to tell you where I stand, even if the trend were up I'd still tell you that freedom has it's price.
yah, and that price is "i get to keep my metal security blanket, who cares how many people lose their freedom"


Ya know, I've started putting together a collection of desperate and off the wall replies from the antis in these gunz-r-bad threads and this one might just make the cut as one of the desperate ones. The list will be long and I'll have to winnow it down some but this could be on the final one. I'll start using it as appropriate in future gunz-r-bad threads or maybe even start a thread with that list itself.


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29 Mar 2017, 4:52 pm

Raptor wrote:
Ya know, I've started putting together a collection of desperate and off the wall replies from the antis in these gunz-r-bad threads and this one might just make the cut as one of the desperate ones. The list will be long and I'll have to winnow it down some but this could be on the final one. I'll start using it as appropriate in future gunz-r-bad threads or maybe even start a thread with that list itself.
good to know you consider raising the topic of people dying thanks to your hobby a desperate non-sequitur. thanks for demonstrating you're a fleshy shell over a compassionless void Raptor.



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29 Mar 2017, 5:15 pm

Fugu wrote:
Here's some reasons people got shot by 'responsible gun owners' this January(the blurbs are written in 1st person to summarise events):


Quote:
Source

A guest at my son’s New Year’s Eve party got drunk and wouldn’t leave, so I shot him dead. (TX, 1/1)
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... -1.2932133

I got out my 9mm handgun to show it to my son, but I unintentionally shot him in the stomach. (CT, 1/7)
http://www.journalinquirer.com/towns/so ... 9536b.html

I work at a butcher shop, where we received a live buffalo to process. I was up on a ladder with a gun trying to shoot it, but it bumped the ladder and I shot myself in the leg. (KS, 1/13)
https://www.hayspost.com/2017/01/13/kan ... a-buffalo/

I got in a fight with a guy, so I grabbed my gun and fired at him. My shot went through a wall and killed a woman in the next room. (TN, 1/14)
https://www.facebook.com/DunawayForDA/p ... =3&theater

Some guy dinged my door in a parking lot and we started arguing about it. We both had guns, so I shot him first. (TX, 1/17)
http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/haltom-c ... /386764042

My brother was arguing with me about which one of us treats Grandma right, so I shot him. (TX, 1/19)
http://news4sanantonio.com/news/local/p ... randmother

I was arguing with my stepson about chilidogs and I said I was gonna shoot him. So my wife hid my gun. Then he kept arguing with me so I got my OTHER gun out and shot him dead. (FL, 1/23)
http://www.mynews13.com/content/news/cf ... oting.html

My neighbor was yelling at me because I kicked her dog, so I shot her dead. (TX, 1/24)
http://www.khou.com/news/crime/woman-di ... /392198837

I accidentally ran over a dog with my car. The guy who owned the dog was really mad about it and was yelling at me, so I shot him dead. (AL, 1/25)
http://www.wsfa.com/story/34382101/argu ... osa-county

Somebody in another car flashed their bright headlights at me (I was driving with my brights on), so I turned around, followed him and shot him. (NC, 1/28)
http://abc13.com/news/man-shot-during-a ... s/1730152/
gosh golly I sure feel safer with such shining examples owning firearms :roll:


And in a nation with a population of 324,700,000 absolutely no one else died or were injured in January except for these 10 that were shot. The little fish just keeps digging his hole deeper and deeper. I know I shouldn't feed the +r011 but it's like popping balloons with a cigarette.


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29 Mar 2017, 5:47 pm

Raptor wrote:
And in a nation with a population of 324,700,000 absolutely no one else died or were injured in January except for these 10 that were shot. The little fish just keeps digging his hole deeper and deeper. I know I shouldn't feed the +r011 but it's like popping balloons with a cigarette.
wrong again(surprised? i'm not)
210 people on jan 1st alone.
http://www.vox.com/2017/1/5/14168440/20 ... nce-deaths

compassionless void: check
can't be arsed to post anything but white noise: check



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29 Mar 2017, 6:03 pm

Fugu wrote:
Raptor wrote:
And in a nation with a population of 324,700,000 absolutely no one else died or were injured in January except for these 10 that were shot. The little fish just keeps digging his hole deeper and deeper. I know I shouldn't feed the +r011 but it's like popping balloons with a cigarette.
wrong again(surprised? i'm not)
210 people on jan 1st alone.
http://www.vox.com/2017/1/5/14168440/20 ... nce-deaths

I figure I alone shot at least 15 on that day so that's part of it. I always kick off the New Year with a people hunt. Hannibal Lecter gives me top dollar per pound for fresh meat. :D

Quote:
compassionless void: check
can't be arsed to post anything but white noise: check

Yes, being a conservative I am hardhearted and evil so compassion is definitely out of the question.
Compassion is for wussies.


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29 Mar 2017, 6:09 pm

Raptor wrote:
Yes, being a conservative I am hardhearted and evil so compassion is definitely out of the question.
Compassion is for wussies.
if by conservative you mean 'idiot neocon' instead of the mr rogers conservatism of the 50s, sure why not