The Second Civil War of the US
03 Jul 2017, 1:39 am
Yep.
Of course, we need to remember that Americans are not a separate species from the rest of humanity.
They have been twisted and psychologically mangled by a highly effective system of corporate propaganda ... but they can break free.
Look at how much support Sanders got. Eventually, one of these days, America will do the right thing.
"I choose to live in what I think is the greatest country in the world, which is committing horrendous terrorist acts and should stop."
- Noam Chomsky
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03 Jul 2017, 1:14 pm
This is a definite sign of neo-fascism.
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Kraichgauer
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03 Jul 2017, 2:04 pm
Fascinating. I don't agree with absolutely everything the Professor said, particularly about how desire for an Apartheid state had driven the War for American Independence, but otherwise I think he was spot on.
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03 Jul 2017, 2:09 pm
I don't get how ANYBODY could deduce that the desire for an Apartheid state was at the crux of the creation of the United States.
It's true that "Apartheid" existed (see slavery and Jim Crow laws)---but the Founding Fathers, by and large, agreed as to the inherent evil of slavery (while perhaps being racist in other senses).
The main inspiration behind the creation of the United States was the desire to escape the tyranny of Great Britain.
jrjones9933
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03 Jul 2017, 2:28 pm
He makes a good case for the history of that train of thought.
https://www.quora.com/How-many-of-Ameri ... ave-owners
That qualifies as some evidence.
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03 Jul 2017, 2:35 pm
The first time I read about "Civil War Two" in America, it was in a book by a guy named Thomas Chittum, who incidently was a Rhodesian territorial (i.e. he fought to keep white minority rule in what is today Zimbabwe) and also fought (for the Croatians I think) in the Balkan Wars. He basically said America was going to blow up into a race war.
Not sure if I buy it.
One of the reasons why we're unlikely to have a civil war is that we have more people over 35 years of age than we have teenagers; this was actually seen as a very important factor in assessing whether there was going to be a civil war. Basically, there will be a lot of young people compared to old people in situations where civil wars break out.
I think in the Soviet Union, at the time of the Russian Civil War there were a lot of young people vs. old people, but when the Soviet sphere collapsed in the late 80s/early 90s, there were not so many young people vs. old people, so there wasn't much violence.
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03 Jul 2017, 2:45 pm
Not sure if I buy it.
"Race war" is a dumb term. The terms is used by racists who are trying to promote racism.
When "race war" happens in the real world, it is called genocide. Call it that.
I think in the Soviet Union, at the time of the Russian Civil War there were a lot of young people vs. old people, but when the Soviet sphere collapsed in the late 80s/early 90s, there were not so many young people vs. old people, so there wasn't much violence.
We don't necessarily need a civil war. We might be able to size the means of production and oust the billionaire class non-violently. That's a possibility.
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ASPartOfMe
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03 Jul 2017, 4:15 pm
IMHO America's will fall into anarchy or just fall apart rather then civil war.
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03 Jul 2017, 4:25 pm
Anarchy?
In practice, there's no such thing as anarchy. People naturally want structure because people don't like being confused. Many people call Somalia an anarchy. In practice, Somalia was ruled by warlords until recently. A warlord is just a politician who isn't called a politician.
Most people who call themselves "anarchists" are actually hardcore democratic socialists who want to eliminate all forms of oppression from the world. That's why some anarchists are calling themselves "libertarian socialists" nowadays. It reduces confusion.
Most people nowadays seem to think that anarchists want chaos. In reality, almost nobody wants chaos. I could probably count the people in the world who seriously want chaos on one hand.
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Synthetic carbo-polymers got em through man. They got em through mouse. They got through, and we're gonna get out.
-Roostre
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06 Jul 2017, 9:56 pm
I know the crazies talk about using guerrilla tactics but guerrilla tactics don't work when they get bombed from 30,000 feet. They'll never see the face of their killer.
How do you prevent a plane from taking off? By sabotaging the runway of course. Try sabotaging an air force runway. See if the air force lets you.
So they'll going bomb whole cities and kill millions of non rebels who's friends and family will hate the government and join the rebels to get revenge. This tactic doesn't work Iraq, Afghan, Vietnam all showed this. Kill one rebel and you make 20 more.
No the war would be bloody street to street fighting by what few troops remain loyal against the ones who kept their oaths, vets and civilians.
Whole battalions of equipment might vanish and show up on the rebels side.
If a civil war happen it be house to house up close. Bombing and tanks will just increase the enemy numbers while decreasing support for the government even in those most loyal.
You never win a insurgent/rebel war. They can last decades and centuries.
ASPartOfMe
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07 Jul 2017, 4:33 am
Anarchy?
In practice, there's no such thing as anarchy. People naturally want structure because people don't like being confused. Many people call Somalia an anarchy. In practice, Somalia was ruled by warlords until recently. A warlord is just a politician who isn't called a politician.
Most people who call themselves "anarchists" are actually hardcore democratic socialists who want to eliminate all forms of oppression from the world. That's why some anarchists are calling themselves "libertarian socialists" nowadays. It reduces confusion.
Most people nowadays seem to think that anarchists want chaos. In reality, almost nobody wants chaos. I could probably count the people in the world who seriously want chaos on one hand.
IMHO it will not be a matter of wanting anarchy, it will be a matter of unintented negative consequences and natural deterioration continuing.
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Professionally Identified and joined WP August 26, 2013
DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
It is Autism Acceptance Month
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
07 Jul 2017, 8:33 am
Anarchy?
In practice, there's no such thing as anarchy. People naturally want structure because people don't like being confused. Many people call Somalia an anarchy. In practice, Somalia was ruled by warlords until recently. A warlord is just a politician who isn't called a politician.
Most people who call themselves "anarchists" are actually hardcore democratic socialists who want to eliminate all forms of oppression from the world. That's why some anarchists are calling themselves "libertarian socialists" nowadays. It reduces confusion.
Most people nowadays seem to think that anarchists want chaos. In reality, almost nobody wants chaos. I could probably count the people in the world who seriously want chaos on one hand.
IMHO it will not be a matter of wanting anarchy, it will be a matter of unintented negative consequences and natural deterioration continuing.
I don't even know what you mean.
If the system continues to deteriorate and nothing gets better, the rich will get richer.
That isn't exactly anarchy.
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Synthetic carbo-polymers got em through man. They got em through mouse. They got through, and we're gonna get out.
-Roostre
READ THIS -> https://represent.us/
RetroGamer87
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09 Jul 2017, 3:48 am
I know the crazies talk about using guerrilla tactics but guerrilla tactics don't work when they get bombed from 30,000 feet. They'll never see the face of their killer.
How do you prevent a plane from taking off? By sabotaging the runway of course. Try sabotaging an air force runway. See if the air force lets you.
So they'll going bomb whole cities and kill millions of non rebels who's friends and family will hate the government and join the rebels to get revenge. This tactic doesn't work Iraq, Afghan, Vietnam all showed this. Kill one rebel and you make 20 more.
No the war would be bloody street to street fighting by what few troops remain loyal against the ones who kept their oaths, vets and civilians.
Whole battalions of equipment might vanish and show up on the rebels side.
If a civil war happen it be house to house up close. Bombing and tanks will just increase the enemy numbers while decreasing support for the government even in those most loyal.
You never win a insurgent/rebel war. They can last decades and centuries.
Who says they'll bomb whole cities? They'd be at war with the rebels, not with the general population. They won't kill millions of civilians because they're not monsters.
But I'm sure the rebels could easily steal military equipment because that stuff is never kept under guard. /sarcasm
It's so easy to win a civil war when it's only happening in your imagination but it's much harder to win one in real life. I guess that's why no one will actually start the civil war because that would ruin their fantasy that they can actually win.
Talk is cheap but wars are expensive. Much easier to just talk about how you could win the war without ever actually starting the war. Just like the kid who says "I can too do a backflip, I just don't wanna".
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Empathy
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09 Jul 2017, 7:47 am
I don't know if this thread is about trade war or grieving for postmodern economics after one.
I remember that China are helping supply Americas imports under the noses of our own forced to shut Steel Factories.
What I think is wrong is that while Trump is certain he is going to make America Great Again, he is also shutting off
possible relationships outside of Europe who have to profit hard out of a declining trade orgainistation.
He thinks is not going to make it again in the industrious sense, that really angers me.
It was the yanks that made my dad redundant through claiming back their investments and yeah it might sound great that you are reinvesting back into your economy but when you argue that Britian should be doing the same and helping other third world countries out, and comparing us to yourselves on various discussions you're clearly not being objective in how you are being.
How a country needs to defend itself and see the bigger picture is that which is shutting everything else down, even though China are your G-Summit friends for now, your war is likely to start and end in self governing militia, whilst Trump seeks to live rich off his assets and buy into this great Steel Indusrty like the food chain it clearly is.
The Great Steel Capital of the world was once Great Britain, and China being a close second untill they started buying all thier imports from us and making themselves loaded off the backs of British Taxpayers and Foreign Aid which is about time they scrapped.
They are the richest country in the world and all Trump wants to see is that America are number one.
ASPartOfMe
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09 Jul 2017, 12:38 pm
Anarchy?
In practice, there's no such thing as anarchy. People naturally want structure because people don't like being confused. Many people call Somalia an anarchy. In practice, Somalia was ruled by warlords until recently. A warlord is just a politician who isn't called a politician.
Most people who call themselves "anarchists" are actually hardcore democratic socialists who want to eliminate all forms of oppression from the world. That's why some anarchists are calling themselves "libertarian socialists" nowadays. It reduces confusion.
Most people nowadays seem to think that anarchists want chaos. In reality, almost nobody wants chaos. I could probably count the people in the world who seriously want chaos on one hand.
IMHO it will not be a matter of wanting anarchy, it will be a matter of unintented negative consequences and natural deterioration continuing.
I don't even know what you mean.
If the system continues to deteriorate and nothing gets better, the rich will get richer.
That isn't exactly anarchy.
If things get worse and worse the rich will get richer for a time until they lose most of it because there will be a lot less of "it" period. It won't be a civil war scenario blue states red states but eventually blue cities vs red country neighbors, one house against their next door neighbors, family member vs family member, black vs white, old vs young, religious vs LBGT, various factions of most groups dividing up and fighting each other. Yeah and populists vs the elites also. This will generally not be the result of deliberate planning but the unintended consequences of decisions made emotionally in haste.
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DSM 5: Autism Spectrum Disorder, DSM IV: Aspergers Moderate Severity
It is Autism Acceptance Month
“My autism is not a superpower. It also isn’t some kind of god-forsaken, endless fountain of suffering inflicted on my family. It’s just part of who I am as a person”. - Sara Luterman
jrjones9933
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29 Jul 2017, 12:15 pm
The right wing media continue to promote civil war.
Jones is hardly alone in promoting this scary, emerging narrative on the right. The theme gained momentum after the shooting at the congressional baseball game last month. The day before the attack, on June 13, right wing broadcaster Michael Savage, host of syndicated show The Savage Nation, warned that “there’s going to be a civil war” because of “what this left-wing is becoming in this country.” After the baseball field shooting the next day, he said that he “know[s] what’s coming, and it’s going to get worse.” Savage also said of the shooting that “this blood is on [Democrats’] hands.”
http://www.newsweek.com/trump-alex-jone ... nce-639912
Jones and Savage both appeal to extremists, but other pundits tend to adopt their successful ideas, however dangerously insane.
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