Page 2 of 2 [ 17 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2


User avatar

Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,011
Location: 200 miles south of Little Rock

13 Jun 2018, 8:39 am

cubedemon6073 wrote:
Free will = freedom to choose to obey or chose to disobey
No free will = no choice in the matter

How would being spiritually perfect take away our free will? That's what I'm asking...

I understand, and being "spiritually perfect" does not take away free will. I am trying to respond to your question: "why set it up to where we need pain and improvement?"

I believe we were given the "free will" or "freedom of choice" to obey or disobey, and then the self-induced pain of our disobedience is what can drive us toward improvement...and that was not a setup to assure pain and suffering, just a certainty that our self-will-induced pain suffering would prompt us to pursue pain-free obedience.

The presumption you're making is that if someone is made spiritually perfect then it takes away their free will.

I make no such presumption, and the fact (or so I believe) that Lucifer (first perfect) exercised free will and became disobedient would disprove any such presumption. All I am saying is that we also were pure or "perfect" (sinless) at the time of creation but were still given the freedom to choose obedience or disobedience rather than being "locked in" at "perfect" -- mere robots or droids -- with no such freedom.

cubedemon6073 wrote:
Another presumption is that God is spiritually perfect. Based upon the first presumption or premise then the conclusion that follows from these premises is that God can't free will.

Not true, and that is why I had mentioned His absolute sovereignty. God can do anything He chooses, just like us -- free will -- but whatever He might ever do or not do is still "perfect" simply because He is God and He answers to nothing other than His own impeccable, never-changing character.

I began looking for someone like me when I was five ...
My search ended at 59 ... right here on WrongPlanet.