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ed
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22 Jun 2005, 11:12 am

As it says on one of my bumper stickers, "if you voted for Bush you have blood on your hands."



Endersdragon
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22 Jun 2005, 12:23 pm

Ed please talk to the topic not just to hating Bush thank you.



ed
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22 Jun 2005, 1:10 pm

The purpose of the Civil War was to preserve the union. (or, the purpose of the War Between the States was to dissolve the union) :lol: Thus it can be considered a war of self-preservation.

Freeing the slaves was a separate issue. While freeing the slaves accomplished good, I believe it created the notion that the Federal Government has authority over the individual states, which of course is the exact opposite of what the Constitution says!

The Iraq War is different; in this case the President (for whatever reason) decided he wanted to invade Iraq and topple Sadaam Hussein. Since he did not have any reasons to justify the war, he ordered the CIA to create fake intelligence that would say that Iraq had WMD's, and was about to use them on us. Using this fake intelligence, he managed to bamboozle Congress and the American people, and get his approval. Note that the rest of the world (except for Tony Blair) is not so gullable, and said no.

Because the Civil War was not about freeing the slaves, it has nothing in common with the Iraq war.



Endersdragon
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22 Jun 2005, 1:16 pm

Well if you go by the notion that we went to war with Iraq for Oil its Hegomonic reasons right there (similiar to keeping the Union alive by taking the Souths infostructure.) And just remember Kerry believed Bush too (and said they have WMDs much more then Bush did) and also remember the 2000 RNC platform said nothing bout Iraq; the 2000 DNC platform said "we will seek to remove Saddam Hussien from power" (or something like that I forget the exact words.)
Ender



ed
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22 Jun 2005, 1:37 pm

The South seceeded from the union in response to Lincoln's reelection.

If the Blue states were to seceed from the union because of Bush's reelection, would you favor having Bush wage war to preserve the union?



Endersdragon
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22 Jun 2005, 2:00 pm

First off it was because of his elected not reelected he was reelected in the middle of the war. Next remember not a single person in most Southern states voted for him. And third are you now saying you hate the Civil War too. And lastly you didnt debate anything I said you just made new arguements generally thats a bad debating tactic as it means you concede the points.
Ender



ed
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22 Jun 2005, 2:10 pm

Endersdragon wrote:
Well if you go by the notion that we went to war with Iraq for Oil its Hegomonic reasons right there (similiar to keeping the Union alive by taking the Souths infostructure.) And just remember Kerry believed Bush too (and said they have WMDs much more then Bush did) and also remember the 2000 RNC platform said nothing bout Iraq; the 2000 DNC platform said "we will seek to remove Saddam Hussien from power" (or something like that I forget the exact words.)
Ender


1. I don't think we went into Iraq for oil.
2. we didn't go to war with the south for their "infrastructure." Being an agricultural region, they didn't even have much.
3. I don't care what Kerry or the Democrats said or wrote. I didn't support them then, and I only support them now when they oppose Bush's policies. Kerry was stupid enough to fall for Bush's lies, and that doesn't make him prime presidential material in my book!
4. Party platforms are always bu!!s**t.


oh, and sorry about the "reelection" mistake... you are correct. My point was that the secession wasn't over slavery.



Edgerunner76
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22 Jun 2005, 2:18 pm

I've disgusted when the Republican party of today is refered to a the Party of Lincoln. I'm absolutely certain that Abraham Lincoln would have nothing to do with today's Repugnantcan Party.

I also believe that if Abraham Lincoln could have seen the furture and viewed the total lunacy of a NASCAR race (grown men going in a circle really fast), and its heavily southern fanbase, he'd have said "Let them go."

Seeing politics in this country today, I also say we should have let them go. The North would have eventually dominated the South economically. And, we wouldn't have to deal with southern politicians.



ed
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22 Jun 2005, 2:23 pm

good points! :lol:



techstepgenr8tion
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22 Jun 2005, 3:04 pm

I think you guys are forgetting to mention that Rumsfeld would look a lot edgier if he was a pair of burning walruses :lol: :roll:


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ed
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22 Jun 2005, 5:06 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
I think you guys are forgetting to mention that Rumsfeld would look a lot edgier if he was a pair of burning walruses :lol: :roll:


I would look a lot happier if Rumsfeld were a pair of burning walruses, introduce him to some of the pain he's caused to so many tens of thousands of others.

:D :D



ed
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22 Jun 2005, 5:14 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Feste-Fenris wrote:
That said... Bush lied about the Weapons of Mass Destruction... which is VERY unethical...


My only arguement on that though has been and still is did *he* or anyone else even in the UN know he was lying? The way Saddam was ducking and playing games with the inspectors, it almost seems like it would lead any person who didn't have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight to believe he had em.


I knew bush was lying, and was screaming about it more than six months before the invasion! In fact, it was so obvious he was lying that I really don't know how so many people were taken in! Are Americans really that stupid? (yes)



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22 Jun 2005, 11:08 pm

Edgerunner76 wrote:
I've disgusted when the Republican party of today is refered to a the Party of Lincoln. I'm absolutely certain that Abraham Lincoln would have nothing to do with today's Repugnantcan Party.


No politician from that long ago would side with either party, they're both too corrupt. I personally don't like the party system. From a political view, I almost wish the South would've won. Then again, I'm from the South which would make me a bit biased. Don't worry, I don't like NASCAR.


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techstepgenr8tion
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22 Jun 2005, 11:49 pm

ed wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Feste-Fenris wrote:
That said... Bush lied about the Weapons of Mass Destruction... which is VERY unethical...


My only arguement on that though has been and still is did *he* or anyone else even in the UN know he was lying? The way Saddam was ducking and playing games with the inspectors, it almost seems like it would lead any person who didn't have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight to believe he had em.


I knew bush was lying, and was screaming about it more than six months before the invasion! In fact, it was so obvious he was lying that I really don't know how so many people were taken in! Are Americans really that stupid? (yes)


Huh. How so? What was your proof? Was it just a gut instinct?


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ed
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23 Jun 2005, 4:43 am

These are excerpts from a blog I was writing at the time:

Quote:
I've been following the news about Bushy wanting to invade Iraq, despite the fact that the rest of the world (with the possible exception of the State of Great Britain) is opposed. Be a neat war - us against the rest of the world. Makes me wonder... is Bushy really the Antichrist?
Sunday August 18, 2002, 4:30 PM


Quote:
Now he's [Bush] working on persuading us that we should attack Iraq. The argument goes something like this: "I have proof that Sadaam Hussein is trying to get weapons of mass destruction, but I can't tell you what it is, for National Security reasons. But you can trust me. Let's Roll!"
Yeah, right, Bushy. I'll trust you on the next cold day in Hell. Can you say "impeach?"
Tuesday August 27, 2002


Quote:
Thursday, November 21, 2002
President Bush sure is confident he can lick Hussein... I sure hope he doesn't wind up licking his (our) wounds instead.



Quote:
Tuesday, December 10, 2002
President Bush says we can't trust Iraq's statements, because they lie. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!! !