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Pepe
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25 Mar 2019, 6:05 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't believe there is such thing as "self-actualization." I believe we can come close, though.



Agreed...


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Down with big business!...
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


Pepe
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25 Mar 2019, 6:22 pm

Fnord wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Life is what you make it.
People who believe in self-actualization, taking the initiative, and relying on personal merit rather than "luck" tend to believe this.

I'm still waiting for someone whom I knew before they died to walk up to me in their newly-incarnated human identity and tell me something that only the two of us would know. Then I will believe wholeheartedly in reincarnation.

Until then, to me it is just a barely-testable hypothesis at best.


<serious mode on>

I believe in synthetic "telepathy" using psychotronics...
Previous "lives" could simply be the implantation of "memories" through remote hypnotic influencing...<shrug>

Yes I know, wacky stuff... :mrgreen:


_________________
I'm a thinker. Some think I'm a stinker. Pepe le Pew. ;)
Down with big business!...
I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


techstepgenr8tion
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25 Mar 2019, 9:43 pm

Fnord wrote:
I'm still waiting for someone whom I knew before they died to walk up to me in their newly-incarnated human identity and tell me something that only the two of us would know. Then I will believe wholeheartedly in reincarnation.

You're setting the bar way too low. Buddha should have to come visit you in your bedroom.


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Claradoon
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26 Mar 2019, 6:47 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
I don't believe there is such thing as "self-actualization." I believe we can come close, though.

I believe in personal initiative, and "relying on merit"---but, all too often, I'm too lazy to take the initiative, or to do something meritorious.

I firmly believe that life is "what you make it."


"self-actualization" - Worth trying, though somewhat vague. Does resuming stimming on retirement count?

"relying on merit" - Not if you're swimming with sharks i.e. employed. Been there, done that.

"Life is what you make it." - Life is what you make it as you play the cards you are dealt.



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26 Mar 2019, 6:49 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I'm still waiting for someone whom I knew before they died to walk up to me in their newly-incarnated human identity and tell me something that only the two of us would know. Then I will believe wholeheartedly in reincarnation.

You're setting the bar way too low. Buddha should have to come visit you in your bedroom.

If you see the Buddha coming down the road, kill him.



Fnord
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26 Mar 2019, 8:57 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Fnord wrote:
I'm still waiting for someone whom I knew before they died to walk up to me in their newly-incarnated human identity and tell me something that only the two of us would know. Then I will believe wholeheartedly in reincarnation.
You're setting the bar way too low. Buddha should have to come visit you in your bedroom.
Buddha who? Never met him/her/it/they/whatever.



kraftiekortie
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26 Mar 2019, 10:47 am

The Buddha was some high-falutin' personage who decided to "screw all that" and live in the forest for a while.

While living in the forest, he came up with certain things.

After he came out of the forest, he wanted to convey what he learned to others. Other people listened. His ideas spread.

Rather like folks like Jesus and Mohammed (not precisely---but there are similarities).



TW1ZTY
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26 Mar 2019, 10:56 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
The Buddha was some high-falutin' personage who decided to "screw all that" and live in the forest for a while.

While living in the forest, he came up with certain things.

After he came out of the forest, he wanted to convey what he learned to others. Other people listened. His ideas spread.

Rather like folks like Jesus and Mohammed (not precisely---but there are similarities).


I once pointed out the similarities between Buddha and Jesus in high school and got a lot of angry backlash. :lol:



kraftiekortie
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26 Mar 2019, 11:06 am

It’s because of their belief in Jesus as being a “superior being” whom nobody could match.

You’re out of high school—-thank goodness!



TW1ZTY
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26 Mar 2019, 11:13 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
It’s because of their belief in Jesus as being a “superior being” whom nobody could match.

You’re out of high school—-thank goodness!

I know right? War is just Hell, but High School is High School. :lol:



Hsingai
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26 Mar 2019, 3:46 pm

Pepe wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Life is what you make it.


Tell that to the victims of atrocities... 8O

I prefer the wording "Pain is inevitable, Suffering is optional."


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Hsingai
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26 Mar 2019, 3:50 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
That's great, I just don't believe that my vocabulary is the conversation stopper. I'm pretty sure I could say it in 3rd or 4th grade vocabulary and it wouldn't help much, it's much more likely the foreignness of the ideas themselves.

It would just made you sound like you where insulting their intelligence.
https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/HLqWn5L ... -distances


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Hsingai
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26 Mar 2019, 4:44 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
similarly I'm not a reductive materialist and I have had enough 'supernatural' experience that - for my own life -
If I wasn't schizophrenic I would probably believe in the Supernatural too. But I believe in providence instead. For example When I moves to texas I couldn't find my favorite shirt so was sure that I lost it. 5 years and I never see it again. I move to MS and one day my favorite shirt is at the top of my laundry. Maybe it has just hiding all this time, maybe my mother found another one just like at the thrift store and bought it for me, maybe I wake up in a different but similar reality each day. I don't know, but I am confident that it didn't involve reality being changed in someway not allowed by nature.

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I'm at least glad I haven't heard the 'prove it!' request in a long time because there's no sincerity to it, any attempt to 'prove it' just meets dismissals (no sign that whatever evidence was given even got looked at), if you bring up one study or one bit of science it's 'just one thing' in favor, you could bring up several things and the conversation will probably just end rather than progress,

Round eathers! THey are just as delusional as Flat earthers the fact that they are right doesn't mean that their thinking is an better.
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I'd add as well - I'm not out to force people to be intellectually honest, I can't, I would at least love to engage with people who want to try their hand at such but at the same time I'm equally too pessimistic about human nature (especially for what I've seen online in the last 20 years I've been on, looking at what's real in the news politically, etc.) to believe that it's possible for good arguments to make much of a dent.
Me too!

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If there are people who want to think critically about these things I'd love to talk to them,

PM me so we don't get interrupted by people jealous that people are having a conversation that is over their heads.

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Regardless though I'd also rather test the concepts that I work with, see what kinds of high quality criticism they get, and to the extent that they've stood the test of time and scrutiny I like to share my ideas because if almost no one else is saying these things, and if true they seem deeply salient/important, then I can't think of a particularly good reason not to talk about them.

You can't lead people to a truth they don't want to hear, but you can mislead them to it.

Lies are the sharpest weapon, truth the bluntest. And when you want to surgically remove a cancer from someone you want to use a sharp scalpel not a rusty spoon.


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Fnord
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26 Mar 2019, 4:49 pm

Hsingai wrote:
Round eathers! THey are just as delusional as Flat earthers the fact that they are right doesn't mean that their thinking is an better.
Actually, it does! It's because our thinking is better that delusion is stripped away and truth is revealed.



Hsingai
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26 Mar 2019, 4:57 pm

Pepe wrote:

I believe in synthetic "telepathy" using psychotronics...
Previous "lives" could simply be the implantation of "memories" through remote hypnotic influencing...<shrug>

Yes I know, wacky stuff... :mrgreen:

I'm not sure on what you terminology means but it seems like what I believe in. That past life memories are just implants of the gestalt subconsciousness.

Of course I believe that speech is just how neurons fire in the hive mind.


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