Will the Middle East ever get better?

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05 Jul 2018, 9:51 pm

Hi all. This thread isn't going to contain as much logical substance as most of my threads. I'm just really depressed regarding the state of the world right now.

Will the Middle East ever get better?

Middle Eastern history is basically the most depressing thing ever. Human history began in the Middle East because they invented writing. The people of the Middle East were observing the stars, building mega-structures, and writing the Epic of Gilgamesh back when my Celtic ancestors were still prehistoric essentially.

Nowadays, the Middle East is the most depressing place on earth. It's dangerous because of all the extreme fundies everywhere.

I also think that the Middle East has a great deal of natural beauty … but a lot of people are afraid to go see it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VN5EoMGb-xw

Will the Middle East ever rediscover the intellectualism that made it great during ancient times? Will this happen in my lifetime?

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The_Face_of_Boo
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06 Jul 2018, 2:51 am

You should check Muscat city in Oman too :

As for the question, the short answer is....no... no :-/

naturalplastic
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06 Jul 2018, 6:12 am

Good question.

Don't have a good answer.

Except to say this: to understand the middle east today you should read the history of Christian Europe in the Fifteen and Sixteen hundreds. The Middle East seems to be going through a similar phase in its history today.

Martin Luther sparked the Protestant Reformation in 1517, and for the next two centuries Europe would be bathed in the blood of wars of religion between Christian sects. It took a couple of centuries to get through the Reformation, and get to the Enlightenment Age of 18th Century when things got less sectarian and more secular. I hope it doesn't take that long for the Middle East to get through its Reformation, and that the folks there survive to get to their own Age of Reason.

DarthMetaKnight
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06 Jul 2018, 1:38 pm

Check this out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wFuYy_W7T0

*sigh* I really wish that Saudi Arabia was a free country. I would love to go there and see their wildlife … but their royal family terrifies me.

When will Western leaders stop kissing Saudi ass? That's what I want to know!

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isloth
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06 Jul 2018, 2:18 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

When will Western leaders stop kissing Saudi ass? That's what I want to know!

Presumably when all other nations in the region aren't considered a bigger problem, and thus they don't need Arabia's "friendly" and "stabilizing" influence.

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naturalplastic
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06 Jul 2018, 3:16 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:

The moment we all switch to solar.

Daniel89
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06 Jul 2018, 3:24 pm

I doubt it. Europe only moved on because it reformed Christianity, Islam cannot be reformed so they will be continue to be a mess. Also centuries of inbreeding will be a great barrier to intellectualism.

The_Face_of_Boo
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06 Jul 2018, 3:34 pm

Christianity barely got reformed, Europe simply became less Christian and that what moved it on. If Church had it their way then Europe would have stayed backward.

Turkey and Malaysia are good examples of Muslim countries demonstrating how having less religion (islam in this case) made them greater countries; well...until Erdogan trying to bring it back.

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06 Jul 2018, 3:41 pm

And if only Carthage helped Hannibal in his campaign against Rome.

Sigh, in that alternative history I would probably having some Italian slaves serving pasta to me. :twisted:

naturalplastic
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06 Jul 2018, 5:01 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

This. It wasn't that Christianity itself got "reformed". Though that was a small part of it too. It was that religion itself became circumscribed in its role in society. And those two countries are good examples. And sadly maybe Turkey maybe backsliding.

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07 Jul 2018, 2:56 pm

This needs to end ASAP.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nWbXkq0VkA

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NoClearMind53
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08 Jul 2018, 1:41 am

naturalplastic wrote:

There's one big problem with this comparison. When the "Age of Reason" occurred in Europe, they were the first. There was no "older brother" looking down on Europe as primitive and backwards. It seems like this rivalry causes a lot of the population to just want to dig their heels in. The Middle East doesn't exist in a vacuum. They are very aware of the culture of the West. It's a problem of pride and identity. The "Age of Reason" thing isn't just something they can import and claim as their own.

NoClearMind53
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08 Jul 2018, 2:04 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Turkey and Malaysia are good examples of Muslim countries demonstrating how having less religion (islam in this case) made them greater countries; well...until Erdogan trying to bring it back.

But a lot of Muslims don't see it this way. Even a lot of Turkish expats living in the US see Erdoğan as Turkey's "savior". They aren't all people you can easily dismiss as religious fanatics either. A lot of them aren't even particularly strict Muslims, at least not in private. There's a disturbing kind of "victim mentality" that plays into it, not unlike Trump supporters here in the US.

The_Face_of_Boo
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10 Jul 2018, 6:54 am

NoClearMind53 wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Turkey and Malaysia are good examples of Muslim countries demonstrating how having less religion (islam in this case) made them greater countries; well...until Erdogan trying to bring it back.

He was the savior economically (yet Turkey isn't doing great economically now because he focused too much on real estate and constructions); but if there was no strong opposition against his Islamisation view (especially within the army) then he would have done it in his way: islamising Turkey - meaning banning alcohol, forcing veiling, Sharia laws ...etc. Hell, he even attempted to forbid kissing in Turkish Romcoms but actors (who, most of them, are pro Ataturk) and their fans protested by kissing more on TV and in public; there was an incident between pro-kissing and anti-kissing folks lol.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/roger-fr ... 68282.html

If he had absolute popularity and public approval, then Turkey would turn to something like Iran in no time:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 39816.html

SaveFerris
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10 Jul 2018, 11:24 am

Will the Middle East ever get better?

Nope

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/07/09/midd ... index.html

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10 Jul 2018, 10:10 pm

Something to Ponder: Many of the women who live in Egypt right now may be related to Cleopatra.

Whenever I read about the ancient Middle East, I think "I want that back."

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