Japan managed to win its war on drugs. Why can't we?

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VegetableMan
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11 Feb 2019, 1:22 pm

Aspiegaming wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
Yes, the Japanese have an admirable attitude towards drugs, as towards almost everything else. The reason cannabis is so effectively controlled over there and not over here is that

1. Since the sixties, any claim as to the existence of a socially binding moral code has been debunked as "oppressive" - or some such tripe.
2. Governments in the west, being controlled by big business, don't want to crack down on drugs - particularly cannabis - because there's so much money to be made out of them.

I completely agree that possession of any amount of cannabis should result in criminal charges.

Oh quit following the footsteps of grumpy Nixon. Weed's been used by humans long before alcohol was invented and humans then had no problem with it. The only reason it got banned was because of racism and anti-hippy...-ism. The only reason it's still banned is because conservatives refuse to let go.



Actually, the primary reason marijuana got banned in the U.S. is because powerful lobbies wanted to stop the production of industrial hemp, a plant that had many uses that cut into the profits of industries like lumber and cotton. Newspaper publisher and businessman William Randolph Hearst was a major player in that campaign. They did create a lot of racist propaganda, showing crazed black and Mexicans on pot doing criminal and unspeakable things.


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11 Feb 2019, 6:13 pm

magz wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
I completely agree that possession of any amount of cannabis should result in criminal charges.

I completely disagree.
Let's learn from American Prohibition. Illegal but socially accepted activities are the best for mafia.

That’s why gun control doesn’t and can’t work either



techstepgenr8tion
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11 Feb 2019, 11:06 pm

It helps to have a small island nation that's predominantly one race and where even the Koreans who've been there for over 200 years are held as outsiders.

If you really want to see that happen in the US or UK though my advice - support your local white identitarians.


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shlaifu
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12 Feb 2019, 1:09 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
It helps to have a small island nation that's predominantly one race and where even the Koreans who've been there for over 200 years are held as outsiders.

If you really want to see that happen in the US or UK though my advice - support your local white identitarians.


true - the Nazis outlawed everything and drug use fell rapidly, until they introduced methamphetamine to increase production and keep soldiers awake. The Soviets, too, outlawed everything but use didn't decrease, and the punishments got more sever over time, as the politicians watched the failing of their policies.

Which goes to show that the remedy to drug use is not harsh punishment, but ethno-nationalist society. .... except... Poland is, due to it's complicated language, very white, and very polish, and also quite far right. But they are struggling with their drug problems.

so, neither punishment nor ethno-nationalism work...

Japan does however have a very narrow range of socially acceptable behaviour - it's not exactly an individualist society. There's little to no feminism, there are strong social hierarchies, and there is a strong sense of national unity.
maybe we need to give up teaching people that there are many ways to happiness, and drop the whole "pursuit of happiness"... Japan used to have quite a high suicide rate, though, all without drug-addiction issues.


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magz
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12 Feb 2019, 1:44 pm

Some interesting maps and charts:
https://ourworldindata.org/substance-use


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12 Feb 2019, 2:04 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Actually, the primary reason marijuana got banned in the U.S. is because powerful lobbies wanted to stop the production of industrial hemp, a plant that had many uses that cut into the profits of industries like lumber and cotton. Newspaper publisher and businessman William Randolph Hearst was a major player in that campaign. They did create a lot of racist propaganda, showing crazed black and Mexicans on pot doing criminal and unspeakable things.


I second that! It had nothing to do with marijuana, it had everything to do with hemp. They also made crap up about marijuana, saying it has 'no medical use' even though at had been used for medical use for an incredibly long time. I'm a chronic pain patient, I used marijuana to keep my joints from swelling, it helped my depression and calmed me down after stressful events, like having to go to work and be around people. Eventually my pain level increased and I had to stop smoking so I could get Tramadol, an opioid. My depression and anxiety got worse because I couldn't smoke to relax, my joint pain got much worse, it was actually less painful to smoke marijuana than to take muscle relaxers, anti-inflammatories and 120 tramadol a month.

By the way, the opioid crisis in the US is fentanyl, illegally imported from Mexico and China, sold as heroin, then CDC counts the deaths as 'prescription opioid overdoses'. to rage war against chronic pain patients. The DEA is aware of this yet targets doctors rather than 'drug dealers'. CDC also counts any death with opioids in their system as an prescription overdose, even when multiple drugs are present. The facts are, less than 2% of chronic pain patients become addicted to painkillers, less than 10% of people with prior drug abuse problems become addicted to painkillers, yet our country is targeting; cancer patients, vets, and many others with chronic pain syndromes or disorders. Jeff Sessions answer for them, "Take an aspirin and deal with it!".

It actually works out better for big pharmaceutical companies, they produce less opiods and charge a lot more for them. In cases, a prescription that may take pennies to produce can cost the patient up to $2000. Since this issue targets me I decided to look into it. Do a google search for "War on chronic pain patients"



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12 Feb 2019, 4:29 pm

shlaifu wrote:
Japan does however have a very narrow range of socially acceptable behaviour - it's not exactly an individualist society. There's little to no feminism, there are strong social hierarchies, and there is a strong sense of national unity.
maybe we need to give up teaching people that there are many ways to happiness, and drop the whole "pursuit of happiness"... Japan used to have quite a high suicide rate, though, all without drug-addiction issues.

I think part of the undertone I'm seeing in this thread is something along the lines of a desire or craving, perhaps not clearly stated but resident in the background, to put moral conformity and honoring of taboos front and center again. It would be strange, not surprising for me at least but likely for a lot of people if the science keeps coming out to say that marijuana is safer than alcohol and people say "So? We just don't like the kinds of people who do these sorts of things and we don't want them around - they don't fit in and they don't belong around us". Sometimes I think there's a revulsion people have along the lines of 'I get on just fine without that - therefore your beneath me if you need it', none of that really surprises me either considering what human beings and our agendas tend to be - ie. stepping on heads to get ahead and cleaning up the mess with a dust pan and depositing it in prison.

To be slightly more fair I get that enough people, especially living in poor areas, have a lot of bad anecdotal experience with people who are under the influence. When something leaves that strong of a print it's tough to argue how much difference there is between a broken and abused wreck that's sober, a broken and abused wreck that's drunk, and a broken and abused wreck that's stoned. Human nature seems to prefer finding the simplest explanation and it seems like marijuana is a ready go-to for saying 'Ah - that's how they got this way'. When under the sway of strong anecdote you know what you've experienced, you know what you feel, and that's all you need.

I think if we want to learn from Japan about drug use we'd have to see whether they're doing something better at preventing drug use as a side effect. If it's really just jack-booted conformity I'm not sure any aspie or autie in their right mind would want that. If they've got some degree of better psychological support for those who don't fit in in their communities - that might be more worth examining.


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12 Feb 2019, 6:59 pm

Why would we want to win a war on drugs?

I don't smoke. I rarely drink. But the evidence shows that cannabis is significantly safer than alcohol (I'm very tickled by the suggestion that alcohol isn't associated with mental illness). I'm also basically of the opinion that people should be allowed to do what they want, as long as they don't harm others. I think legalising drugs would present potential health benefits, as well as creating a new tax base (also very tickled by the idea that drug laws currently aren't enforced because illegal drugs generate lots of tax revenue?!).



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12 Feb 2019, 7:11 pm

Cannabis is a disaster drug, linked with mental illness and terrorism. We have two hideous drugs in our societies already, launching a third world be reckless. Government's get more than enough tax, and they just spend trillions on wars and bailing out banks anyway. The only argument for legalizing drugs is stopping the intelligence agencies from using drugs to fund undercover ops. People doing drugs definitely hurts others, like the terrorism we've seen by drug users and it hurts their family members and puts a strain on healthcare systems. Good on Japan.


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12 Feb 2019, 7:19 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Cannabis is a disaster drug, linked with mental illness and terrorism. We have two hideous drugs in our societies already, launching a third world be reckless. Government's get more than enough tax, and they just spend trillions on wars and bailing out banks anyway. The only argument for legalizing drugs is stopping the intelligence agencies from using drugs to fund undercover ops. People doing drugs definitely hurts others, like the terrorism we've seen by drug users and it hurts their family members and puts a strain on healthcare systems. Good on Japan.


I say the problem is making drugs illegal. It should be a persons right to put whatever they desire in their body. If there weren't a war on drugs drug use would decrease, I believe this has already been proved. They turn it into a taboo and give criminals something to make money off of. A lot of people who smoke pot seem to do just fine, Joe Rogan as one example.



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12 Feb 2019, 7:22 pm

Why can't everyone think like me?


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12 Feb 2019, 10:29 pm

sly279 wrote:
magz wrote:
Prometheus18 wrote:
I completely agree that possession of any amount of cannabis should result in criminal charges.

I completely disagree.
Let's learn from American Prohibition. Illegal but socially accepted activities are the best for mafia.

That’s why gun control doesn’t and can’t work either

We have alcohol regulation and gun regulation, not gun prohibition. There's a difference.



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12 Feb 2019, 10:32 pm

JohnPowell wrote:
Cannabis is a disaster drug, linked with mental illness and terrorism. We have two hideous drugs in our societies already, launching a third world be reckless. Government's get more than enough tax, and they just spend trillions on wars and bailing out banks anyway. The only argument for legalizing drugs is stopping the intelligence agencies from using drugs to fund undercover ops. People doing drugs definitely hurts others, like the terrorism we've seen by drug users and it hurts their family members and puts a strain on healthcare systems. Good on Japan.

Japan has cultural differences, and cannabis is relatively benign, certainly far less harmful then alcohol. Your bullshit propaganda is pretty weak.



magz
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13 Feb 2019, 2:50 am

The_Walrus wrote:
Why would we want to win a war on drugs?

I don't smoke. I rarely drink. But the evidence shows that cannabis is significantly safer than alcohol (I'm very tickled by the suggestion that alcohol isn't associated with mental illness). I'm also basically of the opinion that people should be allowed to do what they want, as long as they don't harm others. I think legalising drugs would present potential health benefits, as well as creating a new tax base (also very tickled by the idea that drug laws currently aren't enforced because illegal drugs generate lots of tax revenue?!).

+1


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13 Feb 2019, 3:35 am

The_Walrus wrote:
Why would we want to win a war on drugs?

I don't smoke. I rarely drink. But the evidence shows that cannabis is significantly safer than alcohol (I'm very tickled by the suggestion that alcohol isn't associated with mental illness). I'm also basically of the opinion that people should be allowed to do what they want, as long as they don't harm others. I think legalising drugs would present potential health benefits, as well as creating a new tax base (also very tickled by the idea that drug laws currently aren't enforced because illegal drugs generate lots of tax revenue?!).


good post