The frustration of the right and conservatives

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Hollywood_Guy
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17 Jan 2018, 7:39 pm

Why don't people seem to care about the frustrations the right or conservatives have about society? Or, why is it unpopular in today's society? I feel frankly very scared about where our society is heading with the modern trend leftward, and have a sense of doom about it even if everyone tells me things aren't as crazy. Even with all his controversies and outlandishness, forcing our current president out of office will not always bode well for society, especially in the more long-term. I get the emotionally sick feeling from it a lot. Our decline is only going to get worse, people don't understand or are just closed-minded. Overall, I will theoretically trade some of the social progress we made in the later 20th and 21st centuries for born and growing up, living in the America and society my parents and grandparents had growing up. The current context of society gets too hostile sometimes and I'm starting to question whether my own existence of living right now is worthwhile.

And even radical feminism and similar ideas on the left are not as unpopular nor hated as traditional conservative or other ideologies more right-leaning.



ValhallaX
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17 Jan 2018, 9:57 pm

Can you list some frustrations/concerns of conservatives you are thinking about?

To me their concerns are unfounded. What is so doom and gloom about liberal ideoligies? Two men having sex is a problem for them why? Mastrubation is a sin because a book says so?

In general, conservatives refuse or fail to see things objectively. They use their preconcieved notions as the ultimate truth. They refuse to accept facts, such as the Earth being millions of years old which can be proven with science. They are incapbable of seeing their own hyprocracy. How many Catholic preists are accussed of rape/molestation? Yet they point fingers at Muslims being pedophiles, and almost got Roy Moore elected in Alabama. Republican politicans stand for family values, but how many have mistresses? They're against abortion but have no problem with it when their mistresses get pregnant (Tim Murphy).

They're for state rights, but banning marijuana and gay marriage needs to be a federal law. They talk about free market captitalism and less regulation, but they repeal laws meant to keep the market fair and pass laws to limit competition. Look at how much trouble Google had trying to roll out Fiber in Kentucky. Time Warner Cable refused to provide boardband internet to a small town Wilson, NC. So the town decides to lay their own fiber, and immideatily NC Governor Pat McRory signs a law preventing/limiting municipal fiber. So if the free market is not able to provide broadband internet to a town isn't that a failure of the free market.

Why do some states have a law where car manufacturers can't sell cars directly? They have to be sold through dealerships, which provides very little value. They are just middlemen that increase the price of the car. What can a dealership do that a car manufacturer couldn't? If Ford wants to sell cars directly, but Dodge wants to sell through dealerhsips only where is the problem? Why is there a need for a law to limit how cars are sold? Apple sells iPhones in their own retail stores and sells to other retailers.

Lastly, take any conservative region. Look at their standard of living. Generally conservative areas are poorer, less developed, less educated, and more corrupt. Texas and Saudi Arabia/UAT are exceptions because their ecnomony is driven by oil. Take away the oil and see what happens. South Carolina takes more money from the federal govenment than it gives because of their "low taxes". They're a welfare state, but ironically they are a red state. How did lower taxes work out for Kansas?

Sorry for this rant, but I had to state all my reasons as quick as possible... :)



rvacountrysinger
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17 Jan 2018, 10:03 pm

Hollywood_Guy wrote:
Why don't people seem to care about the frustrations the right or conservatives have about society? Or, why is it unpopular in today's society? I feel frankly very scared about where our society is heading with the modern trend leftward, and have a sense of doom about it even if everyone tells me things aren't as crazy. Even with all his controversies and outlandishness, forcing our current president out of office will not always bode well for society, especially in the more long-term. I get the emotionally sick feeling from it a lot. Our decline is only going to get worse, people don't understand or are just closed-minded. Overall, I will theoretically trade some of the social progress we made in the later 20th and 21st centuries for born and growing up, living in the America and society my parents and grandparents had growing up. The current context of society gets too hostile sometimes and I'm starting to question whether my own existence of living right now is worthwhile.

And even radical feminism and similar ideas on the left are not as unpopular nor hated as traditional conservative or other ideologies more right-leaning.


I believe it largely has to do with the indoctrination that has been going on for the last few decades, particularly in the public school system and beyond. Colleges and Universities used to be, by and large , conservative. In the past 40 years they have been uber left leaning, save some of the more privately funded institutions.

Our country is becoming accepting of many things except being Conservative or Christian. Liberals whine about how Christians are a majority in America, but that doesn't change the underlying elitism pushed by globalists.
Just an example of a recent incident that shows liberal media and their logic, flyers were put up saying "it's okay to be white". Just a simple statement. And the media went into a frenzy calling it "white supremacy" and "hate speech". It's almost as if the left, in particular have become mindless robots. They repeat garbage they are told over and over. Such as climate change, "white privilege" , diversity is strength, etc. And if anyone seems to differ on these views, they are labeled as the wolf at the door. They can't help it. If you repeat a lie often enough, people start to believe it as truth. No one today is looking for truth. Liberals believe truth is "relative". They don't have objective truths.

Liberals in years past used to be reasonable and you could talk to them. Now they will shout in your face and call you "racist" before you can even finish a sentence. It's becoming an example of how mind programming works.



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17 Jan 2018, 10:10 pm

ValhallaX wrote:
Can you list some frustrations/concerns of conservatives you are thinking about?

To me their concerns are unfounded. What is so doom and gloom about liberal ideoligies? Two men having sex is a problem for them why? Mastrubation is a sin because a book says so?

In general, conservatives refuse or fail to see things objectively. They use their preconcieved notions as the ultimate truth. They refuse to accept facts, such as the Earth being millions of years old which can be proven with science. They are incapbable of seeing their own hyprocracy. How many Catholic preists are accussed of rape/molestation? Yet they point fingers at Muslims being pedophiles, and almost got Roy Moore elected in Alabama. Republican politicans stand for family values, but how many have mistresses? They're against abortion but have no problem with it when their mistresses get pregnant (Tim Murphy).

They're for state rights, but banning marijuana and gay marriage needs to be a federal law. They talk about free market captitalism and less regulation, but they repeal laws meant to keep the market fair and pass laws to limit competition. Look at how much trouble Google had trying to roll out Fiber in Kentucky. Time Warner Cable refused to provide boardband internet to a small town Wilson, NC. So the town decides to lay their own fiber, and immideatily NC Governor Pat McRory signs a law preventing/limiting municipal fiber. So if the free market is not able to provide broadband internet to a town isn't that a failure of the free market.

Why do some states have a law where car manufacturers can't sell cars directly? They have to be sold through dealerships, which provides very little value. They are just middlemen that increase the price of the car. What can a dealership do that a car manufacturer couldn't? If Ford wants to sell cars directly, but Dodge wants to sell through dealerhsips only where is the problem? Why is there a need for a law to limit how cars are sold? Apple sells iPhones in their own retail stores and sells to other retailers.

Lastly, take any conservative region. Look at their standard of living. Generally conservative areas are poorer, less developed, less educated, and more corrupt. Texas and Saudi Arabia/UAT are exceptions because their ecnomony is driven by oil. Take away the oil and see what happens. South Carolina takes more money from the federal govenment than it gives because of their "low taxes". They're a welfare state, but ironically they are a red state. How did lower taxes work out for Kansas?

Sorry for this rant, but I had to state all my reasons as quick as possible... :)


California has tons of poverty- it's a pretty liberal/progressive state. And look at Detroit. A city run by Democrats. Its dirt poor. Those are but a few examples, but really, listen to yourself. You say conservatives aren't objective. But liberals base almost all their platforms on emotion, rather than true facts. Its logical fallacy. They don't know truth. They make up their own truth. They don't even know how to change a flat tire, most of 'em.



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17 Jan 2018, 10:39 pm

Hollywood_Guy wrote:
Why don't people seem to care about the frustrations the right or conservatives have about society? Or, why is it unpopular in today's society? I feel frankly very scared about where our society is heading with the modern trend leftward, and have a sense of doom about it even if everyone tells me things aren't as crazy. Even with all his controversies and outlandishness, forcing our current president out of office will not always bode well for society, especially in the more long-term. I get the emotionally sick feeling from it a lot. Our decline is only going to get worse, people don't understand or are just closed-minded. Overall, I will theoretically trade some of the social progress we made in the later 20th and 21st centuries for born and growing up, living in the America and society my parents and grandparents had growing up. The current context of society gets too hostile sometimes and I'm starting to question whether my own existence of living right now is worthwhile.

And even radical feminism and similar ideas on the left are not as unpopular nor hated as traditional conservative or other ideologies more right-leaning.


I do not adhere to the one dimensional political spectrum, however, while now legal at the federal, and thus state level, for the better part of my life, conservatives have spent a significant amount of resources trying to prevent gay couples from marrying and I've never understood that how a political ideology that prizes personal rights and small government could justify intruding upon the personal rights of others so thoroughly.

So if conservatives are frustrated that they are no longer able to intrude upon the personal lives of gay people in matters that shouldn't even involve them, then you are right, I don't care about that frustration, because it isn't their business.

As far as abortion goes, I do understand that some conservatives see a fetus as a child and believe they are protecting the child, thus the reason for the intrusion on women. But the I don't understand why they don't believe that born children are entitled to similar protections.

I see people in economically depressed areas frustrated by the lack of jobs....as anyone in an economically depressed area would be, and many of these individuals are conservative, but most of the jobs they want back were outsourced to China in the 80s and 90s, not as a result of liberal policies, but as a result of the fact that they could pay workers in China a dollar per day (today though the average Foxconn worker makes about $2.50 per hour...what an American made in the late 1970s), ship the product to the US, and save enough money to sell it at the discount Americans wanted, and still make a profit. This loss of jobs was compounded by the American patronage of Walmart. I do understand how exciting it can be to get a big box retailer if you live in small town middle of nowhere USA, and that if you are struggling financially, it makes more sense to you to pay $4.99 at Walmart for something that would cost $7.99 at the local mom and pop shop, but the fact remains that Americans sold themselves out and a lot of those Americans were conservative.

There was a time when the republican party used to be a respectable party. It was populated by people who believed in small government, personal liberties (that changed when the dixicrats defected to the republican party after the democrats sided with minorities during the civil rights movement), and were first, and foremost, fiscal conservatives and those types of conservatives are no longer representative of the republican party or conservatives in general.



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17 Jan 2018, 10:40 pm

Hollywood_Guy wrote:
Why don't people seem to care about the frustrations the right or conservatives have about society? Or, why is it unpopular in today's society? I feel frankly very scared about where our society is heading with the modern trend leftward, and have a sense of doom about it even if everyone tells me things aren't as crazy. Even with all his controversies and outlandishness, forcing our current president out of office will not always bode well for society, especially in the more long-term. I get the emotionally sick feeling from it a lot. Our decline is only going to get worse, people don't understand or are just closed-minded. Overall, I will theoretically trade some of the social progress we made in the later 20th and 21st centuries for born and growing up, living in the America and society my parents and grandparents had growing up. The current context of society gets too hostile sometimes and I'm starting to question whether my own existence of living right now is worthwhile.


This entire paragraph is a whole lot of nothing. You state that you miss the old America ... but you never state why. Stop wasting my time.

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And even radical feminism and similar ideas on the left are not as unpopular nor hated as traditional conservative or other ideologies more right-leaning.


How much political power do radical feminists have anyway?

I know that crony capitalists and war hawks have a lot of power. Radfems tend to be loud, but they aren't that powerful. Most people just ignore them.


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17 Jan 2018, 11:15 pm

rvacountrysinger wrote:
I believe it largely has to do with the indoctrination that has been going on for the last few decades, particularly in the public school system and beyond. Colleges and Universities used to be, by and large , conservative. In the past 40 years they have been uber left leaning, save some of the more privately funded institutions.


Educational institutions have always been progressive.

This is mainly because progressive principles are derived from facts.

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Our country is becoming accepting of many things except being Conservative or Christian. Liberals whine about how Christians are a majority in America, but that doesn't change the underlying elitism pushed by globalists.


What?

Quote:
Just an example of a recent incident that shows liberal media and their logic, flyers were put up saying "it's okay to be white". Just a simple statement. And the media went into a frenzy calling it "white supremacy" and "hate speech".


Look at the big picture. How many Americans are seriously punished for being white?

The "It's okay to be white." incident was a whole lot of nothing. Those posters were put up to provoke left-wing extremists. They were taken down to avoid causing a fuss.

Quote:
It's almost as if the left, in particular have become mindless robots. They repeat garbage they are told over and over. Such as climate change, "white privilege" , diversity is strength, etc. And if anyone seems to differ on these views, they are labeled as the wolf at the door. They can't help it. If you repeat a lie often enough, people start to believe it as truth.


Yeah. Some leftists nowadays don't know where leftist principles come from.

Of course, leftist intellectuals (the ones that you meet in universities) can usually explain their beliefs.

Quote:
No one today is looking for truth. Liberals believe truth is "relative". They don't have objective truths.


Not all leftists are like this. Don't put rationalists and postmodernists on the same level.

By the way, when conservatives say "Everyone has a political bias, I just admit it!" this is essentially a right-wing version of surreal, post-modern hippie s**t.

Quote:
Liberals in years past used to be reasonable and you could talk to them. Now they will shout in your face and call you "racist" before you can even finish a sentence. It's becoming an example of how mind programming works.


Do you even seek out sane leftists? It seems to me that you deliberately seek out angry moonbats in order to reinforce your prejudices.


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17 Jan 2018, 11:18 pm

ValhallaX wrote:
They refuse to accept facts, such as the Earth being millions of years old which can be proven with science.


This one isn't in my little red book of conservatism.

rvacountrysinger wrote:
Just an example of a recent incident that shows liberal media and their logic, flyers were put up saying "it's okay to be white". Just a simple statement. And the media went into a frenzy calling it "white supremacy" and "hate speech".


Yeah that one was pretty funny.


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18 Jan 2018, 4:49 pm

"Educational institutions have always been progressive."

No, they really haven't! Colleges and Universities were very conservative. Almost always.
There have been left leaning colleges in the past, but they were hardly "progressive". This purge of conservatism from higher learning didn't start until the late 1960's. Today, most college graduates can barely read or write. Useless majors such as "art history" . They don't have any skills for the real working world. I guess that's part of the "Progressive" learning system.



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18 Jan 2018, 8:04 pm

rvacountrysinger wrote:
"Educational institutions have always been progressive."

No, they really haven't! Colleges and Universities were very conservative. Almost always.
There have been left leaning colleges in the past, but they were hardly "progressive". This purge of conservatism from higher learning didn't start until the late 1960's. Today, most college graduates can barely read or write. Useless majors such as "art history" . They don't have any skills for the real working world. I guess that's part of the "Progressive" learning system.

You have got to be kidding me! You say most college grads can barely read or write? That's a pretty extreme exageration. Also not everyone has the same likes and wants. Just because you think art history is useless doesn't mean it's not valuable to others. I personally don't understand art, and can't comprehend why people would pay millions of dollars for old ugly paintings, but that's my opinion. Other people value it and I respect their chocies as long as they're not being oppresive to others. I'm heavy on the science side, but life is not about making money. Life is about following your passions.



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18 Jan 2018, 8:22 pm

rvacountrysinger wrote:
"Educational institutions have always been progressive."

No, they really haven't! Colleges and Universities were very conservative. Almost always.
There have been left leaning colleges in the past, but they were hardly "progressive". This purge of conservatism from higher learning didn't start until the late 1960's. Today, most college graduates can barely read or write. Useless majors such as "art history" . They don't have any skills for the real working world. I guess that's part of the "Progressive" learning system.


What the Hell are you talking about?

Some people want to be scientists. How can you be a good scientist without a degree?

There was never a "purge" of conservatives from universities. There are plenty of conservatives in universities ... but most of them are in STEM. When you take history in university, you learn that conservatism is grounded in lies and irrationality.

By the way, University people like John Stuart Mill were promoting progressive principles back in the 19th century.


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19 Jan 2018, 10:23 am

I realise the title might cause people to jump into sweeping comments on groups, but a reminder to stay away from talk like "conservatives are heartless" or "liberals are ruining this country" as these sorts of remarks poison the discourse.



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19 Jan 2018, 10:35 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Some people want to be scientists. How can you be a good scientist without a degree?


Science predates degrees.



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19 Jan 2018, 10:40 am

Mikah wrote:
ValhallaX wrote:
They refuse to accept facts, such as the Earth being millions of years old which can be proven with science.


This one isn't in my little red book of conservatism.


That's the only part you took issue with?

The character described in ValhallaX's rant might represent a percent of a percent of conservatives at best.

I'm more concerned with the "liberal ideologies" part. I believe he meant to say "Liberal ideologies", but possibly isn't aware of the distinction, or why I make it.



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19 Jan 2018, 11:13 am

ValhallaX wrote:
Lastly, take any conservative region. Look at their standard of living. Generally conservative areas are poorer, less developed, less educated, and more corrupt.

I have a few problems with this.

First, while it acknowledges that this is a trend rather than a hard and fast rule, it overlooks areas such as Switzerland, Japan, SE England, Germany, Singapore, and even Austria. South East England is one of the richest parts of the world but in the 2017 General Election 72 out of 84 MPs were from the Conservative Party (despite much of the region being strongly pro-EU). If we go back to 2010 when the Lib Dems were still competitive then the number actually rises to 74. Now I've a hunch that the average Conservative voter is probably less conservative than the average Republican but the point stands. Switzerland had a ban on minarets but is one of the richest countries in the world per capita.

Secondly, it probably confuses cause and effect. Yes, many popular conservative policies have detrimental effects upon the economy, but for the most part I think it would be fairer to say that people who live in economically deprived areas are more likely to be socially conservative, while people who live in more prosperous areas are more tolerant and liberal.



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19 Jan 2018, 11:23 am

I think the biggest problem right now is the handling of ideas - ie. mobbing, doxing, group identity beating back facts with threats, etc.. I've mentioned to people on Facebook occasionally, here I'm sure on many occasions, that the really salient divide right now is no longer left-right but between people who on one hand want principled debate, even principled disagreement, want know exactly what their opponent believes and why, and they're people who want to work toward solutions and walk away from debates smarter - on one hand - and on the other you have people who don't want to hold themselves to those standards, who want to brandish disconnected fragments of fact as cudgels, and they play the game of convoluting conversation, cleverly blending categories hoping no one can tell what they did, and trying to weaponize misunderstanding (or feigned misunderstanding).

That first way of doing things has been historically much rarer, and the later much more common, but I think our society's now going through a state of maturation where the later policy is really hitting obsolescence and it's going to have to get to where it's no longer generally tolerated or seen as such a pervasive problem that no one can do anything about it. I think the quantity of information on Youtube and other similar places has a lot to do with closing the gap between information, even wisdom, and the people who want it.

On the other hand we're in a strange time of relative peace where its tougher to blame problems on external forces and - in that silence - people are going a bit crazy. It's kind of like western culture is exorcising a lot of subconscious demons and the skeptic community has been the self-collected group whose come ready with collar, cross, and holy water for the occasion.

One thing that I think will be forever changed - we can't go forward with the really dumbed down outlooks we've historically had on human and cultural identity, motivation, and dynamics. We're too powerful, we'll have AI soon, we'll be able to land drones in almost anyone's lap we'd choose - our culture will perish if it doesn't get its integrity and I think that getting of integrity is the prominent emergency right now that you're seeing. If integrity doesn't become a staple in far more people's lives we'll never survive our own up and coming creations.


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