Page 8 of 10 [ 143 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next

DarthMetaKnight
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,124
Location: The Infodome

07 Mar 2018, 3:07 pm

Daniel89 wrote:
What makes the west strong?


Resources and big-ass weapons.

Quote:
Law and order guaranteed rights, equality under the law.


What the Hell? What are you even talking about? This literally makes no sense at all.

The Catalonian anarchists during the Spanish Civil War had equality. They had freedom. They were crushed by Francisco Franco. Freedom doesn't automatically make a society strong. It only makes a society free.

Do you think I'm against order and equality? Those are standard leftist principles.

Quote:
If we throw this away Russia and China will have puppet dictators put in place and we will loose the vast majority of our freedoms.


Who wants to throw this away? Me?

Are you seriously implying that the West will be conquered if it adopts social democracy? I see no evidence of this.


_________________
Synthetic carbo-polymers got em through man. They got em through mouse. They got through, and we're gonna get out.
-Roostre

READ THIS -> https://represent.us/


Daniel89
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Oct 2017
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,530
Location: England

07 Mar 2018, 3:08 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
First off the US is not the only western civilisation. Secondly if its so bad why do millions of people choose to move there? If its so bad why do you live there? What country would you prefer to live in?


Many people move to the West in order to escape the problems that America caused.

For example, ISIS often uses weapons that were left in Iraq during the American Invasion of Iraq.

Western governments are often brutal towards their own citizens ... though they save their harshest brutality for foreigners who challenge their power.


All nations treat foreigners worse than their own people. America is the most powerful country is the history of the world power corrupts so yes it does some bad things but do you really think if Iraq/Russia/China had the level of power America had the world would be a better place? Look how they treat their own people now.



DarthMetaKnight
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,124
Location: The Infodome

07 Mar 2018, 3:12 pm

Daniel89 wrote:
RainbowUnion wrote:

IC and you called me racist. ROFLMAO. Whats your opinion of Trump and his Mexican wall I wonder?


A nation has a right to defend its borders that's why Mexico has a wall on its southern border.


For the record, I don't think that Mexico should have that wall either.


_________________
Synthetic carbo-polymers got em through man. They got em through mouse. They got through, and we're gonna get out.
-Roostre

READ THIS -> https://represent.us/


Daniel89
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Oct 2017
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,530
Location: England

07 Mar 2018, 3:16 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
What makes the west strong?


Resources and big-ass weapons.

Quote:
Law and order guaranteed rights, equality under the law.


What the Hell? What are you even talking about? This literally makes no sense at all.

The Catalonian anarchists during the Spanish Civil War had equality. They had freedom. They were crushed by Francisco Franco. Freedom doesn't automatically make a society strong. It only makes a society free.

Do you think I'm against order and equality? Those are standard leftist principles.

Quote:
If we throw this away Russia and China will have puppet dictators put in place and we will loose the vast majority of our freedoms.


Who wants to throw this away? Me?

Are you seriously implying that the West will be conquered if it adopts social democracy? I see no evidence of this.


Leftists are not in favour of equality under the law they are in favour of using state violence to achieve their idea of equality.

Switzerland does not possess any natural resources or Nuclear weapons yet Pakistan does and Switzerland is stronger.

I don't really know about the Catalonia thing my point isn't that a small free nation can defeat a large unfree one my point is a country will be stronger the more free its people are as they will innovate more and economics is what makes countries strong in today's world.



DarthMetaKnight
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,124
Location: The Infodome

07 Mar 2018, 3:20 pm

Daniel89 wrote:
We cannot know about Prehistoric history because its pre history.


Slavery doesn't even make sense in a prehistoric society. How does that even make sense? The technology needed to confine a slave doesn't even exist yet.

Addionally, no modern hunter-gatherer society has slaves. Most modern-day hunter-gatherers are freedom-loving people who greatly respect liberty.

Quote:
Ending slavery may have been a global effort to an extant but it was driven by the west and if not for the west would still probably exist openly.


Don't give the West so much credit.

Human beings naturally desire freedom. That would have ended slavery without the help of the West.

During the Slave Era, there were frequent slave uprisings and this contributed to abolitionism. These slave uprisings didn't come from "Western values". They just came from a very human desire to be free.


_________________
Synthetic carbo-polymers got em through man. They got em through mouse. They got through, and we're gonna get out.
-Roostre

READ THIS -> https://represent.us/


Daniel89
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Oct 2017
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,530
Location: England

07 Mar 2018, 3:24 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
We cannot know about Prehistoric history because its pre history.


Slavery doesn't even make sense in a prehistoric society. How does that even make sense? The technology needed to confine a slave doesn't even exist yet.

Addionally, no modern hunter-gatherer society has slaves. Most modern-day hunter-gatherers are freedom-loving people who greatly respect liberty.

Quote:
Ending slavery may have been a global effort to an extant but it was driven by the west and if not for the west would still probably exist openly.


Don't give the West so much credit.

Human beings naturally desire freedom. That would have ended slavery without the help of the West.

During the Slave Era, there were frequent slave uprisings and this contributed to abolitionism. These slave uprisings didn't come from "Western values". They just came from a very human desire to be free.


Have you seen the slavery timeline and how late nations stopped openly enslaving people? The Emir of Qatar brought slaves to the Queens coronation.



DarthMetaKnight
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,124
Location: The Infodome

07 Mar 2018, 3:24 pm

Daniel89 wrote:
I'd like to live in some magic utopia too but its not going to happen people are different and there will always be conflict.


People have more similarities than you might think. Culture molds us to an extent, but, deep down, we all have human nature.

Another Thing: During prehistory, human vs. nature conflicts were more common that human vs. human conflicts.

Most modern-day hunter-gatherer societies don't fight with other tribes that often, though they often have to deal with civilized societies that are trying to wipe them out.


_________________
Synthetic carbo-polymers got em through man. They got em through mouse. They got through, and we're gonna get out.
-Roostre

READ THIS -> https://represent.us/


DarthMetaKnight
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,124
Location: The Infodome

07 Mar 2018, 3:27 pm

Daniel89 wrote:
All nations treat foreigners worse than their own people. America is the most powerful country is the history of the world power corrupts so yes it does some bad things but do you really think if Iraq/Russia/China had the level of power America had the world would be a better place?


No.

A true leftist opposes any form of authority which cannot justify its existence.


_________________
Synthetic carbo-polymers got em through man. They got em through mouse. They got through, and we're gonna get out.
-Roostre

READ THIS -> https://represent.us/


aghogday
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 25 Nov 2010
Age: 58
Gender: Male
Posts: 8,375

07 Mar 2018, 3:29 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxEPV4kolz0

"Humans Need not Apply" and how that relates to
whether or not "Basic Income Should Be a Basic Right":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_B._Calhoun

There are other considerations to be taken into account, such as John B Calhoun's
Experiment in Creating a "Utopian Rat Society" in the 60's, with all one can eat in a limited
space lacking one important part of any Social Animal Group; namely, Clearly Defined Social
Roles and the Natural Struggles for Intermittent Reinforcement that Bring a Feel and Sense still
of Serotonin Status; lest, in the experiment about Rats and Albeit no, not Human Social Animals;
but never the less, we share a Common Rodent Ancestor as Science Suggests from around 75 Million
years ago, shortly after an Asteroid made the Gulf of Mexico and incinerated Dinosaurs to make way for
our Ancestor Rodents and eventually little old me and you too now in this Wonderful New World of A Brand new
Experiment now where we are both the Scientist and the Guinea Pig of what will come next. Anyway, as far as the
experiment, limited to rats, of course, what happened next is; the Males no longer Defended their Territory from
other Males and began incessantly a repetitive behavior of grooming themselves from/for the escape of basically
no longer having clearly defined social roles to Struggle against other Male Rats for Mates and the such
as that; and subsistence for the rival of the rest of the Environment for yes, just that. Meanwhile, the
Females started ignoring the Males and started somewhat of a 'mean girls' aggressive pair bonding
with each other as eventually what happened is, the entire Rat Tribe went extinct
as neither male or female were any longer interested in the opposite
rat sex. True, one can see indications of this reality in Japan
these days where true as studies show, Younger folks are no
longer nearly as interested in doing the Biblical Definition
and Bill Clinton Definition of Sex to make new
Little Humans to roam around the World as it stands
and sort of falls today to Opiate addictions that replace the
warm and fuzzy fills of what used to be Clearly Defined Social
Roles that actually worked with a product shared to be produced that
all could touch and feel and appreciate more together as a Dance and Song of Life
that really hummed along from day to day existence in basic struggle to attain what 'normally'
is an only intermittent gratification of life where instant gratification can reduce life to almost no flavor at all.

Scenario two; we are not rats, we as humans and have what is called imagination and creativity where Human beings
of the more self-actualized 'types' can/will create their own cultures and social roles that work really well for them per
what one might name a Real Kingdom of Heaven on Earth both within and outside too to share and give to
others free, too. True that requires no clearly defined roles that others have already set forth but true too
as personality as inherited may also rule, innately; not all folks are open minded and creative enough
to do this to make life successful and beautiful as wisdom can and will come to be standing tall
and courageous in fearless way as any Wizard of Oz and Dorothy and Scare Crow And Tin
Man and yes, Fearless Lion, get it all together for a Joy of Life that works; now, just now.

Scenario three; 'some folks' will adapt and
survive and 'some folks' will not. The Byproducts
of Culture are already a Cancer upon the Earth killing many
other species still going further extinct where all life loses as all
life in balance of ecosystem depends on all as balance of the living
part of the Earth to continue in surviving and yes, even animal homeostasis
of existence. So, after perusing three potential scenarios here; now, what comes next.

Jesus F in Christ that's up to Politics and that's also broke; more than obviously in the United
States in a place that it no longer works; For A Square one root problem is this and it has always been this;
Classically Evolved Humans as are us are not evolved to connect in Peace and Harmony to more than around 150 to
200 sets of Human eyes and ears in a Dance and Song of Life, with Naturally derived Libido for moving connecting
co-creating life that doesn't end up too much in fist-cuffs of differences unless many laws come to strong arm what
might otherwise happen in anarchy, if too many humans get together in close proximity of Huge Populations of
Cities and the such as that. Politics are the rules that make the whole potential shooting match work; other wise
Alternatively, Guns or Swords and Fisticuff Wars. When Politics Break, so do Huge Human Societies
as we really have a big one of those in the United States that is no longer working, well now. And
true; Religions keep people on the same pages to vote together out of gridlock in Traditions
of Hairless Apes at least voting together in unison to get something done for
continued survival, even if it isn't that much fun. That's losing steam too;
So, basically, it seems not unlike the Matrix Series of Movies, since
this overall Peace might not last much longer; party hard and
enjoy life and don't leave boot camp too much to make
it all feel really good like intermittent Gratification
still; even though one might not have the discipline of that
and very few in fact do to get a balance of bliss that really lasts a long
haul of life now. It's true; money sucks. Money really sucks; Small Tribes
in the smallest societies as the Science of Sociology still shows works the best
when folks are producing and creating subsistence resources to share and give directly away
far from a symbol like money to do the same. Fact is, though, we are not small; we are extra extra
large, now. Other fact is, as i just enjoyed only a view of a recent Robo-Bar at a Casino I visit to Dance
in the surrounded Beaches as the wife uses the Free Play, while i don't drink or gamble but never the less
for those who do; even the F iN BarTender Jobs are going away; Here's A thing, too, when 'Ted Danson' cannot
find a Job in a 'Cheers Bar' there are no longer even any Free Psychologists for folks who are going the Opiate
route to talk to at any Piano Bar either; like they might do with 'A Billy Joel too'; where everyone just Dances
And Sings a Dance and Song of Loneliness; with no Dance and Song left. Meanwhile, if we don't come up
with some kind of
solution,
eventually
lots of folks
who are Guinea Pigs
and Scientists too and even
the 'Rich Folks' controlling the Buttons
of the Robot Bartenders will all be, F in Screwed.
Meanwhile, Nature 'smiles' as an all natural 'raid' takes care of the rest.
Nature is the Big Boss; exclude her/him from the Soup of Life Human and 'Godzilla' will likely, rule, again.
Maybe not a Dinosaur but likely someone else but Humans as things fall apart out of Balance. True,
we
need
a whole
lot more than
Money to solve
this fresh hell now.
Meanwhile. i'm partying like it's 1999 all over
again; and this time it's for real. This Peace will
last as long as it will. I'll Dance and Sing as long as it does.

As far as i'm concerned, these are the best of times ever for i adapt and thrive now; just now.
Hmm; true though, i'm not the only one to count on to insure the continued success of that.

Yep; being a Social Animal is never an Island, overall, as we depend on each other to survive.

Bottom Lines, most oF all, we need a Basic income of Holy and Sacred Full of Meaning and Purpose of Life;
For when one has that; generally speaking, Human Cultures thrive almost no matter what Fresh Hell comes next.
From: True though, again; it takes a whole lot more than 'one person like that' to Bring it all To: A Fruition that works.


_________________
KATiE MiA FredericK!iI

Gravatar is one of the coolest things ever!! !

http://en.gravatar.com/katiemiafrederick


Daniel89
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Oct 2017
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,530
Location: England

07 Mar 2018, 3:30 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
I'd like to live in some magic utopia too but its not going to happen people are different and there will always be conflict.


People have more similarities than you might think. Culture molds us to an extent, but, deep down, we all have human nature.

Another Thing: During prehistory, human vs. nature conflicts were more common that human vs. human conflicts.

Most modern-day hunter-gatherer societies don't fight with other tribes that often, though they often have to deal with civilized societies that are trying to wipe them out.


I don't see the point of this obsession with hunter gatherer societies its not like 7.5 billion people could return to this life.

Human nature is both good and bad and yes culture does mould us but we shouldn't pretend that all cultures are equal. Our culture is what makes our societies superior to others.



Daniel89
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Oct 2017
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,530
Location: England

07 Mar 2018, 3:32 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
All nations treat foreigners worse than their own people. America is the most powerful country is the history of the world power corrupts so yes it does some bad things but do you really think if Iraq/Russia/China had the level of power America had the world would be a better place?


No.

A true leftist opposes any form of authority which cannot justify its existence.


This is a no true Scotsman fallacy, the modern left wants special treatment for virtually every group who are not straight white men.



DarthMetaKnight
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,124
Location: The Infodome

07 Mar 2018, 3:35 pm

Daniel89 wrote:
Switzerland does not possess any natural resources or Nuclear weapons yet Pakistan does and Switzerland is stronger.


This is very difficult to prove.

It's entirely possible that Pakistan is stronger. This does not make Pakistan a better country because the Pakistani upper class hoards all the resources.

Quote:
I don't really know about the Catalonia thing my point isn't that a small free nation can defeat a large unfree one my point is a country will be stronger the more free its people are as they will innovate more and economics is what makes countries strong in today's world.


I see no evidence of this. Many of the empires of the past were dictatorships.

Innovation exists in all societies. Which country got the first man into space?

Economics? Military force is still the main thing that makes a country strong, even in today's world.


_________________
Synthetic carbo-polymers got em through man. They got em through mouse. They got through, and we're gonna get out.
-Roostre

READ THIS -> https://represent.us/


Daniel89
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Oct 2017
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,530
Location: England

07 Mar 2018, 3:38 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Daniel89 wrote:
Switzerland does not possess any natural resources or Nuclear weapons yet Pakistan does and Switzerland is stronger.


This is very difficult to prove.

It's entirely possible that Pakistan is stronger. This does not make Pakistan a better country because the Pakistani upper class hoards all the resources.

Quote:
I don't really know about the Catalonia thing my point isn't that a small free nation can defeat a large unfree one my point is a country will be stronger the more free its people are as they will innovate more and economics is what makes countries strong in today's world.


I see no evidence of this. Many of the empires of the past were dictatorships.

Innovation exists in all societies. Which country got the first man into space?

Economics? Military force is still the main thing that makes a country strong, even in today's world.


Yes but it costs money to build a strong military and societies that are more free are richer.



DarthMetaKnight
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,124
Location: The Infodome

07 Mar 2018, 3:52 pm

Daniel89 wrote:
I don't see the point of this obsession with hunter gatherer societies its not like 7.5 billion people could return to this life.


Oh come on! Now you're just being intentionally obtuse.

You began making statements regarding internal human nature. How are we supposed to discuss human nature without drawing upon prehistory?

I know that we can't go back. I'm not an idiot.

Quote:
Human nature is both good and bad and yes culture does mould us but we shouldn't pretend that all cultures are equal.


We always need to remember that culture, law, and economics are distinct, though they sometimes influence one another.

For example, consider crucifixion, which is still practiced in Saudi Arabia as a form of capital punishment. The crucifixion in Saudi Arabia is carried out by the Saudi government, not the average citizens.

We usually use the word "culture" to describe what the middle and lower classes do habitually. Thus, culture and law are distinct. Not all laws are products of culture. If a country is not democratic, the laws can often conflict with the culture.

Quote:
Our culture is what makes our societies superior to others.


Nope. Democracy is makes the West great. Democracy is possible because the masses can use technology to educate themselves. Democracy isn't simply a product of Western culture because all people naturally desire it.


_________________
Synthetic carbo-polymers got em through man. They got em through mouse. They got through, and we're gonna get out.
-Roostre

READ THIS -> https://represent.us/


DarthMetaKnight
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,124
Location: The Infodome

07 Mar 2018, 3:58 pm

Daniel89 wrote:
This is a no true Scotsman fallacy,


I'm drawing upon the teachings of the people who built the left, such as Mikhail Bakunin, Benjamin Tucker and Lysander Spooner. They weren't hypocritical. They wanted equality for all human beings.

Quote:
the modern left wants special treatment for virtually every group who are not straight white men.


I will agree that the modern left has gone astray thanks to propaganda coming out of the corporate "liberals" like the Democratic Party, but the left wasn't always like this.


_________________
Synthetic carbo-polymers got em through man. They got em through mouse. They got through, and we're gonna get out.
-Roostre

READ THIS -> https://represent.us/