Trumps accomplishments

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Do you want a serious answer to that?

Fixing the american healthcare system is not trivial both in the real world how do we fix this, and in the political world how do we get ANY changes passed. I won't go into the real world issues at play as that deserves a 3 page essay, but the political difficulties should be self-evident. In politics healthcare reform is the touch of death, with Obama being the only recent president to get it through with a party super majority and it costing him very very dearly at the ballot box over the subsequent 7 years.

An individual mandate chafes at a lot of people, because literally it forces them to pay for something they may or may not want. This may surprise you, but some young people who are pretty healthy do NOT want to pay for health insurance. This is distinct from car insurance, because while every person has the choice of whether or not to buy a car, no one has the choice of whether or not to be alive (at least according to our government).

Prior to the ACA, the government had a healthcare mechanism for people below the poverty line called Medicaid. Instead of "fixing that" for the millions of uninsured people who "couldn't afford" healthcare, Obama created a sweeping reform that even advocates for it will call a mixed bag.

Yeah it's so popular they've had to force people to sign up for ACA shotgun wedding style.

Back on topic:

He has secured the release of 19 people, including 16 Americans, from foreign captivity.

He delivered for the "forgotten Americans." The Trump boom is benefiting those left behind by the Obama economy.

He worked with Democrats and Republicans to pass important legislation.

He has ushered in a golden age for women in the CIA.

His push to expand domestic energy production bore fruit. The United States passed both Saudi Arabia and Russia as the world's top oil producer.

He's continued his tough line with Moscow.

He pulled out of Obama's disastrous Iran deal and reimposed crippling sanctions on Tehran.

He pulled US troops out of Syria.

It was the law making it mandatory that was eliminated. Trump now wants to get rid of the ACA entirely now, which will be devastating to millions.

To say that millions only signed up with Obamacare because they had to is a complete right wing lie . People who never had health insurance before more than welcomed the chance to have it.
Believe me, I sympathize with those people who would have preferred to keep their private insurance but couldn't. I don't hear anyone on the right sympathizing with ACA supporters who would be left without medical if Trump gets his way.

Trump is a liar. Neither he nor the congressional Republicans have any plan for health care. The Republicans have admitted that, themselves.

"The forgotten man" of Obama's years of prosperity just didn't lose out when Obama was elected. They had been forgotten for decades prior to that, beginning with Ronald Reagan's crushing of organized labor, and the roll back of labor laws in favor of wealthy corporations. The notion of the rising capitalist tide raising all boats is a lie, as that tide had done nothing but to drown everyone not in a yacht.
Trump's tough line with Moscow is hardly more than anything but a show, as Trump has continually sided with Putin regarding the Russian strongman interfering with our last Presidential election.
The treaty with Iran was preventing that country from developing nuclear weapons. Now they're free to start again.

It is not a lie that signing up for obamacare was a mandatory punishable law. Millions signed up for it because they HAD to, not because they wanted to. They were given an ultimatum. That hardcore fact.

Are you seriously trying to convince me that nobody supported Obamacare?!?! Because I can tell you, the millions who had been denied medical coverage due to poverty or preexisting conditions, certainly welcomed it with open arms. Just because the right doesn't ever take these people into consideration doesn't mean that their opinions don't count, or that their lives aren't of as much worth.

You said, "to say that millions only signed up with Obamacare because they had to is a complete right wing lie"

I pointed why it is not a lie. Of course they had to because it was a mandatory punishable law.

So far all that's been done is to finally do away with punishing millions of poor people $650 to $2300 fines per year.

What you're coming up with is the usual left-wing media doomsday prediction.

Are you trying to convince me that millions of people weren't barred from health coverage due to preexisting condition and poverty? Because yes, there were millions of such people, and they all jumped at the chance for Obamacare to take care of them. My idiot representative, Cathy McMorris-Rodgers, wanted people in my part of Washington state to send her their "Obamacare horror stories." What she got was not a single complaint, but praise for a President who finally cared for the down and out by giving them medical coverage. So yes, to say that Obamacare was forced on the American people, with absolutely no popular support for it, is a right wing lie.

Pre-existing conditions: Yes
Poverty: Technically No (medicaid is health care for the impoverished)

Both you and Ezra are correct to an extent. There are people who got health care under ACA because it was very difficult for them to get it beforehand. There are also people who did not want to purchase health care that were now compelled to do so by law. There are also many many people whose premiums went up under the law.

Also let's not pretend that a law that required a midnight role-call vote with a partisan super majority to pass had overwhelming popular support. There were a number of people in favor of it, but also a great many against it.

Then why did Obama apologize for it?

And how can a punishable mandate not equal compulsory participation for many?

Sure there were millions who wanted it, especially all those who got it subsidized. But that doesn't change the fact that making it mandatory punishable with huge fines was wrong.

Now finally after years, when poor people file their 2019 taxes in 2020, they won't get hit with a huge fine because they couldn't afford non-subsidized obamacare premiums.

Really poor people already get medicare and free healthcare. One of our homeless members has had tons of free healthcare and weeks worth of free hospital stays.

Last edited by EzraS on 13 Apr 2019, 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

"Speaking at a Democratic rally in Flint, Michigan, the former president ripped into the Affordable Care Act (ACA) for flooding the health care insurance market and causing premiums to rise for middle-class Americans who do not qualify for subsidies.Speaking at a Democratic rally in Flint, Michigan, the former president ripped into the Affordable Care Act (ACA) for flooding the health care insurance market and causing premiums to rise for middle-class Americans who do not qualify for subsidies".

"So you've got this crazy system where all of a sudden 25 million more people have health care and then the people who are out there busting it, sometimes 60 hours a week, wind up with their premiums doubled and their coverage cut in half. It's the craziest thing in the world," Clinton said.
https://www.cnn.com/2016/10/04/politics ... index.html

Obama apologized that there were unforeseen consequences to what was essentially a Republican plan.
The mandatory punishments were aspects of the Republican plan. The idea behind it was to finance the ACA.
Poor people generally don't have to file taxes.
Really poor people got medicare. Plenty who of Americans who weren't poor enough didn't get any such coverage till the ACA. And I'll remind you, the GOP always wanted to cut Medicare coverage for the extreme poor, and punish "those lazy leaches."