Based on physics, what insights do you make about reality?

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techstepgenr8tion
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13 Dec 2017, 7:38 am

spoirier wrote:
All right so to say in short, this esoteric stuff is just meant to be of special interest to some people with some special needs and happening to have all the time of their life to invest themselves in that for unclear results as they happen to have otherwise found nothing better to do of their life... in these conditions I cannot see why you expected me to be interested in that.

It's mostly interesting from the standpoint of those asking the question - can you bring your own will into it at all rather than it just being a sort of luck or lottery or can you transform yourself at all with it? They're taking the slow road to resolving that and many of them have somewhat to their own satisfaction. Also yes, it's not hyper-responsive in the way a lot of new agers, mediums, etc. like to act as though it were. Also TY the suggestion that I've found nothing better to do with my life. :wink:

As for your story with the Boji stones - the trouble with that, while its a wonderful story and I'm glad you're feeling better, events like that generally aren't repeatable. Stellar results can definitely happen in a while when you haven't planned them or don't necessarily know they're going to happen, but it tends to be like a jolt of energy or information that zips through one's life and typically it's found that the object itself had less to do with the event than something that one can't put their finger on. At that rate though I can assure you that you're right - ie. the odd things that happen in life, unprovoked, will almost always be more impressive than anything you toiled away to figure out how to do because in the later case it's a bit like you trying to bring it through willfully of your own accord while in the former case forces much more, if not more powerful, oriented toward such tasks than is typically possible on just a human level brought it to pass.


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techstepgenr8tion
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13 Dec 2017, 9:37 am

The other piece perhaps, to really be trying to figure out what's going on behind the scenes in terms of such emergent effects and large/chaotic patterns of information, of the sort that consciousness likely belongs to, it's not going to be as tight or neat as particle physics as you're going to be trying to figure out how macro formations and dynamics interact and you'll be doing so along vectors that are a lot like weather patterns. In that sense it's a lot more like meteorology, which in its own right gets almost as bad of a rap as divination sometimes. This is part of why they also seem to go on, in the 21st century, talking about the classical four elements or salt, sulfur, mercury, prima materia, and whatever else - it's not matter they're discussing but rather a sort of observed behaviorism within it and even if somewhat historically pejoritized by way of Renaissance association those terms don't really seem to be all that much better or worse than anything new they could devise.

To that extent though I tend to have more trust in people who show a great deal of candor with themselves and show that they've done a lot to tease apart the meaning of their experiences, even if their results would be considered modest. That's partly why I listed the names I did - ie. as far as I can tell they're honest with themselves enough that I feel like I can trust their intelligence as well as their ability to either isolate a useful detail about how things work from an experience or alternately admit to themselves what they don't really know and are able to at least responsibly circumscribe a zone of possibility from that perspective. New agers, OTOH, might get a lot of great results but they also swallow loads of credulity (really pushing that 'faith like a mustard seed' bit from Matthew), but the really sad thing is even if they get great results sometimes they can't understand how or why it happened and worse still they have no sensible model either for failure so they tend to both succeed big and wipe out equally hard with quite a bit of damage to their sense of identity (I tend to think of that as the kamikaze approach).

For the faithful I suppose that doesn't matter. For people who actually want to understand how this stuff works, or even figure out what new questions they should ask in light of new evidence, it's a slower road albeit I get the impression that those of us who take the analytical approach probably will be rewarded with much more stable dividends (as well as how real understanding typically adds to character) and also far fewer incidence of major psychological crisis, or identity crisis when and if things don't work out the way they thought they should, but I suppose as well these are different temperaments as the saying goes different strokes for different folks. Some people want religion out of this sector of things, others want science or philosophy and if it's science or philosophy you want data points for it's probably good to have a list of practitioners who fit well with that even if what they have may be a lot more modest than bringing JK Rowling's world to life.


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spoirier
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14 Dec 2017, 5:42 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
As for your story with the Boji stones - the trouble with that, while its a wonderful story and I'm glad you're feeling better, events like that generally aren't repeatable. Stellar results can definitely happen in a while when you haven't planned them or don't necessarily know they're going to happen
What ?? Indeed I won't try to repeat the brain damage I had just for the sake of checking if these stones will cure that once again. I did not expect in advance to meet that man who had these stones, reported his extrasensorial perceptions of what I had in my body and promised to me that his stones would "wash" that damage - a promise which sounded rather incredible to me at first as the trouble lasted for so long I thought it was irreversible, I only accepted to try by relying on his total confidence in the power of his stones to do that while I saw there was at least some reality in his claims. Then as I regularly keep going to use again his other pair of boji stones, while the benefit is often unclear, most of the times I still clearly feel that "it does something".
Now from my observations the only obstacle I can see to the repeatability of such benefits, is that we live in a world of nuts suffering a dire lack of attention to what works, and very bad in the art of planning anything properly.



techstepgenr8tion
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14 Dec 2017, 8:02 am

I think what I was trying to say is if you inquired further with the guy, or people like him, about how the stones worked you'd hear some vague reference about chi, prana, or something about mystical or occult energy along those lines. You could bring in ten, fifty, maybe even hundred people, and more than likely no one else would have been healed aside from having some vague sense of feeling better. A lot of people have run at this sort of thing hoping that they could perform some basic scientific observation and see if they could figure out what's happening, for example with an energy healer, using censors and measurement devices hoping to find something in the feedback that could lead them to isolating a scientific cause. So far that doesn't seem to have worked out well for anyone whose tried. For enough people who'd demand evidence via currently known and accepted models of physics that's sufficient proof that energy healing isn't a real thing.

I've probably tarred any image of my having any practicality or common sense by now since I'm willing to spend the rest of my life performing exercises and studying monographs but I might perhaps suggest keeping with your own criticism - ie. forget looking further into what happened with the stones, perhaps just be thankful that it happened, and just focus on the natural sciences. From the sound of things you won't have the patience for the blurriness of where researching what happened to you would lead.

I'm sure we'll look forward to your thoughts on physics and the like in the coming months. On this topic I'd rather give you some space because it seems like I'm just winding you up and even though I don't really care whether or not you see the world my way and I'm fine with principled disagreement it seems like the conversation's hitting an impass.


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aghogday
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14 Dec 2017, 11:32 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8rRzTtP7Tc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWQfe__fNbs

An "Inconvenient Truth" to Medical Science as whole is that the Placebo, so much more than a Sugar Pill,
in effect is more affect in the Healing Force of Emotions at the Cellular level too. There is a great deal of
research that does show that the Will of Mind as Practiced in Positive ways of Emotional and Sensory Affect
is more powerful in some cases at least than any Medical Science Pill Manufactured to date; full stop and go.

And as far as 'Newagey' ways of Meditation in both Still and Moving Ways; Science shows
that Meditation is literally a Tool For a Fountain of Youth to Keep a 50 Year old Brain
Looking Like a 25 year old Brain in Empirically Measurable ways too.

And of course as at one time; Moving Meditation was considered
Woo to Regulate Human Emotions and Integrate Senses in Enhancing
Cognitive Executive Functioning in ways of Laser Focus and Greater Short
Term Working Memory Abilities as now Science Shows that Moving and Still Meditation
Is A way as Eastern Martial Arts already Brings as a way to gain Mastery over the Internal
Universe of Human Being now. I did it all innately, instinctually, and intuitively to heal myself
after years of Failure of my Psychiatrist and other Doctors to help me as a being who lived in total pain and
numb from Wake to Sleep in a Synergy of 19 Life Threatening Disorders; where I overcame all of them with
Meditative Flow in Zone Art in Writing Free Verse Poetry as well as Free Flowing Dance with no guidelines or
instructions either but Flow and Go more as time, distance and space disappears beyond Infinity as a State of Well Love/
Being in 'Heaven' always now. Let's just say it's literally true, too; my Psychiatrist was so inspired by what I personally was
able to do where he could provide with no pills that he quit his Private Practice and is now Teaching Movement Arts
for the Real all Natural Healing Force of that at a Medical Hospital in Southern Florida now. It's true, not only
did I Heal myself; I also Changed the Life of My Psychiatrist who as a Major in the Reserves of the Air Force
who dealt regularly with Combat Fatigue in folks coming Back from War in the Middle East, stated
that my case was the worst case he had ever encountered so much that he referred me to
a new procedure to implant a Vagal Nerve Stimulator so I would Feel something, anything
at all of Emotions, then. They also used TransCranial Magnetic Stimulation too but
my Insurance would cover neither, so, I was left to figure it out myself. Really,
the answer is so simple as we are animals who are still evolved to move freely
making no sounds invisible to both Predator and Prey to both escape and
hunt for subsistence now free. Nah; straight line moves and pills for cure
are both short-cuts limited for fuller Freedom within as Well Being now as it
is a use or lose it proposition; same reason I don't get cold in the Winter; I expose
myself to the Cold and Adapt. Human Beings on average have little idea what they can
Do as Mind over Matter as far as flesh and blood well being goes and I for one at least, Bring
Conclusive Evidence so far that it works with no fail to this point increasing in efficacy as i continue
to live an amazing life pain free at will of mind where now my whole being is trained to the point of
A Real Mind and Body Balancing Soul where i can slowly raise my arm and bring higher levels of bliss in
Bio-Feedback continuing ways of a Blessing of Life that is real. No one could provide me the answers although
they existed online somewhere for those who do keep a seek and find for answers. I continue the Tradition for Free.


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spoirier
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14 Dec 2017, 1:39 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I think what I was trying to say is if you inquired further with the guy, or people like him, about how the stones worked you'd hear some vague reference about chi, prana, or something about mystical or occult energy along those lines. You could bring in ten, fifty, maybe even hundred people, and more than likely no one else would have been healed aside from having some vague sense of feeling better. A lot of people have run at this sort of thing hoping that they could perform some basic scientific observation and see if they could figure out what's happening, for example with an energy healer, using censors and measurement devices hoping to find something in the feedback that could lead them to isolating a scientific cause. So far that doesn't seem to have worked out well for anyone whose tried. For enough people who'd demand evidence via currently known and accepted models of physics that's sufficient proof that energy healing isn't a real thing.
You make assumptions, with which I disagree. These stones have real big healing power. He told me about some cases where they were strikingly effective on other people. Also that it is not just any boji stones. He insisted that the ones he has are exceptionally powerful, and specially matching into pairs. More precisely, that their power is only similar to that of the most powerful magnetizers (in the sense of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_ma ... agnetizers which is actually unrelated to the magnetism in physics; many magnetizers actually practice under the official label of Osteopathy). I have no reason to distrust his claims because of the partial verifications I have.

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I'm sure we'll look forward to your thoughts on physics and the like in the coming months. On this topic I'd rather give you some space because it seems like I'm just winding you up and even though I don't really care whether or not you see the world my way and I'm fine with principled disagreement it seems like the conversation's hitting an impass.
My thoughts on physics are in my web site, so it's up to you to read them there. It remains incomplete but when I'll be ready to add more I'll do it there as well.



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SomeRandomGuy
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14 Dec 2017, 2:50 pm

spoirier wrote:
You make assumptions, with which I disagree. These stones have real big healing power. He told me about some cases where they were strikingly effective on other people. Also that it is not just any boji stones. He insisted that the ones he has are exceptionally powerful, and specially matching into pairs. More precisely, that their power is only similar to that of the most powerful magnetizers (in the sense of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_ma ... agnetizers which is actually unrelated to the magnetism in physics; many magnetizers actually practice under the official label of Osteopathy). I have no reason to distrust his claims because of the partial verifications I have.

I need to take my leave on the conversation then. Maybe in the future we can talk about this more but it sounds like you're certain that either mesmerism or boji stones are a unique phenomena. That really shouldn't be my concern and really all I can do is just wish you good luck in your research.


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spoirier
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14 Dec 2017, 4:25 pm

I'm not sure what you mean by "a unique phenomena". Things I described are simply what I stumbled on, which appeared quite remarkable... it seemed to me that your way was not so clear based on your own words, yet I'm not trying to judge anyone's way. Being certain ? well things seem to me quite likely the way I said, that's all. Now I hope to come back to my work on maths and physics soon...



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14 Dec 2017, 6:11 pm

spoirier wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean by "a unique phenomena".

Not sitting in a broader context of phenomena or other items people have figured out and found to be in keeping with other items in a larger category.

spoirier wrote:
it seemed to me that your way was not so clear based on your own words, yet I'm not trying to judge anyone's way.

You know the saying 'extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence?', that's part of why I really try to avoid making grandiose claims on either the things I'm studying or the authors, lecturers, and teachers whose opinions and candor I respect. The impression I get with this sphere of nature and how most people interact with it is that the interaction itself and one's capacity for it is much more like a sport, in the sense of needing cultivated prowess, than a technology that you can assemble and distribute for anyone's equal use.

The only thing I've heard that maybe gets immediate results but needs gun-range etiquette are the old Renaissance books like the Lesser Key of Solomon, Ars Goetia, Ars Almadel, Hemptameron, etc.. As far as setting up a triangle of art and calling up angels and demons though - I can't say I have any personal experience, really don't have any place for such a permanent room for those sorts of workings, so I can neither confirm nor deny albeit I can say with some certainty that Stephen Skinner and Joseph H Peterson are some of the more scholarly translators and commentators on that sort of thing.

That and, as far as animal magnetism is concerned, different cultures have different names and symbols for it. That's part of why I don't really think there's much likelihood that boji stones, and a few inventions from Anton Mesmer and Paracelsus, are the whole dynamic.


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14 Dec 2017, 11:10 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
We are all just characters in a big game of "Farmville" being played by a geeky kid on a computer in his bedroom.

Is the geeky kid God?

If we're living in a simulation does that mean Heaven and Hell could also be simulated? We might die in this simulation and wake up in a simulation of Hell.


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