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kraftiekortie
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21 Jul 2018, 2:49 pm

It left me convinced that the times were tough in Jesus’ day, and that he offered a counterpoint.

As far as making me a convert to Christianity: not unless Jesus himself presented Himself to me.

It is true that Jesus’ message was conveyed by a man in touch with all the people of his time and place. His message was conveyed in simple language with some poetic symbolism and aphoristic folk wisdom.

I do believe “the medium is the message.” It’s how you present the message.

Bicentennial presented his message in historical, not hysterical terms. People with no knowledge of the Pharisees should ask Bicentennial about them. And, if they so desire, conduct research pertaining to them.

I would say that an objective inquiry would reveal that the Jews didn’t rat on Jesus. It was the Temple establishment and their allies.



Hollywood_Guy
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21 Jul 2018, 10:07 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Peacesells wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Hi all. Yeah, this is another thread about religion. I was raised by an uber-religious father with narcissistic personality disorder. This has had a big effect on me.

Anyways, I want to talk about a very creepy Bible verse.

"Most certainly I tell you, all sins of the descendants of man will be forgiven, including their blasphemies with which they may blaspheme; but whoever may blaspheme against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin" —because they said, "He has an unclean spirit."
- Mark 3:28-30

A lot of people have told me. "God can forgive almost anything, including murder. A murderer who repents before he dies can go to heaven. The only person that God can never forgive is an unbeliever."

Am I the only person who finds this mentality to be incredibly unjust? Why do so many people think that free speech is Biblical in origin? It obviously isn't.

Free speech? What are you talking about?


A lot of American conservatives have told me that "American values" like democracy and free speech are Biblical in origin.

This doesn't make any sense to me. The Bible makes it very clear that blasphemy is the worst crime possible. Free speech never could have come out of that.


What are the exact quotes of American conservatives who have said this? All I heard from them is that free speech comes from their understanding of Judeo-Christian cultural heritage. That's not necessarily the same thing as it actually originating in the Bible.



HistoryGal
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23 Jul 2018, 1:10 pm

Kraftie, it is verboten in my neck of the woods to tell Jews to have new beliefs about Jesus. You are and always have been and will be Chosen by G-D. Nothing else needs saying.



DarthMetaKnight
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23 Jul 2018, 1:15 pm

HistoryGal wrote:
Kraftie, it is verboten in my neck of the woods to tell Jews to have new beliefs about Jesus.


Yeah. I'm really glad that I don't live in Orlando. A lot of people on the internet who live in Florida tell me that it sucks.

Perhaps America should give Florida back to Spain. :lol:

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You are and always have been and will be Chosen by G-D. Nothing else needs saying.


I see no evidence that G-D even exists.


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Cash__
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28 Jul 2018, 8:41 pm

Fnord wrote:
^Another word-wall.

Fellow believers, PLEASE SIMPLIFY AND CONDENSE your beliefs before posting them. Remember that you are not witnessing to other Biblical scholars who are indwelt with the Holy Spirit and who have spent their entire lives marinating in the Word, but to ordinary people who have likely mis-heard and mis-read the Gospels, if they have ever heard or read them at all!

Keep it simple.

I agree with Fnord. I didn't read the post because it was just too long. I don't have the attention span for it.



funeralxempire
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29 Jul 2018, 12:45 pm

Spiderpig wrote:
If God can never forgive an unbeliever, there's one thing God can't do, so He's not almighty.


It's okay, even if he can't forgive me for not believing, I can forgive him for not existing.


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naturalplastic
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29 Jul 2018, 2:18 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
Spiderpig wrote:
If God can never forgive an unbeliever, there's one thing God can't do, so He's not almighty.


.


That's a word game. Saying that God can never forgive you for doing X doesn't disprove that he is omnipotent, because you're using the word "can" in a different sense than in the sense of "can god build a boulder so big that he cant lift it". In the former context "can" means that its so disqusting to God that you're a nonbeliever that he chooses to never forgive you. Not that he literally doesn't have the ability to do so.

In contrast the boulder thing does in fact seem to disprove omnipotence as being too paradoxical.



DarthMetaKnight
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30 Jul 2018, 6:30 pm

Hollywood_Guy wrote:
What are the exact quotes of American conservatives who have said this? All I heard from them is that free speech comes from their understanding of Judeo-Christian cultural heritage. That's not necessarily the same thing as it actually originating in the Bible.


Perhaps you are right (about what conservatives say) but this is a whole other can of worms.

"Judeo-Christian cultural heritage?" I don't see how that led to free speech. Christianity has existed for thousands of years. Most Christians were pro-authoritarian until recently.

The modern concept of free speech came out of the liberal enlightenment, which was inspired by Athenian democracy and Ancient Greek philosophy. Native American culture may have played a small role as well.


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blazingstar
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30 Jul 2018, 7:00 pm

DMK: There are two main problems with the Bible. The first is that most people who are quoting the Bible or using the Bible to justify their behavior (especially poor behavior towards others) do not really know what is in the Bible. This results in discussions that are meaningless.

The second problem is that the New Testament, such as it is, was not written during Jesus' lifetime, and it was not written by specific people named Mark, John, Luke and Matthew. The earliest gospel, Mark, was written many years after Jesus' death. It was not written by the hand of god, however you may conceive of her, it was written by people, even groups of people, most of whom had an agenda to push. Also, they were copied over and over by scribes who may not actually copy correctly, or may editorialize somewhat. A historical study of the Bible reveals the likely agendas. Much of what Christians rely on for guidance are the letters of Paul, a Roman who converted to Christianity long after Jesus died. The holiest of holy, in my upbringing, was the Nicene Creed. Then I learned it was chosen by some ruler (can't remember anymore who it was) from some competing political agencies.

Nevermind Matthew, how can anyone read Leviticus and think that is the way we should live our lives? Every time someone gets all riled up because of this or that which is in the Bible and therefore must be true, should try living their lives by Leviticus.

The more one studies the Bible and the history of Christianity, the less it becomes possible to believe.


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auntblabby
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30 Jul 2018, 10:40 pm

the late entertainer and biblical scholar [!] steve allen, wrote a book detailing over 5000 errors in translation, of the bible. that was just errors in translation, not to mention the other things that Blazingstar mentioned.