Being provided a living If one can't work
kokopelli
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Joined: 27 Nov 2017
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Posts: 3,657
Location: amid the sunlight and the dust and the wind
02 Dec 2017, 3:54 pm
cubedemon6073 wrote:
sly279 wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
sly279 wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
People should be forced against their will to appease potential suicidal people?
Where does it end ... people should be forced to marry lonely people, because lonely people might suicide?
Where does it end ... people should be forced to marry lonely people, because lonely people might suicide?
Either
a. Others are obligated to provide those who can't provide themselves a living to keep them from violating their own right to life
or
b. Suicide is an inalienable right and a moral obligation to prevent one from violating the rights of others.
To accept a and b as false at the same time leads to a contradiction of morality, values and standards.
Just what do you mean by providing them a living? Is that basic necessities such as food and shelter or is for a luxurious living with most, if not, all wants provided for?
Good question. Basics is the answer
What’s basics? A cardboard box, and two dishes of rice a day?
North Korea provides basics and their population is starving but alive and highly infected with parasites.
What’s so wrong with poor people having a decent life? No doubt middle class would take most my belongings away. I’m still way poorer then them even with my belongs. I don’t have a house, multiple cars. Freak them and their desire to have 10 $50,000+ cars and multip houses. They can spare some of their excess money to help others live a bareable life. I’ve met anti tax middle class people and they aren’t hurting a bit. They own out right multiple cars and one house. They have a huge savings. They have lots of nice things. They want mor cars more houses. Meh I don’t even have a car or a house.
Being able to afford the cost of living including medical expenses. And, if possible help them to s point where they can do it themselves.
I can tell you right now that the anti welfare people don’t think medical expenses are part of the basics. They’d give you a carbonara box or mud hut to love in and the crapist food they can find, they want people on welfare to suffer and have horrible lives that barely live. Just enough food to keep alive so probly 500-1000 calories a day. They’d rather welfare people either die or get jobs like them. But there’s not enough of their jobs for 200 million people. I always tell them if it’s so easy then you’ll have no problem give your job to someone else and finding a new one. Non will do that.
Thing is sly, they need to be forced to justify their morals, ethics, values and beliefs. My argument is to the Ben Shapiro's of the world. Those like Ben Shapiro need to be forced to justify what they say is true. He has a saying that facts don't care about one's feelings. Well, facts should apply to him and those like him as well.
They should be able to prove that God of Abraham and Moses exist.
Prove that the Bible is the valid word of God.
Prove that their interpretation of the Bible is correct and they're the true prophets of this God. They should be able to explain their interpretation and how they got their step by step and be ready for scrutiny.
Prove that their actions and policies align with the correct interpretation of God's desires and wishes if God exists.
So everyone has to be able to prove that every statement that they make is true? There is no room for opinion or belief?
And who has the final authority to determine which is the correct interpretation of God's desires and wishes?
Imagine never being able to express any belief or opinion unless you have complete proof that it is true. And keep in mind that most people don't understand logic enough to even be able to know what is proof and what is not proof.
02 Dec 2017, 5:28 pm
Quote:
So everyone has to be able to prove that every statement that they make is true? There is no room for opinion or belief?
If they're going to make or influence public policy then yes they need to be able to back what they say up. They should be able to give a well reasoned argument. Ben Shapiro has a set of beliefs he wants public policy made upon. One is that the reason people who are chronically poor are not good with money. He should be able to explain why they are not good with money. If it turns out that most of the subset of people he is talking about has a mental illness then we at least have established a high coorelation with those with mental illness and those who are not good with money. Those like him come to overly simplistic conclusions without an indepth analysis.
If it is an opinion on things like food and what tastes good then opinion is fine and nothing needs proving.
Quote:
And who has the final authority to determine which is the correct interpretation of God's desires and wishes?
Good Question! I have no idea. And there in lies the problem with conservative christian thought who wish to make public policy.
Quote:
Imagine never being able to express any belief or opinion unless you have complete proof that it is true.
I said this?
Quote:
And keep in mind that most people don't understand logic enough to even be able to know what is proof and what is not proof.
Tell me about it!
02 Dec 2017, 5:47 pm
The_Walrus wrote:
Work should be something you choose to do in order to pass the time and get luxuries, not something that you have to do to survive. This would also allow for the minimum wage to be scrapped, creating jobs, and would add demand to the economy, creating even more jobs, and would increase leisure time, creating even more jobs.
I think you'd be surprised. Certainly at government level, we seem to be worse than the Americans. Sly would be found "fit to work" here and have all his benefits taken away.
I think there are a few important differences. Firstly, our governments tend to dress cuts up as unfortunate but necessary and a good way to help disabled people (their logic is never quite explained). Republicans are often much more strident, appealing to their base rather than caring what the opposition think.
I can't remember what my second point was going to be, but I think perhaps we forget just how popular "scrounger" rhetoric is, particularly among working class conservatives.
hurtloam wrote:
The USA really seems to have more of an issue with this than the UK. We find it puzzling that so many Americans don't care about the less advantaged.
I think you'd be surprised. Certainly at government level, we seem to be worse than the Americans. Sly would be found "fit to work" here and have all his benefits taken away.
I think there are a few important differences. Firstly, our governments tend to dress cuts up as unfortunate but necessary and a good way to help disabled people (their logic is never quite explained). Republicans are often much more strident, appealing to their base rather than caring what the opposition think.
I can't remember what my second point was going to be, but I think perhaps we forget just how popular "scrounger" rhetoric is, particularly among working class conservatives.
Hmm yeah the scrounger thing does get carted out a lot.
I totally disagree that: 'Everyone should be provided a living, even if they can work. '
How would that work practically? Who is going to pay for the roof over their head? Who would be a cleaner? Who would work in a supermarket?
There would be a lot more resentment and there really would be skivers. I don't want some layabout skiving off me. I'm happy to support someone through taxes who can't work full time due to to illness or mental abilities or lack thereof or maybe just bad economic circumstances because jobs have become hard to find, but im not supporting an able bodied person who refuses to graft and I don't see why I should.
I have CFS and I've found a full time job that I can manage with my health issues. It's boring at times, but it doesn't stress me out or make me ill like my previous job/career.
If even I, will my issues, can manage to work full time I don't see why an able person should doss about on their bum.
Problem is when all people who can't work, who really can't, are viewed as skivers. Thats wrong. Some people really can't cope. A job shouldn't kill you.
03 Dec 2017, 2:04 am
I’m mostly a led bodied. So would you think I’m a thief for being on government aid too?
I’d still work even if tomorrow I won 500 million dollars. I just can’t work full Tim or atleast haven’t found any jobs I could manage to work full time. Maybe if there was a stress free inside job close to bus rout. But such a job doesn’t exist.
03 Dec 2017, 2:54 am
hurtloam wrote:
The USA really seems to have more of an issue with this than the UK. We find it puzzling that so many Americans don't care about the less advantaged.
Most everyone feels poor, so there's not much sympathy for poorer people.
"Hey, I'm struggling too" is the general attitude.
If you have higher income, you buy a nicer house, and pay high mortgage debt for 30 years.
Money buys you a higher standard of living, but you still struggle to keep it.
_________________
After a failure, the easiest thing to do is to blame someone else.
kokopelli
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03 Dec 2017, 2:48 pm
sly279 wrote:
I’m mostly a led bodied. So would you think I’m a thief for being on government aid too?
I’d still work even if tomorrow I won 500 million dollars. I just can’t work full Tim or atleast haven’t found any jobs I could manage to work full time. Maybe if there was a stress free inside job close to bus rout. But such a job doesn’t exist.
I’d still work even if tomorrow I won 500 million dollars. I just can’t work full Tim or atleast haven’t found any jobs I could manage to work full time. Maybe if there was a stress free inside job close to bus rout. But such a job doesn’t exist.
What's "led bodied"?
If I won 500 million dollars, I wouldn't quit working, but I would probably hire a chauffeur. I hate driving.
03 Dec 2017, 4:08 pm
kokopelli wrote:
sly279 wrote:
I’m mostly a led bodied. So would you think I’m a thief for being on government aid too?
I’d still work even if tomorrow I won 500 million dollars. I just can’t work full Tim or atleast haven’t found any jobs I could manage to work full time. Maybe if there was a stress free inside job close to bus rout. But such a job doesn’t exist.
I’d still work even if tomorrow I won 500 million dollars. I just can’t work full Tim or atleast haven’t found any jobs I could manage to work full time. Maybe if there was a stress free inside job close to bus rout. But such a job doesn’t exist.
What's "led bodied"?
If I won 500 million dollars, I wouldn't quit working, but I would probably hire a chauffeur. I hate driving.
Abled. It took out the b hence “a led”
I liked driving, I’d buy a Porsche 911 turbo and drive it to work.
kokopelli
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Joined: 27 Nov 2017
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,657
Location: amid the sunlight and the dust and the wind
03 Dec 2017, 5:13 pm
sly279 wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
sly279 wrote:
I’m mostly a led bodied. So would you think I’m a thief for being on government aid too?
I’d still work even if tomorrow I won 500 million dollars. I just can’t work full Tim or atleast haven’t found any jobs I could manage to work full time. Maybe if there was a stress free inside job close to bus rout. But such a job doesn’t exist.
I’d still work even if tomorrow I won 500 million dollars. I just can’t work full Tim or atleast haven’t found any jobs I could manage to work full time. Maybe if there was a stress free inside job close to bus rout. But such a job doesn’t exist.
What's "led bodied"?
If I won 500 million dollars, I wouldn't quit working, but I would probably hire a chauffeur. I hate driving.
Abled. It took out the b hence “a led”
I liked driving, I’d buy a Porsche 911 turbo and drive it to work.
That makes sense. I wouldn't have thought about that. At least, not quickly.
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