US: Pelosi says House won't impeach Trump

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This is ridiculous what Pelosi said here:

https://www.newsweek.com/nancy-pelosi-d ... in-1205769

If you have strong evidence Trump committed a crime, you need to do the right thing and impeach him. To do otherwise is to set a very bad precedent that tells future Presidential contenders that they can commit as many crimes as they want and not have to worry about facing the consequences, provided they win. Like, do we want to live under such a corrupt system?

If the House refuses to impeach regardless of what evidence there is, then our government will become hopelessly corrupt. In my view, we'd might as well break up the country and have 50 independent countries in its place, because at least the state capitols would be closer to their peoples who'd demand accountability for criminal activity by their leaders.

And it's looking like, here, that Trump was indeed involved in illegal hush money payments, though of course, he's innocent until proven guilty:

A cogent argument in opposition to impeachment; President Mike Pence.

Trump's an incurious, semi-literate, know-nothing who hasn't an 8th grader's grasp of important issues, reacting exclusively from ignorance, greed, and hatred. While that's generally pretty consonant with the GOP, he's also utterly narcissistic, impulsive, vindictive and brutal, with no loyalty to anyone but himself. Everyone in Congress knows that if a collaboration goes well, Trump will claim all the credit while denigrating his collaborators. If things go badly, Trump would have them executed at the drop of a hat if it was within his power, but since it's not (yet), he'd do his utmost to destroy them by other means. There's no real up-side to working with him.
Pence, on the other hand, is better educated, arguably smarter, and vastly more skilled and experienced in collaborating with legislature. He's also American Taliban; a Dominionist who would like nothing better than to replace our constitutional republic with a biblically-based Christian theocracy and replace the Bill of Rights with the book of Leviticus. He demonstrably has the requisite skills (which Trump hasn't) to advance a political agenda, and a fundamentalist cabal (including the 'Freedom Caucus') which would happily play handmaiden.

One way or the other, America's f****d.

Possibly the best way to limit the damage might be to keep Trump in place, and hamstring the hell out of him precisely like the GOP did to Obama but for utterly different reasons. They did it largely because of their rage at having an uppity Negro in the 'White' House; we'd do it to save the republic.

First order of business should be appointing Mueller as independent counsel, and give him a very long leash.

This is correct and explains why impeachment must unfortunately be out of the equation. Once articles of impeachment are filed, the Senate convenes the trial which requires a 2/3 majority for conviction and then readily acquits Trump, it's game over. Whereas each successive investigation is likely to lead to the exposure of new crimes and more details about the previous ones.

The House has another option as well: censure. This was used to great good effect by the Senate against Joseph McCarthy. Censure doesn't have any particular consequence other than to say that "we disassociate ourselves from you", but it has a powerful political effect anyway. Once adopted, people can cite the censureship resolution against the target whenever the motormouth begins to run. Censure discredited and sidelined McCarthy, effectively ending his reign of terror. The House could also issue separate censureship resolutions against Trump for each of his many offenses, keeping Trump on the defensive every time the motormouth says or does something that's illegal, outrageous or both.

Following is the text of the McCarthy censureship resolution. Note the specifics of McCarthy's numerous lies that brought this about and how they correlate to Trump's behavior.

Impeachment doesn't mean Trump is removed.

By now, after hearing 10,000 negative stories about "teflon DON" Trump, does anyone care about 10,001th?

Democrats are the "Boy who cried Wolf" ....no once cares when they actually find a wrong doing.

While you might be perfectly happy being ruled by the most corrupt, mendacious, and Fascistic minority president in history, don't assume that everyone is.
Donald Trump is indisputably the worst president in American history

Um...correct me if I'm misinformed, but I didn't get the sense from reading the OP article that impeachment is completely off the table. I get the sense that Pelosi wants sufficient evidence of wrongdoing before tilting at that angle, rather than simply hitting the impeach button just because the Democrats are in control now. The orange goblin king could very well be impeached, but it makes sense for the Democrats to take their time with that, watch the idiot squirm for a while, and make that judgment after much consideration. Not only does that look more professional, but although the Democrats will be accused of a biased judgment by Donald's fanbase regardless, it will look so much better for them from a re-election standpoint if it doesn't look like a hasty decision. They're going to throw the gates wide open for the Mueller investigation at least, and will take note of any evidence that turns up.

It would be completely reasonable, if that's what she said. What she actually said is she would wait for approval from Republicans before taking any action, and that is unreasonable. If she has evidence he committed a crime she should move to impeach. If the Republicans in the Senate refuse to convict, then the Democrats can go back to the people with their evidence and say the Republicans are defending clearly criminal behavior.

Is that so? Hmmm...maybe we can hope she would take action if she had actual evidence of a crime. It doesn't sound like she believes there is ground to impeach Donald as it currently stands. If she hears of evidence of something most egregious, it is her responsibility to act accordingly. Perhaps she will consult the Republicans if it's a trivial matter worth a slap on the wrist, but here's hoping she will put her responsibility first if she hears of something along the lines of selling out the US to Russia. Only time will tell how things pan out. At least the Mueller investigation will continue, so it's unlikely she's completely closed-minded.

In case you haven't noticed our government is already hopelessly corrupt. We live in the kind of society where the rich take advantage of the poor all the time and they can get away with almost anything because of the fact that they are rich.

We really are f****d as a country now. But I think we pretty much brought it on ourselves. We'll just have to wait and see how bad things really get.

America is a strange debt culture

Presently, about 2.2 million student loan borrowers have $100,000+ of student loan debt @ like 6% interest
Mortgages are commonly 30 years long
Car loans are given at 96 month terms now ! !! (how long before see 108 month car loans)?

Either this collapses, and resets, or many young people are gonna be clawing their way up all their lives.

People are saying: DEBT SLAVERY IS THE NEW ECONOMY.

Who really deserves most of the blame? Donald Trump or the Trumpets who continue to vote for him and support all his BS?

I think just the fact that a good chunk of the American people either love his amorality and bigotry or deny that he's any of those things and are always defending him says more about us as a people than it does about him. It's our people who voted him into power. It's not like he's a monarch who inherited that right. I guess maybe a lot of Americans are greedy narcissistic as*holes too and that's why so many of them love the guy.

Pursuing impeachment would be electoral suicide for the Democrats

Donald Trump is not amoral. An axe is amoral. A gun is amoral. A wolf is amoral. Donald Trump has a sense of right and wrong. He could be argued to be immoral.

I disagree. Everyone who hates Donald will still vote how they were planning to, and the Democrats would probably get praised for that move. Also, it really depends on how they go about it. If they just impeach him now because they can, that won't look very professional, but if they do it after evidence of wrongdoing has been uncovered, they will have reasons behind their decision.

It does no good to be narrow-minded like Clinton and call voters "deplorable".

Reason to like Trump
-ACA mandate repealed (I had family members that hated throwing away their money away at this. Trump even indicated before the repeal that the IRS wouldn't enforce it, and before it was even legal, those family members stopped sending their money into to this). This was a poor people's tax, because poor people can't afford health insurance.

Of the 6.7 million households who chose to pay a penalty, 37 percent—2.5 million households—earned a salary less than $25,000 per year.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/majori ... dle-income

-Trump is surprisingly very pro-Christian religious groups. He invites them to the White House for meetings, and private dinners. He tried to evict trans people from the military. He says he's putting "one of them" on SCOTUS. He publicly says, "America is a Christian nation". He supports a "Muslim ban".

- Some Americans may see Democrats as supporting killing children (abortion), so that makes Trump look like an angel. I've personally met people like this.

"Exit polls in 2016 showed that about 80 percent of white evangelical Christians voted for Trump".
https://www.al.com/living/index.ssf/201 ... s_sup.html

-Business owners got corporate tax cuts and pass-through tax cuts. That's a lot of money.

-Coal plants/workers revitalized (ending Obama "dirty" coal restrictions)

-Steel & aluminum plants/workers revitalized with steel & aluminum tariffs.

-Nearly everyone got tax cuts until 2025 when the individual tax cuts revert. My household got about $45,000 out of it and maybe more if they extend it.

-Illegal immigration curtailed appeasing anti-illegal immigrant issue voters.

-Military/defense contractors benefited greatly with huge increases in defense spending.

-Stock markets up 25% since Trump took office, giving everyone a good feeling with their retirement accounts. Unemployment is at a 50 year low.

-There's a lot of people that vote "R" simply because they're partisan.

-Now maybe the biggest reason .. Trump base is the "white male working class". Trump is empowerment to these people. He's called a "blue jean billionaire". He gets it. He understands their problems. He is supposedly trying to stop the evil corporations , the evil Muslims, the evil illegal immigrations, the radical Democrats from harming them. He's going to Make America Great Again!

Last edited by LoveNotHate on 11 Nov 2018, 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.