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naturalplastic
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22 Feb 2018, 8:10 am

TwinRuler wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Something that you should "ponder": laying off huffing propane before you post online next time.

Our 20th Century parents and grandparents got their notions that the Germans were "dangerously warlike" not from something Caesar said 2000 years earlier, but from their own first hand experiences: like fighting in one or the other of the two global wars Germany started, or being bombed in the blitz, or living under Nazi occupation, or surviving a concentration camp with your serial number still branded on your skin, or like that. :lol:

Ah, but NaturalPlastic, where exactly did the term "Germany" come from? Caesar's Legions referred to any East of the Rhine and North of the Danube as Germanni. The people, referred to in the English language, as Germans, I am sure you never learned, do not call themselves Germans, but Deutsche, and their country, Deutschland. This was, of course, much like how many U.S. Military personnel, in Korea and Vietnam, referred to their enemies and victims as "Gooks", "Slopes", and "Slant Eyes".

Notice, the very ugly sound of such terms as "Germany", "German", "Germans", and of course, "Germanic". Anti-German sentiment never let up, for all those centuries. Most, of course, rationalize to themselves their hatred of Germans as a response to The Holocaust and every other horrid little thing that the National Socialists did, during The Second World War. This is dishonest. If that were the case, how come they do not similarly hate the Soviet Communists and the Chinese Communists? After all, did not the Soviets and Chinese have their very own Prison Camp Systems? And did not the Soviets and Chinese carry out many the very same types of military atrocities and crimes against Humanity, one usually only associates with the Germans, and their National Socialists? One has to wonder!

Now, those whom the Romans enslaved were termed Slavs, which is exactly where we get the English term "Slave" from. Indeed, Slav is Latin for Slave! I wonder if you ever learnt that, NaturalPlastic? I remember, reading The Conquest of Gaul, by Julius Caesar, one day. I remember, the situation in Gaul, as strange as it may sound, eerily reminded me of Korea and Vietnam.

Julius Caesar even stated that he thought Great Britain was a perfect triangle, another things. Julius Caesar claimed that Elk had no knees, so that they had to lean against trees to support themselves.

Moreover, and more to the point I am making here, Germany is no longer even a Country anymore: merely a Satellite of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. It has been so, for decades now. Sure, in the olden days, when Germany was an Imperial Power, it-- much like France, Britain, and Russia-- did some horrid things. Still, Germany is a defeated Nation, and the German People know it. Would go so far as to state that the Germans are as beholden unto the U.S. Army, as they ever have been to the SS!

:lol: I wonder why many seem not to realize this? It is so very obvious to me.


Once again....please wait until after you post before you start smoking your angel dust. But thanks for telling irrelevant stuff that I already know. And thanks for telling me what I myself said in my post. LOL. I clearly implied all of that crap about how the word German was coined by the Romans to mean "those wild folks on the far side of the rhine that we haven't gotten around to conquering yet" (as opposed to the nearer barbarians of Gaul that we already rule and are assimilating to Roman ways and language (ie the folks we now call the "French").

Am not interested in debating who started the First world war. I agree that the first WW was not as clear cut as the second. But the fact is that in 1914 Germany and its ally, Austria, threw the first punches. When my Kansas granddad was gassed in the trenches those trenches were in French soil because he was trying help kick the Germans out of France, because the Germans were the invaders. The French were not invading Germany. So atleast the percepton was that Germany was the aggressor among our grandparents throughout the English speaking world. My Grandad's attitude about Germany was more influenced by that mustard gas than by anything Caesar ever said.

The rest of your post is some kind of arcane axe grinding. Don't know what to make of it.Maybe you can find some fellow lunatic fringer who knows WTF you're on about to discuss it all with. Trump and the US GOP hate Merkel because she wont knuckled down enough to the US. But you hate her because she is a puppet of the US. So ... I dunno. You and the GOP should get your stories straight first before you sound off. Lol!



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22 Feb 2018, 3:30 pm

TwinRuler wrote:
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As far as Germany not being a country anymore - - I think the Germans would strongly disagree with that. They continue to have their own culture, language, history, and government. The fact that Angela Merkel is breaking with President Cheeto says to me that her country hardly lives to be America's "stepin-fetchit."

Next thing you will say, NATO shall soon fall apart!


God forbid, NATO is an invaluable alliance.


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22 Feb 2018, 3:35 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
TwinRuler wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Something that you should "ponder": laying off huffing propane before you post online next time.

Our 20th Century parents and grandparents got their notions that the Germans were "dangerously warlike" not from something Caesar said 2000 years earlier, but from their own first hand experiences: like fighting in one or the other of the two global wars Germany started, or being bombed in the blitz, or living under Nazi occupation, or surviving a concentration camp with your serial number still branded on your skin, or like that. :lol:

Ah, but NaturalPlastic, where exactly did the term "Germany" come from? Caesar's Legions referred to any East of the Rhine and North of the Danube as Germanni. The people, referred to in the English language, as Germans, I am sure you never learned, do not call themselves Germans, but Deutsche, and their country, Deutschland. This was, of course, much like how many U.S. Military personnel, in Korea and Vietnam, referred to their enemies and victims as "Gooks", "Slopes", and "Slant Eyes".

Notice, the very ugly sound of such terms as "Germany", "German", "Germans", and of course, "Germanic". Anti-German sentiment never let up, for all those centuries. Most, of course, rationalize to themselves their hatred of Germans as a response to The Holocaust and every other horrid little thing that the National Socialists did, during The Second World War. This is dishonest. If that were the case, how come they do not similarly hate the Soviet Communists and the Chinese Communists? After all, did not the Soviets and Chinese have their very own Prison Camp Systems? And did not the Soviets and Chinese carry out many the very same types of military atrocities and crimes against Humanity, one usually only associates with the Germans, and their National Socialists? One has to wonder!

Now, those whom the Romans enslaved were termed Slavs, which is exactly where we get the English term "Slave" from. Indeed, Slav is Latin for Slave! I wonder if you ever learnt that, NaturalPlastic? I remember, reading The Conquest of Gaul, by Julius Caesar, one day. I remember, the situation in Gaul, as strange as it may sound, eerily reminded me of Korea and Vietnam.

Julius Caesar even stated that he thought Great Britain was a perfect triangle, another things. Julius Caesar claimed that Elk had no knees, so that they had to lean against trees to support themselves.

Moreover, and more to the point I am making here, Germany is no longer even a Country anymore: merely a Satellite of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. It has been so, for decades now. Sure, in the olden days, when Germany was an Imperial Power, it-- much like France, Britain, and Russia-- did some horrid things. Still, Germany is a defeated Nation, and the German People know it. Would go so far as to state that the Germans are as beholden unto the U.S. Army, as they ever have been to the SS!

:lol: I wonder why many seem not to realize this? It is so very obvious to me.


Once again....please wait until after you post before you start smoking your angel dust. But thanks for telling irrelevant stuff that I already know. And thanks for telling me what I myself said in my post. LOL. I clearly implied all of that crap about how the word German was coined by the Romans to mean "those wild folks on the far side of the rhine that we haven't gotten around to conquering yet" (as opposed to the nearer barbarians of Gaul that we already rule and are assimilating to Roman ways and language (ie the folks we now call the "French").

Am not interested in debating who started the First world war. I agree that the first WW was not as clear cut as the second. But the fact is that in 1914 Germany and its ally, Austria, threw the first punches. When my Kansas granddad was gassed in the trenches those trenches were in French soil because he was trying help kick the Germans out of France, because the Germans were the invaders. The French were not invading Germany. So atleast the percepton was that Germany was the aggressor among our grandparents throughout the English speaking world. My Grandad's attitude about Germany was more influenced by that mustard gas than by anything Caesar ever said.

The rest of your post is some kind of arcane axe grinding. Don't know what to make of it.Maybe you can find some fellow lunatic fringer who knows WTF you're on about to discuss it all with. Trump and the US GOP hate Merkel because she wont knuckled down enough to the US. But you hate her because she is a puppet of the US. So ... I dunno. You and the GOP should get your stories straight first before you sound off. Lol!


In all fairness, though, France's ally, Russia, had invaded Germany early on in the war, but was repulsed.


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smudgedhorizon
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22 Feb 2018, 3:52 pm

I need your opinion. What causesd its decline and fall? So many versions, from 'too much new land, too little infrastructure', 'economic crisis', 'corrupted citizens' to 'lead poisoning' so where do I look for the answer?


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22 Feb 2018, 4:27 pm

smudgedhorizon wrote:
I need your opinion. What causesd its decline and fall? So many versions, from 'too much new land, too little infrastructure', 'economic crisis', 'corrupted citizens' to 'lead poisoning' so where do I look for the answer?


When we talk about the fall of Rome, we actually mean the fall of the Western Roman Empire in western Europe and north Africa. The Eastern Roman Empire, or Byzantium, had continued on to the 15th century, though by that time it had gradually been chiseled away by Islamic expansion.
The Western Roman Empire fell precisely because of the political division between east and west. While the eastern half was richer, highly urbanized, with commerce going back to the late Neolithic, the west remained largely agrarian societies, thus much poorer. When the tax burden was placed more and more on the shoulders of the poor who had little to pay in the west, while military and civil services declined, decline was hastened. More and more, local strongmen became more important in the lives of local people in the provinces when it came to defense and social services, as opposed to the Emperor in far off Rome, setting the stage for the eventual dismemberment of the Western Empire. With the Great Migration of largely Germanic tribes into Roman territory, the Roman Emperors continued the fiction that the areas occupied by the invaders were still under imperial rule by bestowing Roman civil and military titles on those Barbarian leaders, when in fact those territories were lost, gradually chiseling the Empire down. Rather than having an army composed of Roman citizens anymore, the Western Empire became dependant on Barbarians, whether they were mercenaries, or even whole tribes who might serve Rome one day, then be enemies the next. Eventually, Odoacer, a Barbarian mercenary general of mixed Germanic-Hunnish background, deposed the last Emperor in the west, and declared himself King of Italy. When the Byzantine Emperor sent the Ostrogoths under their King, Theodoric, to recover Italy, Theodoric instead made himself King of Goths and Romans after overthrowing and killing Odoacer. By that time, the Western Empire was composed of little more than Italy, Switzerland, Austria, and southern Bavaria in Germany.


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naturalplastic
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22 Feb 2018, 4:45 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
TwinRuler wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Something that you should "ponder": laying off huffing propane before you post online next time.

Our 20th Century parents and grandparents got their notions that the Germans were "dangerously warlike" not from something Caesar said 2000 years earlier, but from their own first hand experiences: like fighting in one or the other of the two global wars Germany started, or being bombed in the blitz, or living under Nazi occupation, or surviving a concentration camp with your serial number still branded on your skin, or like that. :lol:

Ah, but NaturalPlastic, where exactly did the term "Germany" come from? Caesar's Legions referred to any East of the Rhine and North of the Danube as Germanni. The people, referred to in the English language, as Germans, I am sure you never learned, do not call themselves Germans, but Deutsche, and their country, Deutschland. This was, of course, much like how many U.S. Military personnel, in Korea and Vietnam, referred to their enemies and victims as "Gooks", "Slopes", and "Slant Eyes".

Notice, the very ugly sound of such terms as "Germany", "German", "Germans", and of course, "Germanic". Anti-German sentiment never let up, for all those centuries. Most, of course, rationalize to themselves their hatred of Germans as a response to The Holocaust and every other horrid little thing that the National Socialists did, during The Second World War. This is dishonest. If that were the case, how come they do not similarly hate the Soviet Communists and the Chinese Communists? After all, did not the Soviets and Chinese have their very own Prison Camp Systems? And did not the Soviets and Chinese carry out many the very same types of military atrocities and crimes against Humanity, one usually only associates with the Germans, and their National Socialists? One has to wonder!

Now, those whom the Romans enslaved were termed Slavs, which is exactly where we get the English term "Slave" from. Indeed, Slav is Latin for Slave! I wonder if you ever learnt that, NaturalPlastic? I remember, reading The Conquest of Gaul, by Julius Caesar, one day. I remember, the situation in Gaul, as strange as it may sound, eerily reminded me of Korea and Vietnam.

Julius Caesar even stated that he thought Great Britain was a perfect triangle, another things. Julius Caesar claimed that Elk had no knees, so that they had to lean against trees to support themselves.

Moreover, and more to the point I am making here, Germany is no longer even a Country anymore: merely a Satellite of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. It has been so, for decades now. Sure, in the olden days, when Germany was an Imperial Power, it-- much like France, Britain, and Russia-- did some horrid things. Still, Germany is a defeated Nation, and the German People know it. Would go so far as to state that the Germans are as beholden unto the U.S. Army, as they ever have been to the SS!

:lol: I wonder why many seem not to realize this? It is so very obvious to me.


Once again....please wait until after you post before you start smoking your angel dust. But thanks for telling irrelevant stuff that I already know. And thanks for telling me what I myself said in my post. LOL. I clearly implied all of that crap about how the word German was coined by the Romans to mean "those wild folks on the far side of the rhine that we haven't gotten around to conquering yet" (as opposed to the nearer barbarians of Gaul that we already rule and are assimilating to Roman ways and language (ie the folks we now call the "French").

Am not interested in debating who started the First world war. I agree that the first WW was not as clear cut as the second. But the fact is that in 1914 Germany and its ally, Austria, threw the first punches. When my Kansas granddad was gassed in the trenches those trenches were in French soil because he was trying help kick the Germans out of France, because the Germans were the invaders. The French were not invading Germany. So atleast the percepton was that Germany was the aggressor among our grandparents throughout the English speaking world. My Grandad's attitude about Germany was more influenced by that mustard gas than by anything Caesar ever said.

The rest of your post is some kind of arcane axe grinding. Don't know what to make of it.Maybe you can find some fellow lunatic fringer who knows WTF you're on about to discuss it all with. Trump and the US GOP hate Merkel because she wont knuckled down enough to the US. But you hate her because she is a puppet of the US. So ... I dunno. You and the GOP should get your stories straight first before you sound off. Lol!


In all fairness, though, France's ally, Russia, had invaded Germany early on in the war, but was repulsed.


But that was as much in support of France defending itself on the opposite front as it was simple aggression.



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22 Feb 2018, 6:25 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
TwinRuler wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
Something that you should "ponder": laying off huffing propane before you post online next time.

Our 20th Century parents and grandparents got their notions that the Germans were "dangerously warlike" not from something Caesar said 2000 years earlier, but from their own first hand experiences: like fighting in one or the other of the two global wars Germany started, or being bombed in the blitz, or living under Nazi occupation, or surviving a concentration camp with your serial number still branded on your skin, or like that. :lol:

Ah, but NaturalPlastic, where exactly did the term "Germany" come from? Caesar's Legions referred to any East of the Rhine and North of the Danube as Germanni. The people, referred to in the English language, as Germans, I am sure you never learned, do not call themselves Germans, but Deutsche, and their country, Deutschland. This was, of course, much like how many U.S. Military personnel, in Korea and Vietnam, referred to their enemies and victims as "Gooks", "Slopes", and "Slant Eyes".

Notice, the very ugly sound of such terms as "Germany", "German", "Germans", and of course, "Germanic". Anti-German sentiment never let up, for all those centuries. Most, of course, rationalize to themselves their hatred of Germans as a response to The Holocaust and every other horrid little thing that the National Socialists did, during The Second World War. This is dishonest. If that were the case, how come they do not similarly hate the Soviet Communists and the Chinese Communists? After all, did not the Soviets and Chinese have their very own Prison Camp Systems? And did not the Soviets and Chinese carry out many the very same types of military atrocities and crimes against Humanity, one usually only associates with the Germans, and their National Socialists? One has to wonder!

Now, those whom the Romans enslaved were termed Slavs, which is exactly where we get the English term "Slave" from. Indeed, Slav is Latin for Slave! I wonder if you ever learnt that, NaturalPlastic? I remember, reading The Conquest of Gaul, by Julius Caesar, one day. I remember, the situation in Gaul, as strange as it may sound, eerily reminded me of Korea and Vietnam.

Julius Caesar even stated that he thought Great Britain was a perfect triangle, another things. Julius Caesar claimed that Elk had no knees, so that they had to lean against trees to support themselves.

Moreover, and more to the point I am making here, Germany is no longer even a Country anymore: merely a Satellite of THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. It has been so, for decades now. Sure, in the olden days, when Germany was an Imperial Power, it-- much like France, Britain, and Russia-- did some horrid things. Still, Germany is a defeated Nation, and the German People know it. Would go so far as to state that the Germans are as beholden unto the U.S. Army, as they ever have been to the SS!

:lol: I wonder why many seem not to realize this? It is so very obvious to me.


Once again....please wait until after you post before you start smoking your angel dust. But thanks for telling irrelevant stuff that I already know. And thanks for telling me what I myself said in my post. LOL. I clearly implied all of that crap about how the word German was coined by the Romans to mean "those wild folks on the far side of the rhine that we haven't gotten around to conquering yet" (as opposed to the nearer barbarians of Gaul that we already rule and are assimilating to Roman ways and language (ie the folks we now call the "French").

Am not interested in debating who started the First world war. I agree that the first WW was not as clear cut as the second. But the fact is that in 1914 Germany and its ally, Austria, threw the first punches. When my Kansas granddad was gassed in the trenches those trenches were in French soil because he was trying help kick the Germans out of France, because the Germans were the invaders. The French were not invading Germany. So atleast the percepton was that Germany was the aggressor among our grandparents throughout the English speaking world. My Grandad's attitude about Germany was more influenced by that mustard gas than by anything Caesar ever said.

The rest of your post is some kind of arcane axe grinding. Don't know what to make of it.Maybe you can find some fellow lunatic fringer who knows WTF you're on about to discuss it all with. Trump and the US GOP hate Merkel because she wont knuckled down enough to the US. But you hate her because she is a puppet of the US. So ... I dunno. You and the GOP should get your stories straight first before you sound off. Lol!


In all fairness, though, France's ally, Russia, had invaded Germany early on in the war, but was repulsed.


But that was as much in support of France defending itself on the opposite front as it was simple aggression.


While the Germans had struck first, it was also true that the French were the first to mobilize. The Germans arguably just beat them to the punch. Had the Germans not gone with the Schlieffen plan and invaded through Belgium, violating that country's Neutrality Pact with England, English involvement would have been much less likely, and hence making American involvement virtually impossible, making the history of Europe very different.


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23 Feb 2018, 7:11 pm

One thing is certain: no other people on Earth, are as vilified by the U.S. Media as the Germans are!



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23 Feb 2018, 7:17 pm

If only Carthage won the war, I would have probably ruling you all from my supreme throne by now in that other timeline.



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23 Feb 2018, 7:24 pm

I don't feel there is very much vitriol towards Germans these days within a US context.

Nobody talks about "The Hun," or "The Krauts" any more. This is stuff from about 1860 to about 1945.



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23 Feb 2018, 7:27 pm

TwinRuler wrote:
One thing is certain: no other people on Earth, are as vilified by the U.S. Media as the Germans are!


You have a severely distorted worldview if you think that the US media vilifies German people as much as it vilifies Palestinians.

Everyone knows that the Germans have moved on since WW2. People will joke about German Nazis, but a joke is not a statement of fact.


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23 Feb 2018, 7:46 pm

TwinRuler wrote:
Still, anti-Germanism has an ancient lineage, going all the way back to Rome.

While I am not a fan of Nazism and anti-semitism I agree with Kraichgauer and Kraftie that people collectively referred to as Germans have a long and rich history.

Germany has never been a united nation or state, even when Arminius (the first German speaking king who attempted to create united Germany) attempted to form a coalition to defeat the Romans he himself was assassinated by a rival German tribe a few years later. Arminius became the inspiration for Germanic sagas including Sigurd and George (the dragonslayers) and probably inspired the mythical exploits of the Beowulf saga.

It's also important to know that up to 1066 the ancestral speakers of English spoke a dialect of west-German roughly called Anglo-Saxon and the closest modern language to English is infact Frisian, a west German language still spoken on the border of north west Germany and the Netherlands. English is infact a Germanic language and its cultural roots are Germanic

People need to separate Nazism from German culture as the former was a political creation



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23 Feb 2018, 7:47 pm

Anybody who could equate "Aryan" with "German" is plainly nuts.



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23 Feb 2018, 7:49 pm

Aryan is infact a sanskrit word first used by brown skinned people north of the hindu kush, so for that matter is the swastika



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23 Feb 2018, 7:57 pm

cyberdad wrote:
TwinRuler wrote:
Still, anti-Germanism has an ancient lineage, going all the way back to Rome.

While I am not a fan of Nazism and anti-semitism I agree with Kraichgauer and Kraftie that people collectively referred to as Germans have a long and rich history.

Germany has never been a united nation or state, even when Arminius (the first German speaking king who attempted to create united Germany) attempted to form a coalition to defeat the Romans he himself was assassinated by a rival German tribe a few years later. Arminius became the inspiration for Germanic sagas including Sigurd and George (the dragonslayers) and probably inspired the mythical exploits of the Beowulf saga.

It's also important to know that up to 1066 the ancestral speakers of English spoke a dialect of west-German roughly called Anglo-Saxon and the closest modern language to English is infact Frisian, a west German language still spoken on the border of north west Germany and the Netherlands. English is infact a Germanic language and its cultural roots are Germanic

People need to separate Nazism from German culture as the former was a political creation


Thank you for saying so. 8)


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23 Feb 2018, 8:15 pm

Yes. The word "Iran" is related to the word "Aryan" . The true Aryans in the strict sense are the speakers of the Indo-Iranian branch of the Indoeuropean language family - groups that include the Iranians, and most of the ethnic groups in Afghanistan, Pakistan, northern India, and Bangladesh, though not southern India (where they speak the totally unrelated Dravidian languages). Though often lighter skinned than Dravidians they are hardly your stereotyped blonde blue eyed ideal of Nazi racial ideology.

Through some complicated convoluted distortion of science the Nazis concocted a racial myth that involved appropriating the word "Aryan", and applying the word to Nordics, and Germans.

A certain macabre irony just now occurred to me.

The Rom people (the Gypsies) had their origins in northern India around a thousand plus years ago, and still speak a northern Indian Indo-Aryan language. They migrated westward via Iran, and the Byzantine Empire into Middle Ages Europe, and became the group we know today as Gypsies.

The Gypsies, like the Jews, were slated for extermination in the death camps. So therefore the one true group of actual "Aryans" in Europe were among the groups slated for death by the Nazis in the name of "Aryan surpremecy".