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aghogday
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07 Sep 2018, 10:15 am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeMAxFWnaAc

Major Factors underlying the Increase in Rampage Killings Among Young Males Studied Deeper in the Link Below.

Of Course More Males are doing the Dirty Deed as Males overall are responsible for Close to 90 Percent of all Violent
Crime but Rampage Killings are a Specific and Still Overall Statistically Rare Crime; although Definitely Increasing.

Before 'the days' of the End of Last Century with the Columbine Killings ending that Century, Young Males
Committing these Mass Shootings were in the small, overall, minority of Mass Shootings then.

And in the 50's, Mass Shootings were almost non-existent when Social Roles were Clearly Defined in Terms of
Communal Meaning and Purpose in Life that was even felt and sensed as Holy and Sacred in the Work Place too.

Things have changed and THIS IS A First World Problem too.

Oh yeah; and by Statistics as far as those 'Trump Feared Latinos' they are the Ethnic Demographic Least Likely to commit a Mass Shooting.

It's also worth noting Latinos more often as a Minority Stick together with a Feel and Sense of Communal Meaning and
Purpose with yes High Percentages of Latinos Sticking Together with a Religion with a Moral Code of something at least.

Sure, if you don't want anymore Violence Kill all the Males and see what Happens next at my best attempt her for
Sarcasm as it isn't like no one has Studied this Topic in much Greater Detail than simply Black and White for
you can/will Hate the Devil all you like but until you remove the Hell there is no use in reforming the Devil now.

True, it's easier to have Sympathy for the Devil too once you've done Devil and Lived in Hell too.

This though is all about Rational Thinking Divorced as much as possible from Personal Feelings which
is literally impossible to do unless one is a Frigging Robot; done tHere; done tHat too.

And yes; still got 'the Devil' and 'the Robot' in my Back Pocket as 'Shadows' and Reason' plays a role in life too
as long as both Are tamed with Empathy, Sympathy, Compassion; and Yes, enough Cognitive Empathy to understand
that we walk in Vastly Different Shoes depending on Nature and Nature; and in this Case the Evidence at Hand points
to Nurture in this Very Specific Case of Young Men Historically committing many more Mass shootings now that Kill Folks Dead.

And it's true I have Empathy, Sympathy, Compassion, and Cognitive Empathy for Literal and Black and White Thinking as
there were Decades where I had practically no ability to use my unused and withering away Human Potential to both See
Do Art Life More with Color than the Black and White Literal think of Systemizing Mind.

My Psychiatrist and Psychotherapist Literally Agree that i remedied all the Less Potential used of my Autism Spectrum Condition with a Dedicated effort toward Art in Both Song and Dance Free Style without a Book at all. And yes, I was diagnosed by Four Professionals and My Sister was too; in case anyone still thinks just 'because' i've expressed Philosophy Here both Artistically and Deeper than Colors of Black and White, I am Frigging Insane as I put up with that Bullstuff here when i was curing myself of the Deficits in Human Potential I lived with in this Autism Spectrum Condition most of my Life.

Some now one has to Self-Advocate and just get the job done no matter how much Ignorance in the Room Refuses to
Move out of the Box and Make a Change that works personally and uniquely tailored for and by them.

It's a matter of moving out of the Box and Science Shows Moving Meditation really works for the Autism Spectrum now
and who knows and feel and senses what comes next; perhaps Poetry and a Real Love Life for so-called Incels too.

And I really Mean, Feel and Sense a Love Life; not just sticking a Body part into a Hole; but yes that too as that
is Part of Human Shadow Nature too; it is what it; is we are Furry and 'Fury' Animals Just like my Cat too with a
'Soul' too like my Cat too if we use it first and continue to use it instead of losing it in all the ways that Metaphorically and Literally comes and goes. True; if a Feral Cat Cat Tamed with Love from 2 Years of the Backwoods of my Home can and will enjoy a Lap of Oxytocin Comfort; Specifically my Wife most of the Day after being a Ruthless Killer of Smaller Prey and a Ruthless Predator of Mating too; Humans should be able to change too. But not until they Seek and Find the Root
Causes of 'the disorder' (a lack of Meaning and Purpose with nothing Holy and Sacred Felt in Life and Comfy Love) and Remedy A 'Soul' Back to Life.

And to Be Clear, these Similar Factors relate to other Countries of Terrorism too; Sure, there will always be Incels when
Men lose their way without Meaning and Purpose in Life that is felt and sensed as Holy and Sacred in Clearly Defined
Social Roles they can and will Depend on through the Life Span now.


'Houston', we have a Real Problem as increasingly we are becoming more the Tools we Co-Create than the Humans who
Co-create and Hug and Hold Hands for F in Real. And the Overall Stakes for the Human Race are enormous in the Coming
Decades and Centuries if we make it that far too. For these young Men are Truly the Canaries in the First World Coal
Mine now; To ignore the Message they are sending is to our Peril not to truly Figure out and Take action as while
these crimes are still relatively rare; all it takes is a Dirty Bomb to truly make the Stuff hit the Fan in all the
Ways 'Dirty Bombs' come and go and all the places they come from that are anywhere with a Lack of Love
in all the ways that truly comes for Life Now.

viewtopic.php?t=218916


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aghogday
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07 Sep 2018, 10:25 am

Oh yeah; Hint; the 'Dirty Bomb' is Orange; yes, already come to be REAL NOW
as 'The Folks' ignored 'the Messengers'
to our obvious Peril now for those who have any Robot at all LEFT of Reason too.


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Mythos
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07 Sep 2018, 12:54 pm

I'm starting a new post because those quotes were getting ridiculously long and it's painful to try to snip it all down on my phone.

Basically, any gender is capable of committing crimes, and any gender is capable of contributing to these crimes.

But if we were, for a minute, to speak of the nature of men as being the majority of perpetrators, you could lay it down to testosterone most likely. Other than that, I don't really know.

Though I disagree that the gender is important in any case. I fail to see how it addresses the problem or, more importantly, how it deals with those outliers that happen to be the opposite gender even if the number is only 0.01%.

This is what contributes to the dangerous narrative that, for example, men don't suffer sexual abuse. I suppose it's the classic slippery slope; let's tag mass murder with a gender, let's tag homocide with a gender, let's tag sexual abusers with a gender, then where does it end? It certainly doesn't help. It's identity politics for the sake of it.



Mythos
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07 Sep 2018, 1:09 pm

aghogday wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeMAxFWnaAc

Major Factors underlying the Increase in Rampage Killings Among Young Males Studied Deeper in the Link Below.

Of Course More Males are doing the Dirty Deed as Males overall are responsible for Close to 90 Percent of all Violent
Crime but Rampage Killings are a Specific and Still Overall Statistically Rare Crime; although Definitely Increasing.

Before 'the days' of the End of Last Century with the Columbine Killings ending that Century, Young Males
Committing these Mass Shootings were in the small, overall, minority of Mass Shootings then.

And in the 50's, Mass Shootings were almost non-existent when Social Roles were Clearly Defined in Terms of
Communal Meaning and Purpose in Life that was even felt and sensed as Holy and Sacred in the Work Place too.

Things have changed and THIS IS A First World Problem too.

Oh yeah; and by Statistics as far as those 'Trump Feared Latinos' they are the Ethnic Demographic Least Likely to commit a Mass Shooting.

It's also worth noting Latinos more often as a Minority Stick together with a Feel and Sense of Communal Meaning and
Purpose with yes High Percentages of Latinos Sticking Together with a Religion with a Moral Code of something at least.

Sure, if you don't want anymore Violence Kill all the Males and see what Happens next at my best attempt her for
Sarcasm as it isn't like no one has Studied this Topic in much Greater Detail than simply Black and White for
you can/will Hate the Devil all you like but until you remove the Hell there is no use in reforming the Devil now.

True, it's easier to have Sympathy for the Devil too once you've done Devil and Lived in Hell too.

This though is all about Rational Thinking Divorced as much as possible from Personal Feelings which
is literally impossible to do unless one is a Frigging Robot; done tHere; done tHat too.

And yes; still got 'the Devil' and 'the Robot' in my Back Pocket as 'Shadows' and Reason' plays a role in life too
as long as both Are tamed with Empathy, Sympathy, Compassion; and Yes, enough Cognitive Empathy to understand
that we walk in Vastly Different Shoes depending on Nature and Nature; and in this Case the Evidence at Hand points
to Nurture in this Very Specific Case of Young Men Historically committing many more Mass shootings now that Kill Folks Dead.

And it's true I have Empathy, Sympathy, Compassion, and Cognitive Empathy for Literal and Black and White Thinking as
there were Decades where I had practically no ability to use my unused and withering away Human Potential to both See
Do Art Life More with Color than the Black and White Literal think of Systemizing Mind.

My Psychiatrist and Psychotherapist Literally Agree that i remedied all the Less Potential used of my Autism Spectrum Condition with a Dedicated effort toward Art in Both Song and Dance Free Style without a Book at all. And yes, I was diagnosed by Four Professionals and My Sister was too; in case anyone still thinks just 'because' i've expressed Philosophy Here both Artistically and Deeper than Colors of Black and White, I am Frigging Insane as I put up with that Bullstuff here when i was curing myself of the Deficits in Human Potential I lived with in this Autism Spectrum Condition most of my Life.

Some now one has to Self-Advocate and just get the job done no matter how much Ignorance in the Room Refuses to
Move out of the Box and Make a Change that works personally and uniquely tailored for and by them.

It's a matter of moving out of the Box and Science Shows Moving Meditation really works for the Autism Spectrum now
and who knows and feel and senses what comes next; perhaps Poetry and a Real Love Life for so-called Incels too.

And I really Mean, Feel and Sense a Love Life; not just sticking a Body part into a Hole; but yes that too as that
is Part of Human Shadow Nature too; it is what it; is we are Furry and 'Fury' Animals Just like my Cat too with a
'Soul' too like my Cat too if we use it first and continue to use it instead of losing it in all the ways that Metaphorically and Literally comes and goes. True; if a Feral Cat Cat Tamed with Love from 2 Years of the Backwoods of my Home can and will enjoy a Lap of Oxytocin Comfort; Specifically my Wife most of the Day after being a Ruthless Killer of Smaller Prey and a Ruthless Predator of Mating too; Humans should be able to change too. But not until they Seek and Find the Root
Causes of 'the disorder' (a lack of Meaning and Purpose with nothing Holy and Sacred Felt in Life and Comfy Love) and Remedy A 'Soul' Back to Life.

And to Be Clear, these Similar Factors relate to other Countries of Terrorism too; Sure, there will always be Incels when
Men lose their way without Meaning and Purpose in Life that is felt and sensed as Holy and Sacred in Clearly Defined
Social Roles they can and will Depend on through the Life Span now.


'Houston', we have a Real Problem as increasingly we are becoming more the Tools we Co-Create than the Humans who
Co-create and Hug and Hold Hands for F in Real. And the Overall Stakes for the Human Race are enormous in the Coming
Decades and Centuries if we make it that far too. For these young Men are Truly the Canaries in the First World Coal
Mine now; To ignore the Message they are sending is to our Peril not to truly Figure out and Take action as while
these crimes are still relatively rare; all it takes is a Dirty Bomb to truly make the Stuff hit the Fan in all the
Ways 'Dirty Bombs' come and go and all the places they come from that are anywhere with a Lack of Love
in all the ways that truly comes for Life Now.

viewtopic.php?t=218916
I don't entirely understand your message but I think I kind of get the idea.

Sympathy and empathy are unfortunately controversial when applied to criminals. Due to having high empathy levels, I often empathise with these kinds of people just as much as others. It's not something I want to change about myself because that's who I am, I can't be selective in who I do and do not feel for. I've felt for people who have done me wrong before.

To care for a criminal is a difficult thing to do but I firmly believe in reformation above retribution and that all people will, at heart, have the potential within to become good people.

The question here is how these people, who look so much like me, happened to become like that. This is the real conundrum. Much like encryption and decryption keys, perhaps if we discovered what caused it then we could reverse it.



techstepgenr8tion
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07 Sep 2018, 1:34 pm

Mythos wrote:
But if we were, for a minute, to speak of the nature of men as being the majority of perpetrators, you could lay it down to testosterone most likely. Other than that, I don't really know.

It's some combination of testosterone and roles, but if I were to place my bet on which was the chicken and which was the egg - natural selection might have killed off the guys with low T, they needed to be providers for the tribe anyway so that's what was selected for, and testosterone needs to continue to be put to good use.

Along the last few lines of that last point I just took a look to see which gender was getting hit harder by the opioid crisis, not the least bit surprised by what I found:

https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicat ... 2asc%22%7D


Not being a woman I don't know what degree of impact it has for society to tell you that you're unneeded, I'm sure it's not pleasant, but if the opioid crisis at all measures how each gender handles nihilism women are clearly handling it much better. For a lot of guys the 'your not needed' message is tantamount to getting a letter from Rome stating 'The emperor no longer requires your services' which is something like a euphemism for 'go kill yourself - immediately'. Perhaps we're not handling it well because we've had untold thousands of years of conditioning where an unused/unitilized male was supposed to do exactly that.

Also to hit this preemptively - I'm not saying the problem that I just addressed is somehow the fault of women, there's a way in this thread where that perception keeps coming back unsolicited. I just want to zero in on some of the inherent epistemic problems that push guys to go rogue because, clearly, the topic of this thread is about a particular variant of that outcome and I think we can likely have a more productive conversation about the root causes because it's not nearly as politically distracting as the specific original topic.


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aghogday
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07 Sep 2018, 1:51 pm

Mythos wrote:
aghogday wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeMAxFWnaAc

Major Factors underlying the Increase in Rampage Killings Among Young Males Studied Deeper in the Link Below.

Of Course More Males are doing the Dirty Deed as Males overall are responsible for Close to 90 Percent of all Violent
Crime but Rampage Killings are a Specific and Still Overall Statistically Rare Crime; although Definitely Increasing.

Before 'the days' of the End of Last Century with the Columbine Killings ending that Century, Young Males
Committing these Mass Shootings were in the small, overall, minority of Mass Shootings then.

And in the 50's, Mass Shootings were almost non-existent when Social Roles were Clearly Defined in Terms of
Communal Meaning and Purpose in Life that was even felt and sensed as Holy and Sacred in the Work Place too.

Things have changed and THIS IS A First World Problem too.

Oh yeah; and by Statistics as far as those 'Trump Feared Latinos' they are the Ethnic Demographic Least Likely to commit a Mass Shooting.

It's also worth noting Latinos more often as a Minority Stick together with a Feel and Sense of Communal Meaning and
Purpose with yes High Percentages of Latinos Sticking Together with a Religion with a Moral Code of something at least.

Sure, if you don't want anymore Violence Kill all the Males and see what Happens next at my best attempt her for
Sarcasm as it isn't like no one has Studied this Topic in much Greater Detail than simply Black and White for
you can/will Hate the Devil all you like but until you remove the Hell there is no use in reforming the Devil now.

True, it's easier to have Sympathy for the Devil too once you've done Devil and Lived in Hell too.

This though is all about Rational Thinking Divorced as much as possible from Personal Feelings which
is literally impossible to do unless one is a Frigging Robot; done tHere; done tHat too.

And yes; still got 'the Devil' and 'the Robot' in my Back Pocket as 'Shadows' and Reason' plays a role in life too
as long as both Are tamed with Empathy, Sympathy, Compassion; and Yes, enough Cognitive Empathy to understand
that we walk in Vastly Different Shoes depending on Nature and Nature; and in this Case the Evidence at Hand points
to Nurture in this Very Specific Case of Young Men Historically committing many more Mass shootings now that Kill Folks Dead.

And it's true I have Empathy, Sympathy, Compassion, and Cognitive Empathy for Literal and Black and White Thinking as
there were Decades where I had practically no ability to use my unused and withering away Human Potential to both See
Do Art Life More with Color than the Black and White Literal think of Systemizing Mind.

My Psychiatrist and Psychotherapist Literally Agree that i remedied all the Less Potential used of my Autism Spectrum Condition with a Dedicated effort toward Art in Both Song and Dance Free Style without a Book at all. And yes, I was diagnosed by Four Professionals and My Sister was too; in case anyone still thinks just 'because' i've expressed Philosophy Here both Artistically and Deeper than Colors of Black and White, I am Frigging Insane as I put up with that Bullstuff here when i was curing myself of the Deficits in Human Potential I lived with in this Autism Spectrum Condition most of my Life.

Some now one has to Self-Advocate and just get the job done no matter how much Ignorance in the Room Refuses to
Move out of the Box and Make a Change that works personally and uniquely tailored for and by them.

It's a matter of moving out of the Box and Science Shows Moving Meditation really works for the Autism Spectrum now
and who knows and feel and senses what comes next; perhaps Poetry and a Real Love Life for so-called Incels too.

And I really Mean, Feel and Sense a Love Life; not just sticking a Body part into a Hole; but yes that too as that
is Part of Human Shadow Nature too; it is what it; is we are Furry and 'Fury' Animals Just like my Cat too with a
'Soul' too like my Cat too if we use it first and continue to use it instead of losing it in all the ways that Metaphorically and Literally comes and goes. True; if a Feral Cat Cat Tamed with Love from 2 Years of the Backwoods of my Home can and will enjoy a Lap of Oxytocin Comfort; Specifically my Wife most of the Day after being a Ruthless Killer of Smaller Prey and a Ruthless Predator of Mating too; Humans should be able to change too. But not until they Seek and Find the Root
Causes of 'the disorder' (a lack of Meaning and Purpose with nothing Holy and Sacred Felt in Life and Comfy Love) and Remedy A 'Soul' Back to Life.

And to Be Clear, these Similar Factors relate to other Countries of Terrorism too; Sure, there will always be Incels when
Men lose their way without Meaning and Purpose in Life that is felt and sensed as Holy and Sacred in Clearly Defined
Social Roles they can and will Depend on through the Life Span now.


'Houston', we have a Real Problem as increasingly we are becoming more the Tools we Co-Create than the Humans who
Co-create and Hug and Hold Hands for F in Real. And the Overall Stakes for the Human Race are enormous in the Coming
Decades and Centuries if we make it that far too. For these young Men are Truly the Canaries in the First World Coal
Mine now; To ignore the Message they are sending is to our Peril not to truly Figure out and Take action as while
these crimes are still relatively rare; all it takes is a Dirty Bomb to truly make the Stuff hit the Fan in all the
Ways 'Dirty Bombs' come and go and all the places they come from that are anywhere with a Lack of Love
in all the ways that truly comes for Life Now.

viewtopic.php?t=218916
I don't entirely understand your message but I think I kind of get the idea.

Sympathy and empathy are unfortunately controversial when applied to criminals. Due to having high empathy levels, I often empathise with these kinds of people just as much as others. It's not something I want to change about myself because that's who I am, I can't be selective in who I do and do not feel for. I've felt for people who have done me wrong before.

To care for a criminal is a difficult thing to do but I firmly believe in reformation above retribution and that all people will, at heart, have the potential within to become good people.

The question here is how these people, who look so much like me, happened to become like that. This is the real conundrum. Much like encryption and decryption keys, perhaps if we discovered what caused it then we could reverse it.


Smiles; at least the 'Formatting' of 'my Message' Held together in what's Left that Works on this Internet Site.

Apparently, the Research Currently Suggests that a Reduction in Social Roles Folks Find Meaning and Purpose
in is actually not just An 'Incel Problem'; but an overall Problem of A Newer Global Initiative all About Cost Cutting
Human out of Meaningful and Purposeful Life for Subsistence, Shelter, Mates, and Family Village Ways of Raising the
Child as the Real Prize of Life now For the Future; And For the Real Love of Life that Bonds Humans together, too.

This is far from an Incel Issue alone as far as 'getting some' goes as I've Got extended Family Members who
get Plenty of 'that' and still end up Lost in Jail for they have little to no Meaning and Purpose in Life without
Much Feeling and Sense of Enjoying Life without the Bible Belt Drug Addict theme and meme as Scientifically
assessed in Real Research too; to make Life Feel and Sense like something anything 'Real' to them at all.

Anyway, as far as 'Sympathy for the Devils' go, I find it Ironic that the So-Called 'Love Your Enemy' Bible Thumpers
where I live have little to no Love for those who are even different from them who mean and do no Harm to them.

But Yes, Science explains that well too along with the fact that Humans are becoming Obsolete and one reason so
many folks have difficulty understanding me is I Don't Pick and Choose which 'Resource' is 'Higher and Mightier'
of what Brings me to Actual Empirical Results of a Good Life now. Some Folks Refuse to Believe they are just
Another Part of Nature; And Some Folks Realize they are and do nothing about that Human Nature looking
at the Rest of it deeper to remedy their issues at hand and that is part of the 'Real Beast' of relying on
Book Learning only and never truly looking to Nature Outside of oneself And Within to find
the answers for the Individual that Really Work that makes Life Good From Head to Toe and
all around too. When a Person is filled up inside there is nothing to take away from anyone
else; or anything that need be Worshipped but Love of Life itself; And A Quickest Way to
Spot a Lie of Love is in all the ways of those who take away
for they are
emptier
inside
Trying to 'Feel'
'it' up someway, somehow
by also Causing Misery and
Suffering now more for the
Innocent and 'the Guilty' among us too.
Anyway, here are the resources too; as Science does come in Handy too.
In all Stuff Life a Balance makes it 'right'; Real Chaos is any System out of Balance
for the Greatest Works of Art Look Like Chaos for those who cannot and will not see
the Value of the Darker Fibers; and or the More Colorful Fibers For All of Life's Painting now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SOQduoLgRw


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07 Sep 2018, 5:38 pm

Women are just less violent. In high school I knew a girl who hated me. She thought I was a loser nerd. Even though she hated me and scorned me, she never committed a single violent act against me.

She told her boyfriend to beat me up and he did but that wouldn't show up in the statistics of violent acts committed by women because she personally never committed a single violent act against me.


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07 Sep 2018, 7:13 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
She told her boyfriend to beat me up and he did but that wouldn't show
up in the statistics of violent acts committed by women because she
personally never committed a single violent act against me.


Of course not: it’ll rightly show up in the statistics of what men will do to impress a woman, and socially awkward dudes like us would be well advised to note that
1) they’re very likely to find themselves on the receiving end of the violence, and
2) they’re also likely to be taken precisely as examples of the bad behavior they suffer from others, if not to be considered outright perverts who can’t be trusted anywhere near a woman, and hence deserving of any violence they get.


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07 Sep 2018, 7:26 pm

To the extent that one might find themselves on the receiving end the apprehension that they're of low social or economic status, part of the never-ending embarrassment of going out to shop, going to get gasoline, just trying to make your way in the public sphere is having to do all kinds of extra things to demonstrate to other people (a lot of women but, true, some premadonna guys) that you're not jonesing to rape them. That can include taking a different street into your development because you were driving behind someone longer than was comfortable, or stopping to window shop, not because you want to but because someone your age was walking in the same direction by themselves and you don't even want to be near them because you don't want to be wrestling with the implied accusations. It's hardly any wonder then that people who have to contemplate these things constantly may increasingly build up certain things in their body language, which would target them as threats.

All of this makes me really wonder if the problem here has far, far less to do with gender dynamics and much more to do with the notion that we treat Dunbar's number as irrelevant. We used to live in small village, surrounded by people who could attest to our character. To a degree that was a prison because what you did as a kid hung around your neck just about to your last dying day but at the same time in our current culture, the moment you leave the immediate sphere of people who know just about everything there is to know about you and think you're okay or even a laudable human being, all of that good will all but dissipates the moment you're out among strangers again.


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08 Sep 2018, 6:52 am

Spiderpig wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
She told her boyfriend to beat me up and he did but that wouldn't show
up in the statistics of violent acts committed by women because she
personally never committed a single violent act against me.


Of course not: it’ll rightly show up in the statistics of what men will do to impress a woman

I don't believe anyone is keeping statistics on violent acts done by men to impress women. I would suggest that it would instead show up in the statistics of violent acts committed by men, motives not being considered.


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08 Sep 2018, 6:54 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
All of this makes me really wonder if the problem here has far, far less to do with gender dynamics and much more to do with the notion that we treat Dunbar's number as irrelevant. We used to live in small village, surrounded by people who could attest to our character. To a degree that was a prison because what you did as a kid hung around your neck just about to your last dying day but at the same time in our current culture, the moment you leave the immediate sphere of people who know just about everything there is to know about you and think you're okay or even a laudable human being, all of that good will all but dissipates the moment you're out among strangers again.

Perhaps I would have been safer if the number of students in my school had been equal to or less than Dunbar's number.


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08 Sep 2018, 9:23 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
Perhaps I would have been safer if the number of students in my school had been equal to or less than Dunbar's number.

Probably not. I think part of the problem with school is it's a bunch of human animals wedged into a social situation that in some ways approximates prison. It takes a bunch of people whose frontal lobes haven't fully developed yet anyway and who don't have great impulse control and then puts them under each other's thumb. The whole thing ends up being more than a little coercive and I don't think it has great moral effects in the end math.

From your example though - that women can do that to men (ie. get other guys to beat a guy up over personal dislike) is a particular way that they're able to wield either an exchange of value or the promise of an exchange of value. Human beings likely are gnarly and antisocial by nature to a degree, plenty of people like this tend to just happen, knowing that though I have to wonder which scenarios give them more power or less power to distort moral reality for the people around them.


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08 Sep 2018, 9:27 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Mythos wrote:
But if we were, for a minute, to speak of the nature of men as being the majority of perpetrators, you could lay it down to testosterone most likely. Other than that, I don't really know.

It's some combination of testosterone and roles, but if I were to place my bet on which was the chicken and which was the egg - natural selection might have killed off the guys with low T, they needed to be providers for the tribe anyway so that's what was selected for, and testosterone needs to continue to be put to good use.

I agree, and I think in the modern day this changes somewhat as gender roles reverse and men are OK to portray the role of the nurturer, the "stay at home dad" in a sense. The irony is that it may be lack of testosterone that is now being more appreciated by women, I'm sure most want strong male figures but most require emotional support atop this. As a result, high testosterone may now be being left behind and could be the cause of these high T males becoming more prominent in assaults due to being left behind in this new paradigm. Just an idea, anyway.

Along the last few lines of that last point I just took a look to see which gender was getting hit harder by the opioid crisis, not the least bit surprised by what I found:

https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicat ... 2asc%22%7D


Not being a woman I don't know what degree of impact it has for society to tell you that you're unneeded, I'm sure it's not pleasant, but if the opioid crisis at all measures how each gender handles nihilism women are clearly handling it much better. For a lot of guys the 'your not needed' message is tantamount to getting a letter from Rome stating 'The emperor no longer requires your services' which is something like a euphemism for 'go kill yourself - immediately'. Perhaps we're not handling it well because we've had untold thousands of years of conditioning where an unused/unitilized male was supposed to do exactly that.

An interesting idea and one that hopefully can be dealt with more sensitivity. The idea of "fragile masculinity" as I've often seen as a stab against men who can't take criticism is often regarded as an insult but I think there's a lot of truth behind it for all men; males have a hardened exterior, but inside they're likely no more different than women, emotionally. I don't think they're entirely symmetrical but rather that they're closer than often imagined.

Also to hit this preemptively - I'm not saying the problem that I just addressed is somehow the fault of women, there's a way in this thread where that perception keeps coming back unsolicited. I just want to zero in on some of the inherent epistemic problems that push guys to go rogue because, clearly, the topic of this thread is about a particular variant of that outcome and I think we can likely have a more productive conversation about the root causes because it's not nearly as politically distracting as the specific original topic.

The idea is that we can enumerate any amount of factors and extrapolate a very real cause if we don't categorise or point fingers. Doing so derails the conversation and becomes more a discussion related to, as you rightly claimed, politics over actual causes. Scoring points isn't what these discussions should be about.

I know this is a weird thing to say in a politics thread but what I mean is that we can talk at length about some of the more important and less divisive aspects of political influence in this epidemic, such as poverty, mental health, accessibility to deadly tools, etc., and this will allow us to actually get somewhere at the conclusion. Everything else is a needless pursuit.




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08 Sep 2018, 9:33 am

Mythos wrote:
I know this is a weird thing to say in a politics thread but what I mean is that we can talk at length about some of the more important and less divisive aspects of political influence in this epidemic, such as poverty, mental health, accessibility to deadly tools, etc., and this will allow us to actually get somewhere at the conclusion. Everything else is a needless pursuit.

It might only sound weird because of what a bulk of people do contrary to that approach. Makes perfect sense to me though.


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08 Sep 2018, 9:49 am

RetroGamer87 wrote:
I don't believe anyone is keeping statistics on violent acts done by men to impress women. I would suggest that it would instead show up in the statistics of violent acts committed by men, motives not being considered.


Their loss!


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08 Sep 2018, 6:47 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
RetroGamer87 wrote:
Perhaps I would have been safer if the number of students in my school had been equal to or less than Dunbar's number.

Probably not. I think part of the problem with school is it's a bunch of human animals wedged into a social situation that in some ways approximates prison. It takes a bunch of people whose frontal lobes haven't fully developed yet anyway and who don't have great impulse control and then puts them under each other's thumb. The whole thing ends up being more than a little coercive and I don't think it has great moral effects in the end math.

From your example though - that women can do that to men (ie. get other guys to beat a guy up over personal dislike) is a particular way that they're able to wield either an exchange of value or the promise of an exchange of value. Human beings likely are gnarly and antisocial by nature to a degree, plenty of people like this tend to just happen, knowing that though I have to wonder which scenarios give them more power or less power to distort moral reality for the people around them.

I just saying that the statistics can be distorted when some women are committing acts of violence via proxy. That girl wanted to inflict bodily harm against me yet she'll never show up in the stats on violent acts committed by women. She didn't do it herself because she didn't need to.


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