Shaping the Future: Indoctrinating Youth

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yes, that's a good plan on how to do that, if one wanted to do that.
what are you getting at?

That's how it works. And that's why the radical Left, for more than 50 years, has been so intent on controlling the education system.

and somehow, those little buggers still aren't class conscious.
In the last 40 years, economies have been globalized and neoliberalized. Today, labour share of GDP is at an all time low, and capital share is at an all time high. The richest man on earth makes 250 million dollars a day and doesn't pay taxes.
Those lefties are really bad at indoctrination, might I add.

Bingo!! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !! !

Impressive conceptual "parallelism" spot...

That was what I was getting at, shlaifu...

So you don't believe academia has been overrun by those embracing left wing ideology?

I am not interested in a debate nor an argument...
Rather, I wish to engage in a discussion...

I don't think there's many lefties outside the arts and humnities - certainly there are very few in economics and engineering.
I'm also wondering if there isn't a good reason as to why there are lefties in arts and humanities, and I guess it's got to do with how these fields work - they are different from stem fields or economics and engineering, in that stem and engineering are, for the majority of students, about making working things, on the foundation of natural laws.
In arts and humanities, after ww1, people realized that the laws they assumed to be as solid as natural laws, actually were not solid at all, and further, that the tools they were using (how questions were phrased, language itself) was actually part of whatever they observed. Which plunged the humanities into a crisis in the 60s - and they are in crisis again, now, as it turns out that a lot of their models are based on experiments that can't be repeated, or were done poorly in the 70s, etc.
What I'm trying to say is: the humanities have been for a while busy with questioning their own methods and have the serious problem that it seems there really is no unbiased way of observing things - that all interpretation of data is dependent. The humanities therefore reward criticism of frameworks - however, there is not really a physical reality to test things against.
Even biology has by now realized, with things like epigenetics and neuroendocrinology, as well as neuronal plasticity, that nature-nurture can't be divided. - and the humanities are struggling with that, too.

yet, when humanities scholars went out to look at stem fields and economics, they found those fields are also quite unaware of how their methods and paradigms help produce certain results. - that's what science and technology studies is doing.

and economics is a very strange field: it's quite obviously a belief-system, but it's very hard to run experiments here, so people stick to the paradigm, contrary to what the data says.

so here's my question: if you happen to be a leftie, interested in society, how to understand it and work with it etc. - what would you choose to study?
and if you're conservative, want something solid to work with, that gives you some reputation and a good income?

I'm not thinking there is evil intent, but just like doctors found that smoking causes cancer, and fought to establish this as common knowledge, the social sciences try to establish their findings as common knowledge.
call it indoctrination if you will.
but some people call global warming education "indoctrination" - which only goes to show that whether or not something is actually right is, the person not believing it considers it "indoctrination".
It's up to you to decide what you can be bothered to read for yourself to be able to have an opinion on.

I recently read the wikipedia article on the biology of sexual differentiation - tunrs out, there has been a lot of research since I went to school, and most of what I thought I knew about it was actually pretty far off...

Here's a timely report. The original source is linked in the article.

Commentary: Politicized Schools Are Radically Transforming Our Nation

If somebody wanted to fundamentally transform society to its roots, where would he or she start?

The most logical starting point would be education. And if there were one part of the educational system that would produce this transformation most broadly, effectively, and efficiently, it would most likely be at our schools of education that train teachers for the K-12 classroom. That’s where ideas from the rest of academia are inserted into the curriculum for elementary and high school students, and where politically unsophisticated young people are turned into classroom teachers. Control the schools of education, and the education system will eventually be yours to forward your political agenda.

Remarkably, that is just what has happened in this country. Over 100 years ago, when our education schools were just starting up or growing from two-year normal schools to university status, Progressive educators set out to transform the nation into one that was based on social science theories, collectivism, and central planning.

How successful were they? Several years ago, I started an investigation into how politicized education schools have become. Today, the Martin Center is releasing the results of that investigation in a new report, titled “The Politicization of University Schools of Education.”

The report’s main conclusion? That schools of education may very well be radicalized beyond anything imagined by the early Progressives.

http://tennesseestar.com/2019/02/21/com ... education/

In addition:

Am I the only one here who sees practices such as this highly unethical and a usurpation of parental responsibilities?
How is it possible that indoctrination in schools in any form, without parental sanction, is not a form of unsolicited mind rape and a criminal offense?
When have schools post WWII in civilised societies become a legitimate venue for political propaganda?
How is this disrespect, arrogance and presumption not another form of criminal left wing fascism?

If I had the inclination I would be outraged...
Almost there, but I will let other rational people, who have children or intend to have children, be outraged for me instead...
After all: I have no skin (pun intended) in the game...
Damn it is good not to have committed myself to this absurdity called life...

Transcendent entity bids you adieu...

Very true! Look at how the radical leftists have taken control of the Texas Board of Education! The radical leftists even want to tell students the ridiculous lie that Moses was one of the founding fathers!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/ans ... 818c85ef22

to quote from the text:
"So, who are these authors and what ideas are they promoting?

First of all, they are not fringe players, but key members of the education establishment. Most of them have held prestigious positions in the world of education. "

may I rephrase that: the authors are considered authorities in their field (key members), and hold prestigious positions.

the article is assuming, because these authors hold left-wing views, that they are wrong.

have you considered that the authorities in question are actually right in their assessments, or at least, as right as they can be, for now, based on their research?
I mean: it's impossible to be free of bias/"worldview", so ... whose biases/"worldviews" would you want to teach? your own? or the ones of the authorities in their respective fields?

in the words of german philosopher peter sloterdijk, about the creation of universities in antiquity: ever since there were teachers, children have been strangers to their parents. (sloterdijk is considered conservative, but he acknowledges that since the beginning of modernity, worldviews are constantly changing, estranging generations from another)

and finally: the article itself mentions that young people's less negative views of socialism may actually not be a product of "indoctrination", that correllation is not causation. let me introduce a rival theory to the one proposed in the article: American infrastructure is falling apart, and individualism is not able to solve any of the big problems if the 21st century, like environmental collapse, the new threat of nuclear war, and the increasing gini coefficient.
American youth is looking to northern Europe, and they say: we want a wellfare state like that. Their parents say: that's socialism. The kids answer: oh, that's what it's called?-then I'm a socialist, now.

I think if there was a distinction between social democracy (what Europe is doing), socialism and communism, the american discourse would be less shouty and a bit more intelligent.
But the right wingers call everything socialism, so ... hell, by american conservative standards, I live in a socialist country then. Let me tell you: it's quite good. There are few homeless people, public transport is in good condition, my medical bills are fully covered by my insurance. And I wouldn't even know where to find a part of town where it's dangerous to walk alone at night.
And I understand that that's what I pay taxes for.

you are aware that this is a severely leftist song, by a severly leftist band, sprung frm a severly leftist cultural moment, right?

I find the discussion interesting and informative...
Please continue...

However...
Please re-read the subject line: Shaping the Future: Indoctrinating Youth...
The implied context of this thread is one of unsolicited political interference in schools and in particular, venues involving impressionable minds...

I have never been comfortable with the idea of political indoctrination via public servants whose professional directive is to objectively educate rather than to directly influence children into adopting a political agenda...
I also have a major problem with political interlopers who are not part of the education system preying on naive minds...
Why either of these instances aren't considered a criminal activity is bemusing to me...

And yes, I still adhere to the premise that there is a heavy left wing influence in the education system...

But there's no such thing as "objectivity" in the the social sciences - that's something the social sciences figured out in the 60s. so .... you're demnading something that, for the last 60 years, has been considered impossible.