I predict Trump will be re-elected in 2020 !

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Kraichgauer
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17 Dec 2017, 2:43 am

Hyeokgeose wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Yes, there is natural climate change.

But the warming has accelerated far more than what could be "natural."

What took decades/centuries are now taking mere years.


Yes, and it's absurd to say that it's been disproven, as almost 100% of scientists agree that climate change is man made, save for a tiny minority of corporate shills who repeat the anti-global warming line that was scripted by their bosses.


I actually studied that study, and funny thing is, my teacher is staunchly pro-global warming; but, she was the one that pointed out to us the fallacy in that survey. Every survey I've found that have ended with that kind of statistic have been based almost entirely on Environmental Scientists, of which don't really study the patterns of climate. From my experience, when I was in Houston, just about every geologist I've talked to and studies we came across, have said that climate change is purely natural and that human influence, if any, is at most minute.

Environmental scientists from the United Nations, which is quite environmentalist, have come out and said that human influence is very small at this point, barely increasing global temperatures by the end of the century.

At this point, if we want to cut down on human influence on the climate, if there's any (I'm skeptical of all science -- everyone should be, that's how progress is made), then we need to look to Asia (mostly China and India, the greatest polluters). The US and Europe are pretty clean, even gasoline powered cars are fairly clean nowadays.


Granted, but not every geologist you met is every geologist.


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Hyeokgeose
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17 Dec 2017, 2:50 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Hyeokgeose wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Yes, there is natural climate change.

But the warming has accelerated far more than what could be "natural."

What took decades/centuries are now taking mere years.


Yes, and it's absurd to say that it's been disproven, as almost 100% of scientists agree that climate change is man made, save for a tiny minority of corporate shills who repeat the anti-global warming line that was scripted by their bosses.


I actually studied that study, and funny thing is, my teacher is staunchly pro-global warming; but, she was the one that pointed out to us the fallacy in that survey. Every survey I've found that have ended with that kind of statistic have been based almost entirely on Environmental Scientists, of which don't really study the patterns of climate. From my experience, when I was in Houston, just about every geologist I've talked to and studies we came across, have said that climate change is purely natural and that human influence, if any, is at most minute.

Environmental scientists from the United Nations, which is quite environmentalist, have come out and said that human influence is very small at this point, barely increasing global temperatures by the end of the century.

At this point, if we want to cut down on human influence on the climate, if there's any (I'm skeptical of all science -- everyone should be, that's how progress is made), then we need to look to Asia (mostly China and India, the greatest polluters). The US and Europe are pretty clean, even gasoline powered cars are fairly clean nowadays.


Granted, but not every geologist you met is every geologist.


Indeed, just my observation so far. I also find that they are the biggest voices in opposing global warming alarmists.

At the end of the day, the squeakiest wheel gets the oil, doesn't it.


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Tollorin
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17 Dec 2017, 7:53 am

EzraS wrote:
It seems like the man made climate change situation is over dramatized and modernization such as electrical cars eventually replacing gas driven cars etc is going to happen anyways as we progress into the 20th century. Probably a lot if not most of the things they say are causing climate change are becoming more and more antiquated, and their use will diminish, simply as a matter of progress.

Studies of the data on the ground show that the more pessimistic models are the one closest to reality, so scientists are over dramatizing, if anything their cautious mean they are under dramatizing. Even if we would cease all emissions tomorrow morning, then global warming would still happen as what we already dumped into the atmosphere is far from over in warming the planet; things are pretty bad. :(

Hyeokgeose wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Yes, there is natural climate change.

But the warming has accelerated far more than what could be "natural."

What took decades/centuries are now taking mere years.


Yes, and it's absurd to say that it's been disproven, as almost 100% of scientists agree that climate change is man made, save for a tiny minority of corporate shills who repeat the anti-global warming line that was scripted by their bosses.


I actually studied that study, and funny thing is, my teacher is staunchly pro-global warming; but, she was the one that pointed out to us the fallacy in that survey. Every survey I've found that have ended with that kind of statistic have been based almost entirely on Environmental Scientists, of which don't really study the patterns of climate. From my experience, when I was in Houston, just about every geologist I've talked to and studies we came across, have said that climate change is purely natural and that human influence, if any, is at most minute.

Environmental scientists from the United Nations, which is quite environmentalist, have come out and said that human influence is very small at this point, barely increasing global temperatures by the end of the century.

At this point, if we want to cut down on human influence on the climate, if there's any (I'm skeptical of all science -- everyone should be, that's how progress is made), then we need to look to Asia (mostly China and India, the greatest polluters). The US and Europe are pretty clean, even gasoline powered cars are fairly clean nowadays.

A lot of geologists don't believe in man made global warming, but I don't see them give scientific reasons beside "it already happened in the past"; I think they may be too "down to earth" to take the measure of the huge scale of time they are working it and thus don't see how the speed of current climate change is unusual. Some string theorists also seem to not believe it, but they are ill placed to give lessons on science, and it's way outside of their domain.

I don't know where you have taken that scientists of United Nation have said that human influence is very small, as credible sources keep saying that it's right now the main influence.

The US and Europe been cleaner on air pollution is about fine particles emissions, not CO2; it allow peoples in the cities to breath more-or-less clean air, which is a good thing, but cars are still emitting greenhouse effects gas as those one are hard to filter and are inherent of the combustion of organic fuels.



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17 Dec 2017, 9:30 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Yes, there is natural climate change.

But the warming has accelerated far more than what could be "natural."

What took decades/centuries are now taking mere years.


Yes, and it's absurd to say that it's been disproven, as almost 100% of scientists agree that climate change is man made, save for a tiny minority of corporate shills who repeat the anti-global warming line that was scripted by their bosses.


I think that real climate scientists would generally agree that some part is man-made and some part natural. The disagreement would be on how much of each.

Without global warming, we'd be in trouble today. During the period known as The Little Ice Age, life was much harsher and starvation much more common. In some places, people would have to grind tree bark up to make flour. Is that what you'd like us to do now?

Like it or not, we all benefit greatly from global warming today.


Unless it gets out of hand, and and the earth turns into Dune. Be nice to today's earthworms because they'll be tomorrow's sand worms!


It isn't going to turn into Dune. Quite the opposite is overwhelmingly more likely.

Warmer air can carry more water vapor and thus produce rain. Ever wonder why rain is so often the result of warmer air containing water vapor meets colder air?

Look back at the Anasazi people. They had enough water to survive out in the middle of what is now desert. A common explanation of their moving away from their dwellings is that drought made the area uninhabitable. Guess what! The time period for that drought matches with the cooling during the early parts of the Little Ice Age.

What was it like during the Climatic Optimum? According to various studies, the Gobi Desert was a forest, the Sahara Desert was green, and the desert in northern Mexico is thought to have had much more moisture than now.

Look at the places on Earth where it is driest. Many consider the Atacama Desert to be the driest place on Earth. Can you imagine going hundreds of years with no rain? It's happened there. There were dirt houses built several hundred years ago that until the 1960s showed absolutely no sign of rain. Since then, with warmer temperatures, it has rained (I think, twice).

Another candidate for the driest place on Earth is an area in Antarctica. It is so dry that the ground is bare. There is no ice or snow at all. What tiny bit of precipitation they get is so little that it easily lost by sublimation -- the water molecules turn directly from ice to vapor without going through a liquid stage -- a very slow process.

No. The Earth isn't going to become like Dune as a result of Global Warming.



Kraichgauer
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17 Dec 2017, 1:26 pm

kokopelli wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Yes, there is natural climate change.

But the warming has accelerated far more than what could be "natural."

What took decades/centuries are now taking mere years.


Yes, and it's absurd to say that it's been disproven, as almost 100% of scientists agree that climate change is man made, save for a tiny minority of corporate shills who repeat the anti-global warming line that was scripted by their bosses.


I think that real climate scientists would generally agree that some part is man-made and some part natural. The disagreement would be on how much of each.

Without global warming, we'd be in trouble today. During the period known as The Little Ice Age, life was much harsher and starvation much more common. In some places, people would have to grind tree bark up to make flour. Is that what you'd like us to do now?

Like it or not, we all benefit greatly from global warming today.


Unless it gets out of hand, and and the earth turns into Dune. Be nice to today's earthworms because they'll be tomorrow's sand worms!


It isn't going to turn into Dune. Quite the opposite is overwhelmingly more likely.

Warmer air can carry more water vapor and thus produce rain. Ever wonder why rain is so often the result of warmer air containing water vapor meets colder air?

Look back at the Anasazi people. They had enough water to survive out in the middle of what is now desert. A common explanation of their moving away from their dwellings is that drought made the area uninhabitable. Guess what! The time period for that drought matches with the cooling during the early parts of the Little Ice Age.

What was it like during the Climatic Optimum? According to various studies, the Gobi Desert was a forest, the Sahara Desert was green, and the desert in northern Mexico is thought to have had much more moisture than now.

Look at the places on Earth where it is driest. Many consider the Atacama Desert to be the driest place on Earth. Can you imagine going hundreds of years with no rain? It's happened there. There were dirt houses built several hundred years ago that until the 1960s showed absolutely no sign of rain. Since then, with warmer temperatures, it has rained (I think, twice).

Another candidate for the driest place on Earth is an area in Antarctica. It is so dry that the ground is bare. There is no ice or snow at all. What tiny bit of precipitation they get is so little that it easily lost by sublimation -- the water molecules turn directly from ice to vapor without going through a liquid stage -- a very slow process.

No. The Earth isn't going to become like Dune as a result of Global Warming.


But that would also mean more and bigger insects and spiders...THAT BITE! :pale:


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rvacountrysinger
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18 Dec 2017, 2:06 pm

Why can't people just stop being so negative, and give the president a chance? The economy is doing so much better and I feel like he's doing a very good job. He needs to build the wall faster, though



kokopelli
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18 Dec 2017, 4:46 pm

rvacountrysinger wrote:
Why can't people just stop being so negative, and give the president a chance? The economy is doing so much better and I feel like he's doing a very good job. He needs to build the wall faster, though


The wall won't do much of anything for our security. It would be much more cost effective to add more Border Patrol and Customs agents. The wall is just one big boondoggle to put billions of dollars in the hands of those influential people who will get the contracts to build it.



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18 Dec 2017, 6:06 pm

kokopelli wrote:
rvacountrysinger wrote:
Why can't people just stop being so negative, and give the president a chance? The economy is doing so much better and I feel like he's doing a very good job. He needs to build the wall faster, though


The wall won't do much of anything for our security. It would be much more cost effective to add more Border Patrol and Customs agents. The wall is just one big boondoggle to put billions of dollars in the hands of those influential people who will get the contracts to build it.


That, and fulfilling a campaign promise to the nativist element whose vote he'll need to get reelected.


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18 Dec 2017, 6:37 pm

rvacountrysinger wrote:
Why can't people just stop being so negative, and give the president a chance? The economy is doing so much better and I feel like he's doing a very good job. He needs to build the wall faster, though


Maybe a lot of us feel this way because we are sick of being told we are "weird" or "un-American" just because we don't mindlessly follow like sheep? Ever thought of that?



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18 Dec 2017, 7:10 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Yes, there is natural climate change.

But the warming has accelerated far more than what could be "natural."

What took decades/centuries are now taking mere years.


Yes, and it's absurd to say that it's been disproven, as almost 100% of scientists agree that climate change is man made, save for a tiny minority of corporate shills who repeat the anti-global warming line that was scripted by their bosses.


I think that real climate scientists would generally agree that some part is man-made and some part natural. The disagreement would be on how much of each.

Without global warming, we'd be in trouble today. During the period known as The Little Ice Age, life was much harsher and starvation much more common. In some places, people would have to grind tree bark up to make flour. Is that what you'd like us to do now?

Like it or not, we all benefit greatly from global warming today.


Unless it gets out of hand, and and the earth turns into Dune. Be nice to today's earthworms because they'll be tomorrow's sand worms!


It isn't going to turn into Dune. Quite the opposite is overwhelmingly more likely.

Warmer air can carry more water vapor and thus produce rain. Ever wonder why rain is so often the result of warmer air containing water vapor meets colder air?

Look back at the Anasazi people. They had enough water to survive out in the middle of what is now desert. A common explanation of their moving away from their dwellings is that drought made the area uninhabitable. Guess what! The time period for that drought matches with the cooling during the early parts of the Little Ice Age.

What was it like during the Climatic Optimum? According to various studies, the Gobi Desert was a forest, the Sahara Desert was green, and the desert in northern Mexico is thought to have had much more moisture than now.

Look at the places on Earth where it is driest. Many consider the Atacama Desert to be the driest place on Earth. Can you imagine going hundreds of years with no rain? It's happened there. There were dirt houses built several hundred years ago that until the 1960s showed absolutely no sign of rain. Since then, with warmer temperatures, it has rained (I think, twice).

Another candidate for the driest place on Earth is an area in Antarctica. It is so dry that the ground is bare. There is no ice or snow at all. What tiny bit of precipitation they get is so little that it easily lost by sublimation -- the water molecules turn directly from ice to vapor without going through a liquid stage -- a very slow process.

No. The Earth isn't going to become like Dune as a result of Global Warming.


But that would also mean more and bigger insects and spiders...THAT BITE! :pale:

and more violent storms and nastier allergens. biblical plagues to follow...



kokopelli
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18 Dec 2017, 7:16 pm

auntblabby wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
kokopelli wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Yes, there is natural climate change.

But the warming has accelerated far more than what could be "natural."

What took decades/centuries are now taking mere years.


Yes, and it's absurd to say that it's been disproven, as almost 100% of scientists agree that climate change is man made, save for a tiny minority of corporate shills who repeat the anti-global warming line that was scripted by their bosses.


I think that real climate scientists would generally agree that some part is man-made and some part natural. The disagreement would be on how much of each.

Without global warming, we'd be in trouble today. During the period known as The Little Ice Age, life was much harsher and starvation much more common. In some places, people would have to grind tree bark up to make flour. Is that what you'd like us to do now?

Like it or not, we all benefit greatly from global warming today.


Unless it gets out of hand, and and the earth turns into Dune. Be nice to today's earthworms because they'll be tomorrow's sand worms!


It isn't going to turn into Dune. Quite the opposite is overwhelmingly more likely.

Warmer air can carry more water vapor and thus produce rain. Ever wonder why rain is so often the result of warmer air containing water vapor meets colder air?

Look back at the Anasazi people. They had enough water to survive out in the middle of what is now desert. A common explanation of their moving away from their dwellings is that drought made the area uninhabitable. Guess what! The time period for that drought matches with the cooling during the early parts of the Little Ice Age.

What was it like during the Climatic Optimum? According to various studies, the Gobi Desert was a forest, the Sahara Desert was green, and the desert in northern Mexico is thought to have had much more moisture than now.

Look at the places on Earth where it is driest. Many consider the Atacama Desert to be the driest place on Earth. Can you imagine going hundreds of years with no rain? It's happened there. There were dirt houses built several hundred years ago that until the 1960s showed absolutely no sign of rain. Since then, with warmer temperatures, it has rained (I think, twice).

Another candidate for the driest place on Earth is an area in Antarctica. It is so dry that the ground is bare. There is no ice or snow at all. What tiny bit of precipitation they get is so little that it easily lost by sublimation -- the water molecules turn directly from ice to vapor without going through a liquid stage -- a very slow process.

No. The Earth isn't going to become like Dune as a result of Global Warming.


But that would also mean more and bigger insects and spiders...THAT BITE! :pale:

and more violent storms and nastier allergens. biblical plagues to follow...


There was some talk about how Global Warming would make hurricanes much worse. In reality, it appears that we are having fewer hurricanes the last few years, not more.

Also, there was some research at MIT that found that the greater wind shear at high altitudes due to Global Warming would limit the severity of hurricanes.



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18 Dec 2017, 7:26 pm

Marknis wrote:
rvacountrysinger wrote:
Why can't people just stop being so negative, and give the president a chance? The economy is doing so much better and I feel like he's doing a very good job. He needs to build the wall faster, though


Maybe a lot of us feel this way because we are sick of being told we are "weird" or "un-American" just because we don't mindlessly follow like sheep? Ever thought of that?


I'll say it again: I wish we had an emoticon for clapping hands!


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rvacountrysinger
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18 Dec 2017, 8:58 pm

Marknis wrote:
rvacountrysinger wrote:
Why can't people just stop being so negative, and give the president a chance? The economy is doing so much better and I feel like he's doing a very good job. He needs to build the wall faster, though


Maybe a lot of us feel this way because we are sick of being told we are "weird" or "un-American" just because we don't mindlessly follow like sheep? Ever thought of that?


No offense, but many , if not all of Trump's dissenters are kind of like sheep in their own way. They are mindlessly shouting and rioting, and carrying on, sort of like one great big cacophony.



auntblabby
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18 Dec 2017, 9:00 pm

^^^if you also were being systematically screwed over with malice aforethought, you'd be shouting and rioting and carrying on also. :|



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18 Dec 2017, 9:52 pm

rvacountrysinger wrote:
Marknis wrote:
rvacountrysinger wrote:
Why can't people just stop being so negative, and give the president a chance? The economy is doing so much better and I feel like he's doing a very good job. He needs to build the wall faster, though


Maybe a lot of us feel this way because we are sick of being told we are "weird" or "un-American" just because we don't mindlessly follow like sheep? Ever thought of that?


No offense, but many , if not all of Trump's dissenters are kind of like sheep in their own way. They are mindlessly shouting and rioting, and carrying on, sort of like one great big cacophony.


I and the Trump detractors I know do not riot. Why? We don't want to be shot by angry rednecks who are easily offended and are glass cannons. They create double standards on the spot to justify their childish anger.

auntblabby wrote:
^^^if you also were being systematically screwed over with malice aforethought, you'd be shouting and rioting and carrying on also. :|


Notice how it's ok for Trumpers to mock their opponents but if their opponents say anything to them, they get a fight on their hands?