Why do all white males get judged for privilege?

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Daniel89
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18 Jan 2018, 9:39 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
The goal may not be to punish people but that is the effect. They are not being held back by everyone else they may be being held back by a racist minority.


How are whites being punished? I certainly never felt punished for being white.


If you loose out for a job or university placement because of your skin colour then that is oppression.



Kraichgauer
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18 Jan 2018, 10:04 pm

Daniel89 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
The goal may not be to punish people but that is the effect. They are not being held back by everyone else they may be being held back by a racist minority.


How are whites being punished? I certainly never felt punished for being white.


If you loose out for a job or university placement because of your skin colour then that is oppression.


Well, that had never happened to me. I've heard of white people making that charge, but I've never heard of evidence backing it up.


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adifferentname
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19 Jan 2018, 4:09 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

No, it's not a strawman to say that whites are more likely to be hired over racial minorities, it is a fact.


It is a strawman to manufacture a position and claim it is mine, Bill. I can only assume you're being deliberately disingenuous at this point.

Quote:
I have provided examples - black and Latino unemployment is unconscionably high. Are you going to disagree with that fact?


That's not a fact, it's an opinion. Try again.


Quote:
You say I say: whites are falling behind "because they have immutable privilege?" I think you need to check your reading comprehension.


No, Bill. That's the logical conclusion of your arguments. I paraphrased in order to demonstrate the absurdity of your stated beliefs.

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And, "think of the children!" Talk about strawmen!


You're making an appeal to emotion on behalf of minorities and using said appeal as the justification for supporting your racist belief, rather than demonstrating actual privilege that is attached to skin colour. Not only is that not a strawman, it's actually a relatively benign criticism of how weak your argument is; I could have been a great deal more scathing, and justifiably so.

Quote:
The fact remains, white privilege is real.


Demonstrate it.

Quote:
It doesn't mean most of us exercise it consciously, or deliberately to grind down minorities.


You're chasing shadows now. This is as inane as the suggestion we should combat 'unconscious bias', which is the equivalent of chastising people for having nightmares.

Quote:
Privilege is something you almost never notice you have.


Provide research based evidence to support this assertion. N.B. unsupported claims from sociologists won't be considered to be evidence.

Quote:
But to deny it is to say that certain Americans who are not white are intellectually inferior, and criminally inclined. I refuse to believe that.


Strawman.

Quote:
But let's start over


No Bill. Your starting point is to respond to my earlier challenge, which you continue to evade. When you're willing to confront the inherent racism in the arguments you're supporting, we'll be able to move on.

Quote:
do you believe racism exists?


:roll:

Quote:
Do you accept that not all Americans are looked upon as equals


Do you not understand reason for the necessity of human rights in law?

Quote:
and that this more often than not is based on skin color?


And you believe that classifying people based on their skin colour is the solution to this problem Progressives have "identified"?

:lol:



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19 Jan 2018, 4:16 am

Piobaire wrote:
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Daniel89
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19 Jan 2018, 10:35 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
The goal may not be to punish people but that is the effect. They are not being held back by everyone else they may be being held back by a racist minority.


How are whites being punished? I certainly never felt punished for being white.


If you loose out for a job or university placement because of your skin colour then that is oppression.


Well, that had never happened to me. I've heard of white people making that charge, but I've never heard of evidence backing it up.


That is literally what affirmative action is.



Kraichgauer
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19 Jan 2018, 7:40 pm

Daniel89 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
The goal may not be to punish people but that is the effect. They are not being held back by everyone else they may be being held back by a racist minority.


How are whites being punished? I certainly never felt punished for being white.


If you loose out for a job or university placement because of your skin colour then that is oppression.


Well, that had never happened to me. I've heard of white people making that charge, but I've never heard of evidence backing it up.


That is literally what affirmative action is.


Well, have you personally ever lost out to a job or entry into college due to Affirmative Action?


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Kraichgauer
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19 Jan 2018, 7:47 pm

adifferentname wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

No, it's not a strawman to say that whites are more likely to be hired over racial minorities, it is a fact.


It is a strawman to manufacture a position and claim it is mine, Bill. I can only assume you're being deliberately disingenuous at this point.

Quote:
I have provided examples - black and Latino unemployment is unconscionably high. Are you going to disagree with that fact?


That's not a fact, it's an opinion. Try again.


Quote:
You say I say: whites are falling behind "because they have immutable privilege?" I think you need to check your reading comprehension.


No, Bill. That's the logical conclusion of your arguments. I paraphrased in order to demonstrate the absurdity of your stated beliefs.

Quote:
And, "think of the children!" Talk about strawmen!


You're making an appeal to emotion on behalf of minorities and using said appeal as the justification for supporting your racist belief, rather than demonstrating actual privilege that is attached to skin colour. Not only is that not a strawman, it's actually a relatively benign criticism of how weak your argument is; I could have been a great deal more scathing, and justifiably so.

Quote:
The fact remains, white privilege is real.


Demonstrate it.

Quote:
It doesn't mean most of us exercise it consciously, or deliberately to grind down minorities.


You're chasing shadows now. This is as inane as the suggestion we should combat 'unconscious bias', which is the equivalent of chastising people for having nightmares.

Quote:
Privilege is something you almost never notice you have.


Provide research based evidence to support this assertion. N.B. unsupported claims from sociologists won't be considered to be evidence.

Quote:
But to deny it is to say that certain Americans who are not white are intellectually inferior, and criminally inclined. I refuse to believe that.


Strawman.

Quote:
But let's start over


No Bill. Your starting point is to respond to my earlier challenge, which you continue to evade. When you're willing to confront the inherent racism in the arguments you're supporting, we'll be able to move on.

Quote:
do you believe racism exists?


:roll:

Quote:
Do you accept that not all Americans are looked upon as equals


Do you not understand reason for the necessity of human rights in law?

Quote:
and that this more often than not is based on skin color?


And you believe that classifying people based on their skin colour is the solution to this problem Progressives have "identified"?

:lol:


Oh yeah, I'm a racist for hating racism. Go back to the Bizarro planet.
You seriously think it's only a matter of opinion that racial minorities have higher unemployment rates than whites?!?! Seriously, go back to the Bizarro planet.
Of course I understand the necessity of human rights in law. That's why we have laws to redress racism.
Progressives only focus on skin color because racists have used laws and social norms against people of said skin color. You conservatives say that racism comes from anti-racism, but all that reveals is how you want to return to the good old bad days by turning back racial gains.


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Daniel89
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19 Jan 2018, 8:43 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
The goal may not be to punish people but that is the effect. They are not being held back by everyone else they may be being held back by a racist minority.


How are whites being punished? I certainly never felt punished for being white.


If you loose out for a job or university placement because of your skin colour then that is oppression.


Well, that had never happened to me. I've heard of white people making that charge, but I've never heard of evidence backing it up.


That is literally what affirmative action is.


Well, have you personally ever lost out to a job or entry into college due to Affirmative Action?


I am British we don't have affirmative action, just because I haven't been a victim of something doesn't mean I cannot see the injustice. I have however been mistreated by government in a similar manner, when I was in college age 16-18 people got £30 a week if their parents earn't less than £30k, my mother had become a teacher when I was already in my failing secondary school. I hadn't had a good education, I was living in an abusive home yet simply because my mother earned over £30k a year at the time the government deemed me privileged and I was denied the same treatment as everyone else I knew this further alienated me from society. If I had been treated equally my life would be so much better.



adifferentname
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19 Jan 2018, 8:50 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Oh yeah, I'm a racist for hating racism. Go back to the Bizarro planet.


You promote racist ideas. If you prefer not to be thought of as a racist, simply cease doing so.

Quote:
You seriously think it's only a matter of opinion that racial minorities have higher unemployment rates than whites?!?! Seriously, go back to the Bizarro planet.


Apparently you don't bother to read your own posts either.

"I have provided examples - black and Latino unemployment is unconscionably high. Are you going to disagree with that fact?"

The underlined word renders your statement an opinion.

Quote:
Of course I understand the necessity of human rights in law. That's why we have laws to redress racism.


Evidently not.

The laws are required because Americans are not equals, not because they are.

Quote:
Progressives only focus on skin color


Because they can't see past it.

Quote:
because racists have used laws and social norms against people of said skin color.


Name a non-Western nation that has better equality laws than the US. If you want to travel back in time and fight alongside MLK, better get inventing a time machine.

Quote:
You conservatives


Swing and a miss. That's how blinded you are by your partisanship and your adherence to Progressivism. You don't recognise a liberal argument when you're being beaten over the head with it.

Quote:
say that racism comes from anti-racism


Quote me as saying anything remotely like that. Your bigotry is showing, Bill. You fell straight back on "I disagree with you so you're in my out-group which is default bad" in order to justify the above strawman.

Quote:
but all that reveals is how you want to return to the good old bad days by turning back racial gains.


And thus do we reach the terminus of your infantile, fallacy riddled argument. "Agree with me or you're a racist because <bogeyman stereotype>".



Kraichgauer
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19 Jan 2018, 11:28 pm

adifferentname wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Oh yeah, I'm a racist for hating racism. Go back to the Bizarro planet.


You promote racist ideas. If you prefer not to be thought of as a racist, simply cease doing so.

Quote:
You seriously think it's only a matter of opinion that racial minorities have higher unemployment rates than whites?!?! Seriously, go back to the Bizarro planet.


Apparently you don't bother to read your own posts either.

"I have provided examples - black and Latino unemployment is unconscionably high. Are you going to disagree with that fact?"

The underlined word renders your statement an opinion.

Quote:
Of course I understand the necessity of human rights in law. That's why we have laws to redress racism.


Evidently not.

The laws are required because Americans are not equals, not because they are.

Quote:
Progressives only focus on skin color


Because they can't see past it.

Quote:
because racists have used laws and social norms against people of said skin color.


Name a non-Western nation that has better equality laws than the US. If you want to travel back in time and fight alongside MLK, better get inventing a time machine.

Quote:
You conservatives


Swing and a miss. That's how blinded you are by your partisanship and your adherence to Progressivism. You don't recognise a liberal argument when you're being beaten over the head with it.

Quote:
say that racism comes from anti-racism


Quote me as saying anything remotely like that. Your bigotry is showing, Bill. You fell straight back on "I disagree with you so you're in my out-group which is default bad" in order to justify the above strawman.

Quote:
but all that reveals is how you want to return to the good old bad days by turning back racial gains.


And thus do we reach the terminus of your infantile, fallacy riddled argument. "Agree with me or you're a racist because <bogeyman stereotype>".


Either you have zero interest in a rational debate, or you truly hail from the Bizarro planet.


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19 Jan 2018, 11:31 pm

Daniel89 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
The goal may not be to punish people but that is the effect. They are not being held back by everyone else they may be being held back by a racist minority.


How are whites being punished? I certainly never felt punished for being white.


If you loose out for a job or university placement because of your skin colour then that is oppression.


Well, that had never happened to me. I've heard of white people making that charge, but I've never heard of evidence backing it up.


That is literally what affirmative action is.


Well, have you personally ever lost out to a job or entry into college due to Affirmative Action?


I am British we don't have affirmative action, just because I haven't been a victim of something doesn't mean I cannot see the injustice. I have however been mistreated by government in a similar manner, when I was in college age 16-18 people got £30 a week if their parents earn't less than £30k, my mother had become a teacher when I was already in my failing secondary school. I hadn't had a good education, I was living in an abusive home yet simply because my mother earned over £30k a year at the time the government deemed me privileged and I was denied the same treatment as everyone else I knew this further alienated me from society. If I had been treated equally my life would be so much better.



I am sincerely sorry you've had to go through what you did. That said, taking your rage out at someone else - especially if they aren't in your country - isn't going to make it better.
If you seriously need to talk to somebody about what you're going through, then feel free to PM me.


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Daniel89
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19 Jan 2018, 11:36 pm

I'm not taking my rage out on anyone, I am making a principled argument that everyone should be equal under the law.



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19 Jan 2018, 11:44 pm

Daniel89 wrote:
I'm not taking my rage out on anyone, I am making a principled argument that everyone should be equal under the law.


The fact of the matter is, people were hardly equal under the law who were born with the wrong skin color. Racism still exists, and no, it didn't just appear with Affirmative Action. Nobody is being punished for giving others a hand up.
Forgive me, as an Aspie I am not as perceptive as I would like to be. I just pick up on a lot of anger about being shorted.


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20 Jan 2018, 12:01 am

So how it that the fault of an 18 year old white kid who has done no wrong? Why is it okay for the government to punish them?



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20 Jan 2018, 12:50 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Either you have zero interest in a rational debate, or you truly hail from the Bizarro planet.


Nothing left in the locker but ad hominem?

How sad.



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20 Jan 2018, 12:54 am

Daniel89 wrote:
So how it that the fault of an 18 year old white kid who has done no wrong? Why is it okay for the government to punish them?


Well you see, Daniel89, you were born a wrongskin. And wrongskins have to atone for the original sin they were born with - namely that of being born a wrongskin - because Progressives want to move forwards by burying everyone under a mountain of nonsense that happened before you were born (whilst projecting all over the place about how it's the evil conservatives [literally any non-Progressive] who have their heads stuck in the past) that you took no part in and yet which is somehow all entirely your fault.

Shame on you!