Page 3 of 8 [ 121 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 8  Next

Kosmonaut
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,253

22 May 2007, 6:27 am

Do you think she counted them all :?



Ragtime
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Nov 2006
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,927
Location: Dallas, Texas

22 May 2007, 10:41 am

Sopho wrote:
But surely they're just deluding themselves? I don't see how it's possible for people to actually believe in a 'god' today.


That God exists is something I feel inside, spiritually -- in addition to seeing the evidence all around me. But even when I see less evidence, I still know it in my spirit.


_________________
Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible.


Sopho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Apr 2007
Gender: Female
Posts: 10,859

22 May 2007, 10:44 am

Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
But surely they're just deluding themselves? I don't see how it's possible for people to actually believe in a 'god' today.


That God exists is something I feel inside, spiritually, in addition to seeing the evidence all around me. But even when I see less evidence, I still know it in my spirit.

OK
Thank you for explaining.
So it is not something that you sit and think about and try and work out if there is a god? You just feel it inside that one exists?



Ragtime
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Nov 2006
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,927
Location: Dallas, Texas

22 May 2007, 10:50 am

Sopho wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
Sopho wrote:
But surely they're just deluding themselves? I don't see how it's possible for people to actually believe in a 'god' today.


That God exists is something I feel inside, spiritually, in addition to seeing the evidence all around me. But even when I see less evidence, I still know it in my spirit.

OK
Thank you for explaining.
So it is not something that you sit and think about and try and work out if there is a god? You just feel it inside that one exists?


Right. I'm not totally persuaded by intellect. And that setup is actually intentional on God's part. He wants only those who want to believe in Him to know He's real. That's the religious sense of the word "faith". It's a leap of willingness, not a probability system.


_________________
Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible.


Mitch8817
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Apr 2006
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,881
Location: Victoria, Australia

22 May 2007, 10:55 am

Sopho wrote:
So why do intelligent, sometimes good people turn to religion?


Indoctrination. When you're still a child everything your parents say is taken for unquestionable truth. With no capacity for objectivity or critical thinking, the child is essentially 'brainwashed'. By the time they get to your age, the notion of religion is so ingrained and 'proven' in their own consciousness that it is practically inescapable.

For those who aren't children, the reasons vary. They could be upset at the percieved injustice of the world and seek an answer that makes everything 'fair' ultimately - a comfort only found in religion. Then you have those missionaries promising an eternity of paradise in the next life to suffering, third world men and women. Who would say no to that; their lives are misery.

Religion appeals to the weak, the defenseless and the helpless. It is an external strength that fills in for their lack of the inner, a quick answer to our innate fear of the unknown and a belief that the universe is fair and with an ultimate purpose. Some people just need to accept that life is life, nothing less and certainly nothing more.

(Just an opinion, don't kill me)


_________________
"Pray...NOW!" -Auron, before Bushido attack


Sopho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Apr 2007
Gender: Female
Posts: 10,859

22 May 2007, 10:59 am

Mitch8817 wrote:
Sopho wrote:
So why do intelligent, sometimes good people turn to religion?


Indoctrination. When you're still a child everything your parents say is taken for unquestionable truth. With no capacity for objectivity or critical thinking, the child is essentially 'brainwashed'. By the time they get to your age, the notion of religion is so ingrained and 'proven' in their own consciousness that it is practically inescapable.

For those who aren't children, the reasons vary. They could be upset at the percieved injustice of the world and seek an answer that makes everything 'fair' ultimately - a comfort only found in religion. Then you have those missionaries promising an eternity of paradise in the next life to suffering, third world men and women. Who would say no to that; their lives are misery.

Religion appeals to the weak, the defenseless and the helpless. It is an external strength that fills in for their lack of the inner, a quick answer to our innate fear of the unknown and a belief that the universe is fair and with an ultimate purpose. Some people just need to accept that life is life, nothing less and certainly nothing more.

(Just an opinion, don't kill me)

I agree with all that. ^



Ragtime
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Nov 2006
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,927
Location: Dallas, Texas

22 May 2007, 10:59 am

Dreamer2 wrote:
In the simple culture where I grew up such a question would be an insult. I know you mean well, but I see no reason to explain why I believe.

And Pascal's bet is b*llshit, it's not an excuse to believe in anything.


Pascal was just making a point, not suggesting a course to follow. He was saying that it's illogical to wilfully resist a belief which, when practiced correctly, is harmless whether true or untrue. He's saying it's ridiculous to flee from something innocuous. (And thereby implying that there's a deeper reason that people reject Christ.) One can't truly practice his wager, inasmuch as one cannot "only officially" believe. God knows our hearts, not just our spoken professions of faith. He doesn't take our word for it. (If you were God, would you believe us??)

Insanity is deciding to believe something that shows it cannot be true. Such as, that a square is a circle. "Faith" does not mean seeing something is untrue and deciding to believe in it anyway. That would be madness. Rather, faith means believing in something you can't fully explain.


_________________
Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible.


Last edited by Ragtime on 22 May 2007, 11:09 am, edited 3 times in total.

Mitch8817
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Apr 2006
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,881
Location: Victoria, Australia

22 May 2007, 11:03 am

Thankyou Sopho, bit it's hard to voice such strong opinions without slapping people in the face. I apologise if I have offended any of the more religiously-inclined. After all, if it feels right, do it (or believe in it, in this case).


_________________
"Pray...NOW!" -Auron, before Bushido attack


Ragtime
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Nov 2006
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,927
Location: Dallas, Texas

22 May 2007, 11:07 am

Mitch8817 wrote:
Sopho wrote:
So why do intelligent, sometimes good people turn to religion?


Indoctrination.


Wouldn't the intelligent people grow up one day and think on their own? After all, they're intelligent.


_________________
Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible.


Ragtime
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Nov 2006
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,927
Location: Dallas, Texas

22 May 2007, 11:09 am

Mitch8817 wrote:
Thankyou Sopho, bit it's hard to voice such strong opinions without slapping people in the face. I apologise if I have offended any of the more religiously-inclined. After all, if it feels right, do it (or believe in it, in this case).


No offense taken, I just disagree.


_________________
Christianity is different than Judaism only in people's minds -- not in the Bible.


Mitch8817
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Apr 2006
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,881
Location: Victoria, Australia

22 May 2007, 11:14 am

Ragtime wrote:
Mitch8817 wrote:
Sopho wrote:
So why do intelligent, sometimes good people turn to religion?


Indoctrination.


Wouldn't the intelligent people grow up one day and think on their own? After all, they're intelligent.


Did you miss the rest of that sentence? 'By the time they get to your age, the notion of religion is so ingrained and 'proven' in their own consciousness that it is practically inescapable.'

Think of God like Santa Claus x1000.


_________________
"Pray...NOW!" -Auron, before Bushido attack


Kosmonaut
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,253

22 May 2007, 11:25 am

Ragtime wrote:
And that setup is actually intentional on God's part. He wants only those who want to believe in Him to know He's real.


this is jibberish :lol:



Mitch8817
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Apr 2006
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,881
Location: Victoria, Australia

22 May 2007, 11:31 am

Ragtime wrote:
Mitch8817 wrote:
Thankyou Sopho, bit it's hard to voice such strong opinions without slapping people in the face. I apologise if I have offended any of the more religiously-inclined. After all, if it feels right, do it (or believe in it, in this case).


No offense taken, I just disagree.


That's good! Unlike other people, I am not closed off to alternatives. I like exploring different views to my own.


_________________
"Pray...NOW!" -Auron, before Bushido attack


Mitch8817
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Apr 2006
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,881
Location: Victoria, Australia

22 May 2007, 11:34 am

Kosmonaut wrote:
Ragtime wrote:
And that setup is actually intentional on God's part. He wants only those who want to believe in Him to know He's real.


this is jibberish :lol:


But if he loves us all equally and unlimitedly, wouldn't he want to maximise our chances to get into heaven? - you know, give us a real opportunity to make a choice instead of having this gamble (100's if religions each saying that all the others are wrong etc. etc.).

If God appeared before me then I would believe in whatever denomination he represented, unquestionably. And yet, He seems focused too much on these sick and endless tests to give a rat's.


_________________
"Pray...NOW!" -Auron, before Bushido attack


Kosmonaut
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,253

22 May 2007, 11:45 am

i have no idea. i am not on speaking terms with god (whatever that means) to know about his(?) intentions.
All i was saying is that this
"And that setup is actually intentional on God's part. He wants only those who want to believe in Him to know He's real."
is jibberish.

I mean read it over :P



Mitch8817
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Apr 2006
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,881
Location: Victoria, Australia

22 May 2007, 11:57 am

Yeah sorry, I was addressing ragtime but accidentally quoted you too :?


_________________
"Pray...NOW!" -Auron, before Bushido attack