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Arganger
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05 Nov 2018, 5:15 pm

People say stealing is wrong, but I want to know at what point stealing becomes more akin to rescuing.

Let's say a store sells betta fish.

As most know, stores are highly dishonest about what they actually need, they are over priced, and mistreated.
In this store, the betta fish never have water changed, most of them are ill, and as typical don't have near enough space for a fish that would in the wild have miles to itself. The poor dears are advertised as furniture. Heck maybe the insectivores are misadvertised as able to live off of a single plant, causing the buyers to slowly starve them to death in a much to small tank that is neither heated nor filtered.

Would it be wrong to steal them, and give them a far better environment without aiding the abusive sellers?

What about dogs?

What about going back in time and slaves?

What about a rooster that is forced to fight?

Is it okay to steal living things that are seen as property, when they are clearly being mistreated?


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Deemar
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05 Nov 2018, 5:45 pm

You're not fixing anything. Stealing fish from a store is not going to stop the store from abusing fish.



Arganger
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05 Nov 2018, 5:48 pm

Deemar wrote:
You're not fixing anything. Stealing fish from a store is not going to stop the store from abusing fish.


True, but it would help the fish without helping the store.


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techstepgenr8tion
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05 Nov 2018, 10:43 pm

Deemar wrote:
You're not fixing anything. Stealing fish from a store is not going to stop the store from abusing fish.

This, it's not practical and puts your future at too much risk legally. If it *really* bothers you try thinking of ways to fight animal cruelty that aren't politically deranged, or ways to maybe changes that would help shift incentives in the pet market as well as the meat industry. There are a lot of quite valid ethical problems to cite in these fields but not a lot of ways to change things aside from perhaps slightly harming someone who is either willingly or begrudgingly taking part in an economic machine too big for them to stop.


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kraftiekortie
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06 Nov 2018, 12:22 am

It’s petit larceny or petty theft—pure and simple.



naturalplastic
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06 Nov 2018, 5:26 am

you sound like a Peta terrorist.



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06 Nov 2018, 6:50 am

Arganger wrote:
People say stealing is wrong, but I want to know at what point stealing becomes more akin to rescuing.

Let's say a store sells betta fish.

As most know, stores are highly dishonest about what they actually need, they are over priced, and mistreated.
In this store, the betta fish never have water changed, most of them are ill, and as typical don't have near enough space for a fish that would in the wild have miles to itself. The poor dears are advertised as furniture. Heck maybe the insectivores are misadvertised as able to live off of a single plant, causing the buyers to slowly starve them to death in a much to small tank that is neither heated nor filtered.

Would it be wrong to steal them, and give them a far better environment without aiding the abusive sellers?

What about dogs?

What about going back in time and slaves?

What about a rooster that is forced to fight?

Is it okay to steal living things that are seen as property, when they are clearly being mistreated?



Steal a fish, and you help him for a day. Teach that fish how to steal fish, and you help him for a lifetime. 8)



Arganger
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06 Nov 2018, 9:35 am

naturalplastic wrote:
you sound like a Peta terrorist.


Even the slave part?
Now anyway, as of now I have no plans to do it, but the question is at what point stealing is rescuing.
Now we got this jackass to just give us her and she died in the night we got her, but I will use her as an example. A beautiful large short haired rabbit is shoved into a tiny cage, hasn't eaten in likely near a month, has patches of fur missing, and an untreated broken leg. Just because the owner broke up with his girl friend he had bought her for.
Would it be wrong to steal Lucy?


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kraftiekortie
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06 Nov 2018, 9:38 am

It would be better to call Animal Control, rather than taking it upon yourself to take the rabbit.



Lil_miss_lois
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06 Nov 2018, 9:40 am

I think stealing a living being because they're being abused is morally correct.

It would be morally wrong to knowingly allow a sentient being to suffer becuase they "belong " to someone .


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AngelRho
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06 Nov 2018, 4:33 pm

Pets are property. Owners should feel free to dispose of them how they wish.

I’m a former Betta owner. I trained mine how to jump out of the water and eat food off my finger. They have lots of personality and are fun to care for. They got sick as they got older and I learned how to treat them with antibiotics and other chemicals depending on the illness. They lasted a long time as far as bettas go.

Stealing them and setting them free will not help them. They are bred for their tales and color. They are not adaptable to the wild, so setting them free is as good as killing them.

A moral justification for stealing?

Well...that depends on a few things. First, we have to agree that stealing is wrong. Second, we have to agree that laws are unfair that necessitate a life of crime in order to keep the moral high ground. Third, do people in positions of authority commit theft themselves? If so, is theft actually a crime? Is taking back what is rightfully yours moral? Then go. Have fun.

I’d call Daneskjold Recovery Services, the experts in looter location.



Arganger
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06 Nov 2018, 5:40 pm

AngelRho wrote:
Stealing them and setting them free will not help them. They are bred for their tales and color. They are not adaptable to the wild, so setting them free is as good as killing them.


I never said to set them free, that would be stupid. Especially if you don't live in their natural environment and I certainly don't.


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AngelRho
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06 Nov 2018, 10:37 pm

Arganger wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Stealing them and setting them free will not help them. They are bred for their tales and color. They are not adaptable to the wild, so setting them free is as good as killing them.


I never said to set them free, that would be stupid. Especially if you don't live in their natural environment and I certainly don't.

Ok...understood. But if you steal them, then what?

It’s hard to feel bad for fish. I mean...yeah, when I had mine, I got attached to them and always wished I was better at caring for them. But if they’re not yours, who cares?

One of the big problems with bettas is they are so crazy easy to breed. Get a couple good breeding pairs, cull your brood, and you’ll have prize-winning bettas in no time. And if you don’t want them, just give them away to people you know like them and will care for them.

The people who piss me off the most are the ones who are completely clueless about what they get. A friend of mine once bought a hamster as a class pet for her 1st graders. She took great care of it. And after 2 and a half months, the thing went unresponsive. The poor guy had to “go away for a while.” Uh huh...go away in the garbage can. She didn’t know hamsters hibernate. People can do what they want with pets, but certain ones don’t desrve them.



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06 Nov 2018, 11:03 pm

It's ok to steal slaves. DO NOT buy slaves with the intention of freeing them because that will raise the price of slaves until they capture more slaves so they can sell them to you so you can free them. They may even recapture slaves you've already freed and then sell them to you over and over again.


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07 Nov 2018, 6:42 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
It's ok to steal slaves. DO NOT buy slaves with the intention of freeing them because that will raise the price of slaves until they capture more slaves so they can sell them to you so you can free them. They may even recapture slaves you've already freed and then sell them to you over and over again.


Finally someone is speaking the language of capital, property and markets.
While everyone else is speaking of morals.
Is it morally right? Yes.
Is our economy built on morality? No.
And that's actually partially good, because people have different morals.
There are human rights that prohibit ownership of slaves, these days, so that's considered a moral universal.
Animal rights are not universal (yet).
I for example consider most pet ownership animal cruelty. In my eyes, you're not saving those fish, but merely planning to be a nicer slaveowner.
I make exceptions for dogs, provided you have enough space, because they coevolved to the point that a human can substitute for a pack.
And cats, provided they can go outdoors - that makes you more of a cat caretaker, due to their nature.


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