Do you agree with abortion? Discuss

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You didn't respond to what I said, you merely reiterated what you had said. It seems your main "argument" is "she should of [mattered]", which isn't an argument, merely a reiteration of your belief.

I understand she is unhappy with what happened to her. I said that something shouldn't be banned just because it hurt this person; telling me that it hurt this person doesn't change that.

There is the opportunity to create, I would guess, at least a billion fetuses per year, all of whom would prefer to be alive. That doesn't give us any obligation to give them that option. The fact that one of them survived to confirm that they want to be alive doesn't change that. A lot of people would be happier if I did a lot of things I don't want to do; I feel no obligation to do those things. If somebody chooses to give that gift to a particular person then they are free to do so, but I see no reason to obligate people to do so, especially considering there are already so many people who are never even adopted, and there is a limit to how many people we can reasonably support.

In that case, if people don't matter at all, why keep it to fetuses? Why not just kill whoever and keep the population down?

Streeeeetchhinnnggggg a bit here. An unvaccinated human child, whether you are vaccinated or not, is technically a direct threat to your health and well-being ... do you kill on sight?



Hate to remind you, but this 2 year discussion all came out of your hypothetical "Should organ donation be mandatory?" question.

Women own their bodies. What they do with their own bodies is their choice alone. No man should be allowed to dictate any woman's reproductive choices. To do otherwise is to contempt toward women.

What do you mean? You mean only an all female judiciary could rightly decide to make abortion illegal? Or do you mean no one else, male or female, should be able to dictate to any particular woman? In which case why bring men into it at all?

Because I never said people don't matter. I'm sorry, but you seem unable to read what I'm saying, and instead are only capable of responding to the talking points you expect with the usual counter-points.

And, as a vaccinated individual, they are not much of a threat to my personal health and well-being.



And it's still not. You can't harvest a dead person's organs without their prior consent. In your view, I would have fewer rights than a corpse in how my organs should be used.

Also, I'm not interested in discussing what would happen if the aliens landed, or if Skynet took over.

Also, there are many men who are pro-abortion.

I don’t consider myself pro- or anti-abortion in the political sense, my only view is “it’s been settled”, and I don’t think it will change, even with Kavanaugh on the Supreme Court. If it was going to be overturned, it would have been done about 30 years ago.

Around and around in circles we go, we've dealt with this before. I think, XFilesGeek, you don't care about the morality of abortion. You do not want to be pregnant, ever. I believe even if I could convince you that it is wrong, you'd be in favour of legal abortion anyway, morality and logic be damned. This is an acceptable position that ends all arguments, if you just own up to it.

Put Your Facts Where Your Concerns Over Logic And Morality Lie.

"Unsafe abortion: the preventable pandemic*
David A Grimes, Janie Benson, Susheela Singh, Mariana Romero, Bela Ganatra, Friday E Okonofua, Iqbal H Shah
Ending the silent pandemic of unsafe abortion is an urgent public-health and human-rights imperative. As with other more visible global-health issues, this scourge threatens women throughout the developing world. Every year, about 19–20 million abortions are done by individuals without the requisite skills, or in environments below minimum medical standards, or both. Nearly all unsafe abortions (97%) are in developing countries. An estimated 68 000 women die as a result, and millions more have complications, many permanent. Important causes of death include haemorrhage, infection, and poisoning. Legalisation of abortion on request is a necessary but insufficient step toward improving women’s health; in some countries, such as India, where abortion has been legal for decades, access to competent care remains restricted because of other barriers. Access to safe abortion improves women’s health, and vice versa, as documented in Romania during the regime of President Nicolae Ceausescu. The availability of modern contraception can reduce but never eliminate the need for abortion. Direct costs of treating abortion complications burden impoverished health care systems, and indirect costs also drain struggling economies. The development of manual vacuum aspiration to empty the uterus, and the use of misoprostol, an oxytocic agent, have improved the care of women. Access to safe, legal abortion is a fundamental right of women, irrespective of where they live. The underlying causes of morbidity and mortality from unsafe abortion today are not blood loss and infection but, rather, apathy and disdain toward women."

Panel 1: Key messages
1. An estimated 19–20 million unsafe abortions take place every year, 97% of these are in developing countries.
2. Despite its frequency, unsafe abortion remains one of the most neglected global public health challenges.
3. An estimated 68 000 women die every year from unsafe abortion, and millions more are injured, many permanently.
4. Leading causes of death are haemorrhage, infection, and poisoning from substances used to induce abortion.
5. Access to modern contraception can reduce but never eliminate the need for abortion.
6. Legalisation of abortion is a necessary but insufficient step toward eliminating unsafe abortion.
7. When abortion is made legal, safe, and easily accessible, women’s health rapidly improves. By contrast, women’s health deteriorates when access to safe abortion is made more difficult or illegal.
8. Legal abortion in developed countries is one of the safest procedures in contemporary practice, with case-fatality rates less than one death per 100 000 procedures.
9. Manual vacuum aspiration (a handheld syringe as a suction source) and medical methods of inducing abortion have reduced complications.
10. Treating complications of unsafe abortion overwhelms impoverished health-care services and diverts limited resources from other critical health-care programmes.
11. The underlying causes of this global pandemic are apathy and disdain for women; they suffer and die because they are not valued.

https://www.who.int/reproductivehealth/ ... ortion.pdf

Considering modern america and society, chances are illegal abortions would be preformed by a doctor. As they all ready are when they happen outside of the legal bounds. Regardless, taking another terrible thing as an example, rape would still be wrong even if you had people doing it in a sterile environment, made them use protection, and made it legal.

Just as with abortions, even though it is illegal, it does still happen. But laws don't exist to make things never happen at all, it is to keep those who value the law from doing terrible things, and to hold those accountable who don't care. To clarify, I personally think the heaviest burden should be on the abortionist.

Hmm. A post from ahogday that doesn't look like someone vomited scrabble pieces on to the page. It must be a full moon.

The "pandemic" of unsafe abortion offers no insight on the morality of abortion itself and, although almost no one gets this for some reason - it's not any kind of sane argument for making abortion legal. It's a bit like when you hear about burglars getting killed or injured in the course of their profession and some twit from the WHO creates a white paper suggesting we legalise theft, to improve the health of burglars and their accomplices.

And did Gianna Jessen not matter? And Melissa Ohden? They are women, but abortion almost took away their lives AND value. Millions of others did not survive as they did, more than half of which were women, of whom abortion did not value, nor give value, but took it all away.

Some Twits are Educated.
And some are not.

Was that a sly personal attack? It certainly wasn't an attempt to refute the point because you know I'm right.

Actually; that is not Correct;

Ever Since 1973 and Roe Vs Wade, Abortions Have Decreased over what they were before.

Today in the News Mr. Trump and His Cohorts who continue to Feed Ignorance
wish to Prevent Some Insurance From Covering Effective Contraceptives.

To be Clear, as a Person With a Wife whose Only Child at 51 Days Died in my Arms
at a Hospital For Children; An Abortion is the Furthest Thing I could Imagine Being
a Part of in my Life as is.

But on the Other Hand, Before i experienced the Literal Torture of Type Two Trigeminal
Neuralgia From Wake to Sleep For 66 Months; I had No idea such a Pain Existed in My Reality
Before then; A Pain So Severe that it is assessed Literally Worse than the Torture of Crucifixion;
A Pain in my Case Like A Dentist Drill in my Right Eye and Ear that No Drug Would Touch;
A Pain Also Informally Titled by the Medical Profession as the Suicide Disease.

In other Words my Friend, i am well aware of Misery and Suffering in this Life.

And in other Words, I don't wanna see additional Misery and Suffering like the Ignorance Where
I live; where a Young Woman was too afraid to Face Her Parents with a Pregnancy Because she then
Failed to Fulfill the Religious Demand of Abstinence; So, she Hid Her Pregnancy From Her Parents; Did
not Get the Pre-Natal Care She Deserved as a Human Being for the Fear of the Ignorance of Her Religion;
And the ultimate Destination of that Child was in the Woods And Dead For That is where She Birthed the Child
Dead as the Family Dog Brought some of the Body Parts Back to the Home. There is Morality and there is Ethics
and
Reality.
And Education that
Lifts the Veils of Ignorance
Also known as 'Apocalpyse';
the Original Greek Definition of
Apocalypse and not the Ignorance of Destroying Even More Life.