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techstepgenr8tion
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16 Apr 2017, 11:43 am

All I can say to this - I really hope this crap stays contained to California. If ANTIFA's getting to the point of throwing fireworks, rocks, and bricks at anyone they disagree with and if they police stand down vigilantism is going to be the fallback (as you see in the top video). I really have to hope that with this devolving to fist-fights we might have some meaningful dialog on the official level as to what's breaking down on the law enforcement side, what the police need to be able to keep groups separated when it comes to this, etc. so that it doesn't happen again. IMHO if these people really start acting like children and worst comes to worst we might need to think about having Blackwater security for political events.



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kitesandtrainsandcats
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16 Apr 2017, 12:04 pm

Knowing little about it I went looking. Found this:
Opinion: Berkeley protesters just fell into the most obvious trap imaginable. Again
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion- ... story.html

Quote:
East Bay protests are often overrun by relatively small numbers of black bloc anarchists, who hijack the message and the intent of these events. Imagine the peaceful protesters anticipating that would happen, and making clear contingency plans for it. Imagine the bigot strolling out into a near-empty plaza, confronted by his own irrelevance. Imagine students moving far away from the black bloc when it became violent, and holding an equally powerful show of nonviolent disgust, rather than gaping and building the anarchists’ crowd. Imagine another student group hosting a well-attended speech on the history of justice movements at UC Berkeley to coincide with his event. In any other scenario, the bigot would more than likely have gone on being the same fragile, cold-hearted creature he was when he arrived, with the same number of devotees. After tonight’s actions, he has many more.

The alt-right and conservative media will slice and dice this footage to show the moral depravity of progressives. Conservative politicians will use this to ends progressives would never endorse; they will make innocent people suffer while citing these acts of extraordinary naiveté. It is the most obvious trap imaginable, and we fell into it. Again.


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techstepgenr8tion
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16 Apr 2017, 12:39 pm

I think whoever wrote that made a really big mistake in saying 'we' as if claiming that ANTIFA is somehow aligned with their own approved ideology - that or they're nutty enough to be in a political wing of something with similar ideas to what ANTIFA would espouse.

Probably just better to say have reasoned debate, if you don't like someone's rallies try to get them into a reasoned debate so that their intellectual vacuousness is exposed. I really don't know how that logic is assailable unless its a postmodernist who considers logic itself a baseless or groundless tool for oppression, at which point we're looking at a religion of nihilism and solipsism that's probably best handled through psychiatry.


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16 Apr 2017, 12:44 pm

The reporter asked a good question.

Why have these pro-Trump rallies near the very liberal Berkley campus?



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16 Apr 2017, 1:02 pm

But they aren't "nutters" -- they are organized, violent, Leftist guerrillas, who earlier this year attacked the nation's capital:


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16 Apr 2017, 1:16 pm

What has happened to American people?

Everyone has gone full-on psycho, one side is as bad as the other here.

They aren't protesting for what they believe in, just to annoy the other side, it's all very childish.



techstepgenr8tion
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16 Apr 2017, 1:41 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
The reporter asked a good question.

Why have these pro-Trump rallies near the very liberal Berkley campus?

I think a better question might be asked as well here - ie. do we want places of so-called higher learning where particular opinions meet with violence from their opposition? Another question perhaps as well; if we green-light this type of intimidation here in how many other places are we automatically green-lighting it?


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16 Apr 2017, 1:44 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
The reporter asked a good question.

Why have these pro-Trump rallies near the very liberal Berkley campus?


Why not?



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16 Apr 2017, 1:56 pm

Oh great!



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16 Apr 2017, 2:18 pm

The start of that first video is intriguing. For the first few seconds there's just people everywhere beating the s**t out of each other. And then it just stops. Obviously there's still stuff going on at the front where we can't see and a brick comes flying in close to where the camera guy is, but I wonder what made them stop beating each other up at the start.

EDIT - Second viewing it looks like the mob caught a few of the other side and laid in some hits on them but were happy with that and not going any further.



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16 Apr 2017, 4:08 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I think whoever wrote that made a really big mistake in saying 'we' as if claiming that ANTIFA is somehow aligned with their own approved ideology -
Are you talking about the article I posted? I just looked at it again and I'm not seeing that in there, so you are probably going to have to quote where it is.

Now, since an author's ideology has been mentioned, I also looked up the author of the article I posted.
She writes stuff like this;
Opinion: One group is responsible for America’s culture of violence, and it isn’t cops, black Americans, Muslims or rednecks. It’s men
http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion- ... story.html

And for an occupation does;
Quote:
Melissa Batchelor Warnke is a writer and erstwhile editor. She studies investigative reporting at the UC Berkeley Graduate School of Journalism, where she is a Dean's Merit Fellow and recipient of the Randy Shilts Memorial Award for Exceptional Reporting. | Melissa is a contributing writer to the Los Angeles Times' opinion page, covering politics, violence, and gender. Her writing for them is available here: http://goo.gl/MlSWra. | Her writing has appeared in the Los Angeles Times, the San Francisco Chronicle, VICE, The Daily Beast, Pacific Standard, U.S. News & World Report, The Hairpin, BKLYNR, and other places. She has been an editor at The Morning News and The Rumpus. | She has been named a Fulbright Scholar, a Kathryn Wasserman Davis Fellow for Peace, a Journalism and Women Symposium (JAWS) Emerging Journalist Fellow, and a StartingBloc Social Innovation Fellow, among other honors. | Prior to becoming a journalist, Melissa worked as an anti-genocide community organizer at the Save Darfur Coalition, a human rights grantmaker in the Open Society Foundations' Africa Office, and an assistant in the Google Creative Lab.

https://journalism.berkeley.edu/student ... sa_warnke/


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techstepgenr8tion
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16 Apr 2017, 4:19 pm

kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I think whoever wrote that made a really big mistake in saying 'we' as if claiming that ANTIFA is somehow aligned with their own approved ideology -
Are you talking about the article I posted? I just looked at it again and I'm not seeing that in there, so you are probably going to have to quote where it is.

Admittedly I didn't read the article, just the blurb you posted and I was referring to that.

Read the very last line of the blurb you posted up front. I was referring to the comment "It is the most obvious trap imaginable, and we fell into it. Again.". I really don't think any sane person, unless they're an AntiFa themselves, wants to say 'we' in a way that encompasses AntiFa. I'm not saying she is that, I just don't think it was a wise choice of words.


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16 Apr 2017, 4:25 pm

Anarchy is none of these things.

However, if you want fascism, you will get this.


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16 Apr 2017, 4:28 pm

QuillAlba wrote:
What has happened to American people?

Everyone has gone full-on psycho, one side is as bad as the other here.

They aren't protesting for what they believe in, just to annoy the other side, it's all very childish.


This. What saddens me is that rational people can't see that they are being dragged into it. Why can't people of all political persuasions just dismiss these small groups for what they are, extremist groups at both far ends of the political spectrum. When less extreme folk start trying to use these incidents as a way of generalising about everyone that holds a different political view to them then they themselves have walked right into the trap.



techstepgenr8tion
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16 Apr 2017, 5:02 pm

Biscuitman wrote:
Why can't people of all political persuasions just dismiss these small groups for what they are, extremist groups at both far ends of the political spectrum. When less extreme folk start trying to use these incidents as a way of generalising about everyone that holds a different political view to them then they themselves have walked right into the trap.

While I'd agree that people toward the center shouldn't start labeling each other over things like this I don't think that calling these small disconnected extremist groups is quite right either. There's a climate in various places that creates this, the extremists are the tip of a bigger iceberg but the whole iceberg needs to be considered. For example professors afraid to voice their opinions on the stifling of free speech do to what can or will be done to them, as guys like Jordan Peterson and Gad Saad seem to get emails from these sorts of professors all day long, that climate is a problem. Similarly if a white male teacher suggests that he's fourteen, black, and female and all of the students are afraid to disagree in any way there's a problem.


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