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feral botanist
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03 Apr 2017, 12:12 am

BaalChatzaf wrote:
feral botanist wrote:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/03/31/the-political-walls-are-closing-in-on-donald-trump.html

Not 100 days into the Trump presidency, one thing is abundantly clear: it is completely unsustainable as it is operating today.

There are even rumblings in the seams of Washington that Trump may not last the summer, including Republican consultant Michael Steele, the former RNC chairman, reportedly telling clients to prepare for President Pence.

Indeed, something fundamental seemed to shift in the zeitgeist this week with General Michael Flynn’s Hail Mary offer to testify about Russiagate in exchange for immunity. The Senate intelligence community has already turned down Flynn’s offer, and it’s hard to imagine the House committee, led by the thoroughly compromised Devin Nunes, having the political capital to say yes. For the FBI to agree, Flynn would have to offer up someone bigger than him to make it worth the agency’s while. One wonders who that could be: Paul Manafort? He’s been around the political block much longer than Flynn and knows where more bodies are buried. Wouldn’t he be a better immunity target if you’re an elected Republican? Donald Trump? What would Flynn claim Trump personally did to advance Russia’s interference in our election, other than dutifully repeat Kremlin talking points, which we already know? Does he have some proof that Trump took a bribe? Broke a law? Made an incriminating phone call?


do you really believe that a Republican controlled House will vote a bill of Impeachment? I don't.



I doubt they will, but who knows, they may want to dump trump in awhile.

I think it would be stupid of the democrats to push for his removal. Tjey should just stoke the conflict between him and repiblicans.



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03 Apr 2017, 12:19 am

feral botanist wrote:
BaalChatzaf wrote:
feral botanist wrote:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/03/31/the-political-walls-are-closing-in-on-donald-trump.html

Not 100 days into the Trump presidency, one thing is abundantly clear: it is completely unsustainable as it is operating today.

There are even rumblings in the seams of Washington that Trump may not last the summer, including Republican consultant Michael Steele, the former RNC chairman, reportedly telling clients to prepare for President Pence.

Indeed, something fundamental seemed to shift in the zeitgeist this week with General Michael Flynn’s Hail Mary offer to testify about Russiagate in exchange for immunity. The Senate intelligence community has already turned down Flynn’s offer, and it’s hard to imagine the House committee, led by the thoroughly compromised Devin Nunes, having the political capital to say yes. For the FBI to agree, Flynn would have to offer up someone bigger than him to make it worth the agency’s while. One wonders who that could be: Paul Manafort? He’s been around the political block much longer than Flynn and knows where more bodies are buried. Wouldn’t he be a better immunity target if you’re an elected Republican? Donald Trump? What would Flynn claim Trump personally did to advance Russia’s interference in our election, other than dutifully repeat Kremlin talking points, which we already know? Does he have some proof that Trump took a bribe? Broke a law? Made an incriminating phone call?


do you really believe that a Republican controlled House will vote a bill of Impeachment? I don't.



I doubt they will, but who knows, they may want to dump trump in awhile.

I think it would be stupid of the democrats to push for his removal. Tjey should just stoke the conflict between him and repiblicans.


Prove that Trump was conspiring with the Russians to win the election, then House Republicans won't have a choice to impeach the Cheeto, or face losing their seats in a Democratic landslide.


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03 Apr 2017, 2:09 am

Campin_Cat wrote:
IMO, the point IS, he is consciously NOT putting himself into a situation where he or the woman could find themselves having an attraction for the other


Having an attraction to another is not that big a deal. I guess what I find pathetic about Pence is that his avoidance of being alone with a woman shows that he can't handle his feelings of attraction. Just because you feel something, doesn't mean you have to act on it, but I guess Pence is admitting that he doesn't have any self-control.



feral botanist
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03 Apr 2017, 7:54 am

androbot01 wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
IMO, the point IS, he is consciously NOT putting himself into a situation where he or the woman could find themselves having an attraction for the other


Having an attraction to another is not that big a deal. I guess what I find pathetic about Pence is that his avoidance of being alone with a woman shows that he can't handle his feelings of attraction. Just because you feel something, doesn't mean you have to act on it, but I guess Pence is admitting that he doesn't have any self-control.



In many cultures that dont allow women to be alone with a man not her family, they often blame the women for the mens desires, "she made me desire her!"

Talk about juvenile...now where did I see something like this lately?



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03 Apr 2017, 8:57 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Sleeping in the same bed with a woman who is not my wife, or sharing a bath, is clearly inappropriate, and so something I'd prefer not doing, even though I know I, for one, would not have sex with this hypothetical woman. But that is worlds apart from just having dinner with her.


Do you know why it feels inappropriate if there is no chance you would break your vows? It's just washing yourself or sleeping after all.


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feral botanist
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03 Apr 2017, 9:04 am

Mikah wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Sleeping in the same bed with a woman who is not my wife, or sharing a bath, is clearly inappropriate, and so something I'd prefer not doing, even though I know I, for one, would not have sex with this hypothetical woman. But that is worlds apart from just having dinner with her.


Do you know why it feels inappropriate if there is no chance you would break your vows? It's just washing yourself or sleeping after all.



No equivalents.

Eating is an open social activity, sleeping and bathing are private.

You would eat in a public park, but you wouldnt shower naked in one.



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03 Apr 2017, 9:09 am

Because society deems it so....and for good reason!

People in ALL societies value their privacy.



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03 Apr 2017, 9:43 am

It's not equivalent no, but the feeling of impropriety comes from the same place.


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feral botanist
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03 Apr 2017, 9:48 am

Mikah wrote:
It's not equivalent no, but the feeling of impropriety comes from the same place.


I dont feel any impropriety for eating a meal with a woman.

I find it strange that someone would. It would seem to indicate, someone who only sees women as sexual objects and not as a human being.



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03 Apr 2017, 11:54 am

Chronos wrote:
Mikah wrote:
feral botanist wrote:
I am with you on pence, his refusal to eat with single women smacks of fundamentalist muslims.


I really don't get the opposition sometimes. Of all the things to make a fuss about, this one I really do not understand. I would file this behaviour under "basic respect for your wife's feelings" and "little things that make a marriage sustainable" and people are acting like he wears a barbed wire garter around his leg.


As a female in a male dominated field, I can tell you that being subjected to social exclusions by associates because of one's sex, is absolutely one of the reasons women often struggle to advance beyond middle management in male dominated white collar fields.

Concerning Pence's refusal to eat a meal alone with a woman other than his wife, it's difficult to pass judgement on this without further information. Does he have business meals at all? If so, does he decline women flat out who wish to have business meals with him, or does he devise a work around? For example, bring his wife or another colleague? Because of his policy, do men have more access to him than women?

Concerning his policy, is this something he does merely to appease his wife? For example, is she insecure or is it she who thinks it is in appropriate for him to dine with another woman alone? Is it something he does to prevent people from accusing him of infidelity? Is it something he does to prevent himself from committing infidelity? Do women exist in a place in his mind such that he thinks it's inappropriate to have dinner alone with a woman who is not his wife? For example, does he view all women as potential sex partners? Is it some combination of these or some other reason I've overlooked?

I would be curious to know, as personally, if I were married, I would not have a problem with my husband meeting another woman for a business dinner in a public place, provided he tell me ahead of time.


These are all good questions. I can absolutely see how this policy could hinder a woman's ability to advance if he didn't make accommodations to ensure equal access.



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03 Apr 2017, 12:20 pm

Mikah wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Sleeping in the same bed with a woman who is not my wife, or sharing a bath, is clearly inappropriate, and so something I'd prefer not doing, even though I know I, for one, would not have sex with this hypothetical woman. But that is worlds apart from just having dinner with her.


Do you know why it feels inappropriate if there is no chance you would break your vows? It's just washing yourself or sleeping after all.


What feral botanist said.


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03 Apr 2017, 1:39 pm

Sleeping with somebody, or taking a bath with somebody, is much more intimate than eating dinner with somebody.

There's much more bodily contact----and the potential for much more bodily contact.

There's no question this is true for the majority of societies around the world---whether deep in the Amazon jungle or based in cities such as London and Paris.



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03 Apr 2017, 1:54 pm

feral botanist wrote:
Mikah wrote:
It's not equivalent no, but the feeling of impropriety comes from the same place.


I dont feel any impropriety for eating a meal with a woman.

I find it strange that someone would. It would seem to indicate, someone who only sees women as sexual objects and not as a human being.


Someone could say exactly that about the bathing/sleeping hypothetical.


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feral botanist
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03 Apr 2017, 1:57 pm

Mikah wrote:
feral botanist wrote:
Mikah wrote:
It's not equivalent no, but the feeling of impropriety comes from the same place.


I dont feel any impropriety for eating a meal with a woman.

I find it strange that someone would. It would seem to indicate, someone who only sees women as sexual objects and not as a human being.


Someone could say exactly that about the bathing/sleeping hypothetical.



Im sorry, I dont understand your statement.



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03 Apr 2017, 1:59 pm

To be honest, I find Pence's position on this to be rather extreme.



Mikah
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03 Apr 2017, 2:04 pm

feral botanist wrote:
Im sorry, I dont understand your statement.


If you or Kraichgauer refused to bathe or sleep in the same bed with a woman you were not married to, some bright spark could say it would seem to indicate, someone who only sees women as sexual objects and not as a human being. The argument works just as well.


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