I predict Trump will be re-elected in 2020 !

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Kraichgauer
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07 Dec 2017, 2:52 am

EzraS wrote:
Probably a lot of people consider land development more important than more piles of bones and pottery shards.


And a lot of people consider saving those so called piles of bones to be important. A lot of others care about being able to go camping and hiking in public lands - - try doing that if those lands get turned into private property.


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07 Dec 2017, 3:00 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
ScarletIbis wrote:
I am going to play the neutral card on this. My only comment is that Trump reminds me of John Adams. He will do/has done some good things but ultimately the bad things he does just cancels it out until eventually he won’t be mentioned like Washington or Lincoln. He will probably just be listed but not described in a presidential timeline 50 years from now. If you mention the good things the bad things always get brought up so might as well say nothing.


I actually think that if this period of time becomes "the Age of the Strongman," then Trump will be remembered for his attempt to bring fascistic populism to America, just as Putin had done in Russia, and Erdogan had done in Turkey, and that he - like they - had ridden in on a wave of racist nationalism, religious bigotry, xenophobia, nativism, homophobia, and general wide spread fear of change.


Have to wonder how much of that was motivated by the liberalism/pc/sjw movement to try force changing so many things. Maybe too many got sick of having so much "rammed down their throats". I'm not sure that a radical force of change movement is really any better than a strongman.



EzraS
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07 Dec 2017, 3:13 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Probably a lot of people consider land development more important than more piles of bones and pottery shards.


And a lot of people consider saving those so called piles of bones to be important. A lot of others care about being able to go camping and hiking in public lands - - try doing that if those lands get turned into private property.


Wehereas a lot of people think there's already an abundance of it. How many acres of hiking and excavating still remain? Are the areas being converted to public land even used or is it what everyone drives through to get to the good parts? I know with Nevada state and national parks, a lot of the surrounding outskirts of them are just miles of wasteland.



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07 Dec 2017, 4:27 am

He named Jerusalem as capital of Israel, that's probably his greatest achievement in his eyes. wow/ sarcasm.



Kraichgauer
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07 Dec 2017, 6:10 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Probably a lot of people consider land development more important than more piles of bones and pottery shards.


And a lot of people consider saving those so called piles of bones to be important. A lot of others care about being able to go camping and hiking in public lands - - try doing that if those lands get turned into private property.


Wehereas a lot of people think there's already an abundance of it. How many acres of hiking and excavating still remain? Are the areas being converted to public land even used or is it what everyone drives through to get to the good parts? I know with Nevada state and national parks, a lot of the surrounding outskirts of them are just miles of wasteland.


We've had much of these protected areas since the days of Teddy Roosevelt, so in most cases it's not as if the government is gobbling up land "from the people for the sake of the elites." In fact, it's the exact opposite, as those public lands are open to all of us, rather than being the private property of business elites.
Even in those areas that seem empty, there's an abundance of wild life.
As for your previous post: it's hardly a matter of liberal SJWs thoughtlessly seizing land in question here, but rather it was Native Americans in Utah who wanted to preserve a part of their cultural past. Hardly comparable to a fascist strongman, unless you're of the Alt Right opinion that whites are somehow being oppressed by minorities.


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07 Dec 2017, 6:39 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
ScarletIbis wrote:
I am going to play the neutral card on this. My only comment is that Trump reminds me of John Adams. He will do/has done some good things but ultimately the bad things he does just cancels it out until eventually he won’t be mentioned like Washington or Lincoln. He will probably just be listed but not described in a presidential timeline 50 years from now. If you mention the good things the bad things always get brought up so might as well say nothing.


I actually think that if this period of time becomes "the Age of the Strongman," then Trump will be remembered for his attempt to bring fascistic populism to America, just as Putin had done in Russia, and Erdogan had done in Turkey, and that he - like they - had ridden in on a wave of racist nationalism.


Have to wonder maybe too many got sick of having so much "rammed down their throats." I'm not sure that a radical force of change movement is really any better than a strongman.


Yeah, and maybe the non talks about climate change happening right now in the world, mainly via high diesal emissions had sworn in the only women to employ civil partnerships, to act as the official surrogate for his failed entourage, giving the women of Paris really something to moan.. and worry their French about.



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07 Dec 2017, 8:52 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Probably a lot of people consider land development more important than more piles of bones and pottery shards.


And a lot of people consider saving those so called piles of bones to be important. A lot of others care about being able to go camping and hiking in public lands - - try doing that if those lands get turned into private property.


Wehereas a lot of people think there's already an abundance of it. How many acres of hiking and excavating still remain? Are the areas being converted to public land even used or is it what everyone drives through to get to the good parts? I know with Nevada state and national parks, a lot of the surrounding outskirts of them are just miles of wasteland.


We've had much of these protected areas since the days of Teddy Roosevelt, so in most cases it's not as if the government is gobbling up land "from the people for the sake of the elites." In fact, it's the exact opposite, as those public lands are open to all of us, rather than being the private property of business elites.
Even in those areas that seem empty, there's an abundance of wild life.
As for your previous post: it's hardly a matter of liberal SJWs thoughtlessly seizing land in question here, but rather it was Native Americans in Utah who wanted to preserve a part of their cultural past. Hardly comparable to a fascist strongman, unless you're of the Alt Right opinion that whites are somehow being oppressed by minorities.


Isn't there an abundance of wildlife most everywhere that's undevelped? And I'm wondering how this country would fare if it weren't for the businesses eletes. Perhaps like a deeply impoverished third world s**thole.

As for my previous post, it was made separately for a reason. Your conglomerating the two distorts what I was saying.

So I'll reiterate. When it comes to many matters, not just the Bears and Ears monument, but many things. Liberalism consisting of the whole pc sjw antifa et al forcing change on society, really doesn't seem much better or less fascist than a strongman government.

And I don't think one has to be alt-right to see the blatantly deep-seated hatred liberalism has for white people who aren't liberals and would clearly like to see them eliminated.

Liberalism really just seems to be redirection of fascism and bigoty, rather than an elimination.



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07 Dec 2017, 9:47 am

EzraS wrote:
Probably a lot of people consider land development more important than collecting more piles of bones and pottery shards. Have to wonder how many crates of that kinda stuff is already stacked in museum archives.

I'd rather have the bones and pottery than mining and drilling.Its not land development for homes,but for the petrochemical cronies to exploit for their profit.
Wide open undeveloped spaces are shrinking everyday,to me that's more important.


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07 Dec 2017, 10:42 am

EzraS wrote:
Probably a lot of people consider land development more important than collecting more piles of bones and pottery shards. Have to wonder how many crates of that kinda stuff is already stacked in museum archives.

There is still a lot to discover from digging up dinosaurs fossils. As for land development: if the private industry is so great, why don't they found way to better use land space; it's not like they can't find inspiration from outside North America.


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07 Dec 2017, 10:56 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Trump's just gave up protected government lands in Utah that have been sacred to Native American tribes living there, as well as huge deposits of dinosaur bones which is a Paleontologist's dream. He says he's giving this land "back to the people," but the thing is, IT ALREADY IS ALL OUR LAND! We all have the right to visit there, go camping, hiking, or do important work digging up the earth's prehistoric past life, etc. What this opens up to is potentially private business developing those wild areas which would be closed off to the public, and would destroy fossils and artifacts. Buying up public lands by business - called the Wise Use movement - has been a wet dream of the private sector for decades now. And Trump is making that dream of theirs come true.


I have a lot of respect for paleontologists such as Robert Bakker and Dinosaur George. I'll take their side any day over corrupt politicians. Unfortunately, a lot of people think watching Jurassic Park makes them instant dinosaur experts and don't care to read the textbooks or go to museums. :(

Funnily enough, Trump resembles B.P. Richfield from Jim Henson's Dinosaurs! :lol: x a million:



Last edited by Marknis on 07 Dec 2017, 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

EzraS
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07 Dec 2017, 11:05 am

Misslizard wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Probably a lot of people consider land development more important than collecting more piles of bones and pottery shards. Have to wonder how many crates of that kinda stuff is already stacked in museum archives.

I'd rather have the bones and pottery than mining and drilling.Its not land development for homes,but for the petrochemical cronies to exploit for their profit.
Wide open undeveloped spaces are shrinking everyday,to me that's more important.


Tollorin wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Probably a lot of people consider land development more important than collecting more piles of bones and pottery shards. Have to wonder how many crates of that kinda stuff is already stacked in museum archives.

There is still a lot to discover from digging up dinosaurs fossils. As for land development: if the private industry is so great, why don't they found way to better use land space; it's not like they can't find inspiration from outside North America.


What do you think North America would be like without private industry? What of all those evil private industry owners just quit and closed down their businesses?



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07 Dec 2017, 11:37 am

EzraS wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Probably a lot of people consider land development more important than collecting more piles of bones and pottery shards. Have to wonder how many crates of that kinda stuff is already stacked in museum archives.

I'd rather have the bones and pottery than mining and drilling.Its not land development for homes,but for the petrochemical cronies to exploit for their profit.
Wide open undeveloped spaces are shrinking everyday,to me that's more important.


Tollorin wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Probably a lot of people consider land development more important than collecting more piles of bones and pottery shards. Have to wonder how many crates of that kinda stuff is already stacked in museum archives.

There is still a lot to discover from digging up dinosaurs fossils. As for land development: if the private industry is so great, why don't they found way to better use land space; it's not like they can't find inspiration from outside North America.


What do you think North America would be like without private industry? What of all those evil private industry owners just quit and closed down their businesses?

Nobody's asking them to close their doors.
Just to not dump chemicals in the air or water,poison their workers,don't develop pristine areas.
Every hear of cancer alley in Louisiana?Sure they had jobs,(that didn't pay well),now they have cancer and polluted land and water.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... nvironment
Same for farmland,we need food more than condos.


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07 Dec 2017, 2:11 pm

Marknis wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Trump's just gave up protected government lands in Utah that have been sacred to Native American tribes living there, as well as huge deposits of dinosaur bones which is a Paleontologist's dream. He says he's giving this land "back to the people," but the thing is, IT ALREADY IS ALL OUR LAND! We all have the right to visit there, go camping, hiking, or do important work digging up the earth's prehistoric past life, etc. What this opens up to is potentially private business developing those wild areas which would be closed off to the public, and would destroy fossils and artifacts. Buying up public lands by business - called the Wise Use movement - has been a wet dream of the private sector for decades now. And Trump is making that dream of theirs come true.


I have a lot of respect for paleontologists such as Robert Bakker and Dinosaur George. I'll take their side any day over corrupt politicians. Unfortunately, a lot of people think watching Jurassic Park makes them instant dinosaur experts and don't care to read the textbooks or go to museums. :(

Funnily enough, Trump resembles B.P. Richfield from Jim Henson's Dinosaurs! :lol: x a million:


No disagreement from me, here! :lol:


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07 Dec 2017, 2:21 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
Tollorin wrote:
rvacountrysinger wrote:
B19 wrote:
Great presidents are unifiers not divisive, with leadership ability and personal stability. As Trump has none of these, re-election would be a disaster for the USA, it will be marginalised by the international community and its traditional allies will be unlikely to want to continue alliances that have lasted decades for the benefit of the USA in particular in terms of intelligence. Trump is widely disliked by America's closest allies as no other president has ever been. Doesn't that tell you something? His continuous disrepect for facts (other than his manufactured facts which are mostly lies) has degraded respect for America, and contrary to what Trump has preached to his believers, the USA cannot go it alone as an isolationist state. It needs trading partners, it needs goodwill from its allies, and Trump has made the USA a laughing stock, which is a very sad state of affairs. His irrationality and mental instability is incompatible with power and he doesn't seem to realise that he can't make up the rules as he goes along to suit himself. Your prediction may come true, but if it does, then it may please those apocalypist-wishing Christians who want to see the four horses and to Hell with people who don't share their religious views. It is all tragic and sad. I feel deeply for Americans as they are contending with a terrible set of circumstances, and it is unlikely they will not learn from the abundant evidence of the disaster that Trump is for the USA.



Actually, Trump is one of the best things that has happened to America. He is the Trumpet of truth , and he is getting things done. ( or at least, in earnest) But the Democ-rats keep putting up road blocks in front of him ,stalling progress. The economy is really picking up, though, and he is doing a great job with foreign affairs. If only he would get the wall built sooner. Also, you are wrong, because a lot of people were upset about Ronald Reagan at first, because the negative naysayers are the ones who divide. But , later on Reagan became a great unifier. Barack Obama certainly was not. He wasn't fit to judge a pie eating contest at the county fair, much less run our country. I hope he goes away gracefully.

What he's so great about?
Selling national parks? ...


I hate to defend Trump, but just what national parks as he sold? Who did he sell them to?

Trump does so many things for honest people to complain about that there is no need to make things up.


Trump's just gave up protected government lands in Utah that have been sacred to Native American tribes living there, as well as huge deposits of dinosaur bones which is a Paleontologist's dream. He says he's giving this land "back to the people," but the thing is, IT ALREADY IS ALL OUR LAND! We all have the right to visit there, go camping, hiking, or do important work digging up the earth's prehistoric past life, etc. What this opens up to is potentially private business developing those wild areas which would be closed off to the public, and would destroy fossils and artifacts. Buying up public lands by business - called the Wise Use movement - has been a wet dream of the private sector for decades now. And Trump is making that dream of theirs come true.


Wasn't this land only put under the protected status not long ago by Obama? Was there a big problem with the land being developed before that? Were people destroying fossils and artifacts?

Do you really think that this will end up with the land being sold to businesses? How does this make that dream come true?



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07 Dec 2017, 2:22 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Probably a lot of people consider land development more important than more piles of bones and pottery shards.


And a lot of people consider saving those so called piles of bones to be important. A lot of others care about being able to go camping and hiking in public lands - - try doing that if those lands get turned into private property.


Do you have any cites for plans to sell those lands?



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07 Dec 2017, 2:30 pm

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Probably a lot of people consider land development more important than more piles of bones and pottery shards.


And a lot of people consider saving those so called piles of bones to be important. A lot of others care about being able to go camping and hiking in public lands - - try doing that if those lands get turned into private property.


Wehereas a lot of people think there's already an abundance of it. How many acres of hiking and excavating still remain? Are the areas being converted to public land even used or is it what everyone drives through to get to the good parts? I know with Nevada state and national parks, a lot of the surrounding outskirts of them are just miles of wasteland.


We've had much of these protected areas since the days of Teddy Roosevelt, so in most cases it's not as if the government is gobbling up land "from the people for the sake of the elites." In fact, it's the exact opposite, as those public lands are open to all of us, rather than being the private property of business elites.
Even in those areas that seem empty, there's an abundance of wild life.
As for your previous post: it's hardly a matter of liberal SJWs thoughtlessly seizing land in question here, but rather it was Native Americans in Utah who wanted to preserve a part of their cultural past. Hardly comparable to a fascist strongman, unless you're of the Alt Right opinion that whites are somehow being oppressed by minorities.


Isn't there an abundance of wildlife most everywhere that's undevelped? And I'm wondering how this country would fare if it weren't for the businesses eletes. Perhaps like a deeply impoverished third world s**thole.

As for my previous post, it was made separately for a reason. Your conglomerating the two distorts what I was saying.

So I'll reiterate. When it comes to many matters, not just the Bears and Ears monument, but many things. Liberalism consisting of the whole pc sjw antifa et al forcing change on society, really doesn't seem much better or less fascist than a strongman government.

And I don't think one has to be alt-right to see the blatantly deep-seated hatred liberalism has for white people who aren't liberals and would clearly like to see them eliminated.

Liberalism really just seems to be redirection of fascism and bigoty, rather than an elimination.


Our country has pristine wilderness that has been spoiled, or is in the process of being spoiled, in other countries. The difference is, we appreciate what we have, and thus try to preserve it. MissLizzard is quite correct about how even so, private enterprise has done it's part to do harm to the environment - and the local people - all for the sake of making a buck. The right might have the shell of an argument if said businesses were paying their employees what they were worth and growing the economy, but they clearly aren't.
And hatred of white people? Please! Sure, there are SJW types who can be accused of such a thing, but most liberals are pro-union, and pro-worker's rights, which mostly benefits whites. Unfortunately, the forces of reaction (who represent those polluting, low paying businesses) have managed to convince too many whites losing ground that those stealing from them are those who have it worse than said working class white people, getting them to vote against their own economic interests. And yes, I do know of what I speak of, as I was raised in a working class, union household. My dad, who had been a staunch union man, was heart broken by the way so many guys he worked with were manipulated to turn to the the anti-union, pro-business right.


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