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Conner42
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23 Aug 2018, 10:58 am

lostonearth35 wrote:
NTs are never truly happy unless they are copying each other like mindless clones to be part of a "group". It's in their genes.

Wanting to be a mindless clone usually becomes most prominent in the teenage years, although these days it can be younger school-aged kids. They want to wear what all their "friends" are wearing or they will be a complete and utter outcast from society. But don't don't even think of suggesting the public school supply uniforms to solve this problem, because the young ones will whine in their shrill voices, "BUT THEN WE'LL ALL LOOK THE SAAAAAME!!" :roll:
I actually did go to a school that has uniforms. That didn't prevent cliques from forming or people from being alienated. Also, outside of school, anything goes when clothes are concerned, so it still didn't stop clothing trends.

Also, the uniforms were uncomfortable, haha!



Conner42
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23 Aug 2018, 11:18 am

cubedemon6073 wrote:
http://archive.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2010/06/06/sweet_land_of_conformity/

check this out and tell me what you all think. It explains a lot.
This was an interesting read. One question that has been on my mind on is if conformity is a conscious decision because I kind of think it isn't. I don't think a lot of people realize when they are or not conforming to a certain idea, but I don't have any hard evidence to support this and it doesn't look like anyone has researched this as well. But the article kind of suggests my hypothesis might be true.

It's incredibly hilarious that the article talks about how Americans conform to every other kind of authority except for the government. I guess it kind of makes sense because our culture comes from breaking away from a totalitarian regime, so there's the inherent distrust of government but that seems to be where "nonconformity" ends because they still have a lot of ideas that they conform to due religion, family, or even just group identity. They're critical on the government but not towards anything else in their life.



aghogday
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23 Aug 2018, 8:50 pm

Overall, Humans Make Rules to establish Order in what otherWise Might Terrify Them as the Order of Life that is Actually
Change that tends to Scare some Folks; and even Disgust them when Different from the Rules and the Norm come into View and Life starts to Seem more Chaotic, too; oh no, as 'they' say. Meanwhile, Nature Spirals as Rhyme in Peace and Harmony of Balance while Humans make Buildings that/who Edge the Sky in Angles and Straight Lines to calm their Fears of Spirals and other stuff that doesn't Follow Linear Thinking Rules, as such still now, too, Across the Entire Page of Life now too.

And what is also 'Terribly Sad' is Folks Who are more Likely to Conform to the Rule of Order in Common Binds of Bonds That Make Them Feel More Comfortable When the Uncertainties of Life Come on More Strong; when Purpose and Meaning for Life that Folks can Count on For Making Subsistence together Becomes an Environment of Scarcity; They are Ripe for the 'true' and yes 'false' Leaders away from the Actual Conformity of Rules who Leads them into whatever Helps the Actual
Non-Conformist Leader who takes the Conformists on a Wild "Mr. Toad Wild Ride"; Wherever Mr. Toad with Just another Big T wants to Lead the Group Think People as Puppets on a String. In other Words, by Very Nature, Extreme Conformists Are Ripe to be Controlled for the More one Fears Chaos and Embraces Rules the Less Likely 'They' will able to Break Away from the Group Think of Common Rule; No Matter What Fresh Hell A Mr. 'T' Will take and make them next in Fresh T Hell.

I Live in a Locality, as assessed by Social Science, overall, as the Worst Place in the United States to attempt to be different; in other words, away from the Common Group Think that Permeates a Locality like mine with Several Military Bases and the Title once held in the Record Books as the Locality with the Most Churches Per Square Miles, too.

A Thing is, where there are Homogenous Groups of Humans that and who do the Group Think way of Life; Social Roles And Statuses are more Predictable; And Folks in General may be more Comforted this way and less likely to go a Societal Criminal Way of Life. This surely isn't, overall, an Evil way of Life, unless one is an Outlier of the Group in whatever Physical, Mental, or Emotional Attributes the Outcast this way is Flavored with as that is the Role of Outlier they come to be as Ouch, Outcast from the Group, which in Terms of Overall Human Ancestral ways means one is much more likely to Starve to Death without Being Part of the Group Think and Rules and Overall Ways of Doing Stuff together for Common Binds and Bonds Same for Hairless Apes Stronger together to get the Job of Life done for Survive and even God, Yes, Thrive, now.

In Modern Days, although Many of Us who are Outlier, Still Carry the Instinctual Fear of Being Outcast from the Group, Technological Advancement that Historical Loving Hairless Apes Bring as reality to us now by Working Hand in Hand
actually give the Outcasts A Huge; Yes, Huuuuge Advantage they did not have before; namely they can and will go mostly
their own way with Technologies like Groceries coming to one's Home from Super-Walmart; even if one doesn't care at all
to Mix with the Locals as such at a Huge Store Like that. And yes, there is Amazon and Stuff Like That as the Non-Conformist and Outcast more and more can and will Live without Mixing with the Rest. And Oh, God, Yes, Online
Brings Some Fish out to Bigger Sees Globally Who Will See some Other Fish at Least As Vaguely Similar to
Speak to, too, at least, even if, they don't get a reply.

Honestly, Given this and a Thousand More Other Advantages; these are the Best Days, I for one, have ever seen
as an Outcast, and yes, Financial Independence Helps for no Matter what the Written Rules are in the Work Place;
as if one Doesn't Follow the Implicit Social Order one may never get ahead And be Damned out of the Work Place too;
Yes, I Conformed a whole lot to Survive in the Work Place for 33 years and 19 Years in School; and I'm even Writing so-called 'Normal' to get the Privilege, Still, to Communicate here, Just for Fun with Never Any Real Chance of Reciprocal Social Communication, like when I Wrote like a Computer Robot, here before as assessed as such by some, at least too.

What I've come to Find in the Real Flesh and Blood World these days where I Naturally Express myself; as it is so
much easier to do in whatever role one is in life as Financially Independent in a World where let's Face it
the Real God is Money as far as what and who Folks Truly Serve; is yes, what I empirically Measure as Fact
is 'These Days' at least, amongst the Younger Freer Spirit Folks; someone as old at Me at 58 will be their
Folk Hero just for the Freedom of Going Life My Way with Nary a Care what anyone else thinks as
who else but me in this area I live, stretching at the Bottom of the Bible Belt from Biloxi to
Tallahassee will Public Dance 10K Miles in 5 Year as empirically measured by GPS Sports
Watch, every where they go; just as me; for I ain't Scared to Truly and Fully Enjoy Life as
Free as the lines now are moving away from the Edge of the
Page as i go on to enjoy a 225th Dance Week Night with
A Bunch of Folks, 3 to 4 Decades Younger than
me who don't Give an F what anyone
else thinks of them either to do
their own
Dance
of Life too.
Lots of People say They are Non-Conformists and Do The Exact Opposite in Most Behaviors They Do; True, Actions
Speak so
Much
Louder
Than Words
As Well as Words
That Who Dance and Sing
Rather than Head Down and Same.
When I Die, THeRE WiLL Be No Doubt, I Really Loved Lived Freely Uniquely By The Record of FActs And Behavior Who Spirals now
then now Out Of
Straight Line Life.
And With All That Said Song;
"Let's" Dance; not heAr; but somEwHere else.


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24 Aug 2018, 5:25 pm

Asserting that everything that you don't like is evil and should be banned is evil and should be banned........


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25 Aug 2018, 10:44 am

Not that I consider this to be the "truth" but it is an interesting take on the subject of conformity. The more I see of the world the less I understand, and the more it seems that strange ideas should be considered*: Positive disintegration

Quote:
During this phase, existential despair is the predominant emotion. The resolution of this phase begins as individually chosen values begin to replace social mores that have been ingrained by rote and are integrated into a new hierarchy of personal values. These new values often conflict with the person's previous social values. Many of the status quo explanations for the "way things are," learned through education and from the social order, collapse under conscious, individual scrutiny. This causes more conflicts focused on the person's analysis of his or her own reactions to the world at large and of the behavior of self and others. Common behaviors and the ethics of the prevailing social order come to be seen as inadequate, wrong or hypocritical. Positive maladjustment prevails. For Dąbrowski, these crises represent a strong potential for development toward personal growth and mental health. Using a positive definition, mental health reflects more than social conformity: it involves a careful, personal examination of the world and of one's values, leading to the development of an individual personality.

Quote:
The second factor, the social environment (milieu) and peer pressure, constrains individual expression and creativity by encouraging a group view of life and discouraging unique thought and expression. The second factor externalizes values and morals, thereby externalizing conscience. Social forces shape expectations. Behavior and one's talents and creativity are funneled into forms that follow and support the existing social milieu. "My mom says we should always be aware of what our lawn looks like because we want other people to think well of us when they drive by." Because conscience is derived from an external social context, so long as society holds ethical standards, people influenced by the second factor will behave ethically. However, if a society becomes corrupt, people strongly influenced by second factor will not dissent. Socialization without individual examination leads to a rote and robotic existence (the "robopath" described by Ludwig von Bertalanffy). Individual reactions are not unique, they are based upon social contexts ("I cry at funerals and laugh at weddings—everyone does"). According to Dąbrowski, people primarily motivated by second factor represent a significant majority of the general population.


* See:Gödel's incompleteness theorems, Unobservable



techstepgenr8tion
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25 Aug 2018, 9:35 pm

When a particular society's mainstream culture and route of conformity becomes toxic or acidic to character and integrity, anyone with a twinge of authentic concern about such things probably will break away and even if they have strong pressure to keep conforming such as a strongly rewarding set of incentives they'll still find as many ways as they can to rebel, first safely and then increasingly boldly to test the waters and see if they actually have any external space to be their best selves. I suggest that route is likely because if that particular lightbulb switches on in you inauthentic living is like having that pebble in your shoe or that sock with bad stitching 24/7/365, and eventually it wins. The alternative feels like being strapped in a high chair as an adult, forced to wear a bib, and be spoon-fed baby food.


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