Do Gun control proponets think that criminals obey laws?

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traven
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14 Oct 2017, 2:52 am

Is it like the idea that people in positions of power are completely trustworthy?



sly279
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14 Oct 2017, 3:34 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
Then why do so few people get shot in Australia?

Far less people, more spread it, mostly the same culture and race. Etc

Amecixan is heavily populated of mix cultures, races and gangs.
The Pacific Northwest for example is lowly populated, spread out and has few crime. The east coast and California are densely packed with huge populations of all kinds of cultures and have lots of crime. They also have lots of gun control. But it’s the densely packed people and gangs that cause violence to guns. So they avoid the actual problem cause it’s too hard to fix and do gun control so they look like they doing something for votes so they keep their job, keep getting bribes and making millions of dollars so they can keep living the rich life style. They aren’t rich cause they worked for. They get paid millions by companies and special interests groups to vote in their favor..

It’s funny the people calling trump a nazi and the next hitler who’s going round up millions of Mexicans and such are pushing to make it so only trump and his government forces have guns. :roll: let’s give the so called dictator all the guns and ,ale it so no one can fight back to stop him. If he really was the next hitler why would you want only him and his lackies romhave guns? One of the first thing hitler did was take guns away from Jews and non Pure blood Germans.



sly279
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14 Oct 2017, 3:36 am

traven wrote:
Is it like the idea that people in positions of power are completely trustworthy?

See it’s confusing. The same people who call cops killers and say their too militarized, f**k the police, ec, call for only cops to have guns and to federalize all cops into a militarized force 0.o make no freaking sense. They literary want to crest the next ss brown shirts while at the same time restricting guns only to said ss brown shirts.



funeralxempire
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14 Oct 2017, 3:48 am

sly279 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Consensus is that the US constitution allows for some restrictions on what arms a private citizen may possess...

What consensus? I have never heard of that and I believe it is only today's government that might have any such alleged consensus.


Have the courts consistently allowed for restrictions?


No as the courts shift political sides every so often. They ruled in the 1900s that civilians should have access to any weapons that military infantry have. Ruling change who knows in coming years the courts might roll back on previous restrictions and rule them unconstitutional. Especially if trump puts in a few more republican judges. The liberal judges as is refuse to hear gun cases cause they know the majority is pro gun now. If they don’t hear them then the 5 right leaning judges can’t rule in favor of gun rights.


It's still unlikely that they will totally deregulate things, but who knows - maybe they'll remove all restrictions on Title II weapons. As long as some degree of regulation of those types of weapons is allowed for my point will stand.


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leejosepho
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14 Oct 2017, 7:49 am

funeralxempire wrote:
leejosepho wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
Consensus is that the US constitution allows for some restrictions on what arms a private citizen may possess...

What consensus? I have never heard of that and I believe it is only today's government that might have any such alleged consensus.

Have the courts consistently allowed for restrictions?

Either way would prove nothing about the Constitution.


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Marknis
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14 Oct 2017, 12:04 pm

Raleigh wrote:
^ You could always move to Taree.


I could but I would go through what my friend is currently going through living in America. She doesn't have any family nor many friends here. Even with America's problems, I was born into them so I am used to them. I can see why my friend wants to move back to Australia. You either have to be born into American lifestyle or have the thickest skin imaginable to live here.

She claims people in Australia would ask me questions just to hear my accent. The thing is that I don't have the stereotypical Texas accent. I don't sound like a redneck or cowboy. If anything, I sound like a depressed news reporter.



Fogman
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14 Oct 2017, 1:05 pm

Apparently gun control proponents are either overlooking the criminal element, or think that they will do an about face and turn their guns in when they are declared illegal.

Certain cities have already done this, Chicago, and New York City have banned handguns, and the crime rates there are as bad as they were, or are getting worse. What's worse, is that in New York City, flying into either JFK, or LaGuardia to transfer to another flight with legally registered handguns from other states will get you arrested and charged with a felony.

California and other states also have very restrictive gun laws, and that hasn't helped to curb gun violence there either.

In 2000, I worked 3rd shift at a gas station in NC, and the cops pulled over a car with two individuals who had been selling drugs at a nearby club. They got a baggie of what was alleged to be ecstasy, som pot, and two pistols. One of which was a Glock that had been reported stolen from somebody in Fall River Massachussetts in 1986. Stolen guns quite often tend to stay stolen until they get taken off a perp, sometimes a few days later, to many years later.


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ASPartOfMe
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14 Oct 2017, 2:12 pm

New York City is by far more the most densely populated place in America and has a lower crime rate then most if not all other cities.

Why?

A policing philosophy that emphasizes arresting people for small crimes like subway fare-beating and window washing with the idea that the person committing the minor crime is more likely to have or will commit major crimes.

The "comstat" program whereby where an area that has spike in crime will be picked by computers and gets flooded with resources.

A police force of over 30,000 that can flood an area having trouble.

The local media and population that does not want to go back to the "bad old days" of 1960's to early 90's. If an area has a spike in crime or starts deteriorating the politicians and police commissioner is going to hear about it.


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funeralxempire
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14 Oct 2017, 2:48 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
New York City is by far more the most densely populated place in America and has a lower crime rate then most if not all other cities.

Why?

A policing philosophy that emphasizes arresting people for small crimes like subway fare-beating and window washing with the idea that the person committing the minor crime is more likely to have or will commit major crimes.

The "comstat" program whereby where an area that has spike in crime will be picked by computers and gets flooded with resources.

A police force of over 30,000 that can flood an area having trouble.

The local media and population that does not want to go back to the "bad old days" of 1960's to early 90's. If an area has a spike in crime or starts deteriorating the politicians and police commissioner is going to hear about it.


Just gonna leave these here:

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/arti ... -policing/
http://home.uchicago.edu/~ludwigj/paper ... s_2006.pdf
http://www.businessinsider.com/criticis ... ory-2013-8
http://articles.latimes.com/2006/apr/20 ... harcourt20

The debate over broken windows theory is far from over.


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Raptor
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14 Oct 2017, 11:54 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
A policing philosophy that emphasizes arresting people for small crimes like subway fare-beating and window washing with the idea that the person committing the minor crime is more likely to have or will commit major crimes.

Sounds like some kind if a police state.
No thanks.


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15 Oct 2017, 6:08 am

Marknis wrote:
Raleigh wrote:
^ There's plenty of violence, but the absence of guns means less people die from it.


I don't deny that. I'd just feel safer around other nation's equivalents of rednecks instead of the ones around me. Rednecks here harm non-human animals just for fun and hate anyone not like themselves.


I would not feel safe around Australian bogans if they had access to guns, legally or illegally.

They would buy guns illegally without a second thought if they could. But when the country is not flooded with guns it means there are very few black market guns. The few that exist sell at inflated prices, more than bogans can afford.

I know that if it was illegal for an American guy to buy a gun from a store, he could easily buy one from his neighbor. But when you live in Australia and your neighbor doesn't own a gun, and his neighbor doesn't own a gun have one and his neighbor doesn't own a gun and even the neighborhood petty criminal doesn't have own a gun, who are you going to buy a gun from? You can't even buy one illegally.

I know this wouldn't work in America because there are already about two guns for every three people. It only works in countries that aren't already flooded with guns. The sad fact is you need guns because you have guns. I don't need guns because my neighbor doesn't own one.

As for cities with gun control having more people getting shot, that's because it's easy to drive over to the next county and get one. I'm sure they don't search every car entering Chicago or even every car entering California from Nevada.

It works for us because we didn't ban guns for a city or for a state, we banned guns for a continent. People get in and out of Australia by plane. Try bringing a gun in on a plane. It won't work.


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RetroGamer87
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15 Oct 2017, 6:21 am

sly279 wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Then why do so few people get shot in Australia?

Far less people, more spread it, mostly the same culture and race. Etc

Erm, no. Not spread out. The thing about Australia is that much of the land is uninhabitable desert. That means most of the population lives in a handful of cities.

Reeally not the same culture and race. I can walk through my neighborhood on a typical day and lots of Indians, Africans, Asians, ladies in burqas, I see them every day, not once in a blue moon. I hear multiple languages spoken on the train every day, I live within walking distance of an Indian supermarket and two Vietnamese supermarkets and that's just in the suburbs.


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15 Oct 2017, 9:26 am

Australia doesn't have as many criminals with guns. That's good. Now all that's left to worry about is your government becoming a dictatorship. If it ever ends up being as oppressive as North Korea, there will be nothing you can do to stop it. Best of luck.


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funeralxempire
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15 Oct 2017, 9:37 am

modernmax wrote:
Australia doesn't have as many criminals with guns. That's good. Now all that's left to worry about is your government becoming a dictatorship. If it ever ends up being as oppressive as North Korea, there will be nothing you can do to stop it. Best of luck.


To be fair, when you've just been shot by a terrorist, mugger or nut job mass shooter and lay there bleeding out, whether or not you live in a dictatorship, or whether your homeland ever becomes one ceases to be a relevant concern.


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leejosepho
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15 Oct 2017, 1:01 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
...when you've just been shot by a terrorist, mugger or nut job mass shooter and lay there bleeding out, whether or not you live in a dictatorship, or whether your homeland ever becomes one ceases to be a relevant concern.

Yes, by then it is definitely too late to stand up for oneself or for anyone else...

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Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. --Martin Niemöller


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