Why do poor right wingers worship an orange cheeto?

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Crimadella
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13 Mar 2019, 9:08 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Crimadella wrote:
I would ask the question, why does it seem a lot of middle class to upper middle class, college or university educated black conservatives vote for Trump? It crushes the Idea that it's done out of stupidity.

What I mean is, the black conservative may a low percentage, but they mostly all appear to be alot more educated than the people claiming stupid people voted for Trump.

Trump was the Republican candidate, and a lot of people vote for politicians of their party, so there is that.

A lot of people who voted Obama, a democrat, also vote for Trump. Watch "#walk away" videos to see all the Democrats who left the democratic party in 2016 and why.



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13 Mar 2019, 9:11 am

IMHO those "walk-aways" are just phuqing phools for thinking the GOP of all entities would treat them any better at all, they are just being played.



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13 Mar 2019, 9:17 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
I mean why is it working class people like my boyfriend who has a full time job, wouldn't be able to afford the one bedroom we have without me having SSI money to contribute to bills? I don't want him to pay all the bills, but seems like in my parents era a man working a full time at the age of 35 might be able to afford a house even if just a small one. Now a guy working his ass off doing labor full time, can barely afford a one bedroom apartment?


It's the product of a cynical, unspoken, perhaps unconscious, alliance between the Left (who want a multi-everything classless, nationless utopia) and Reaganist/Thatcherist economic liberals (who want a practically borderless capitalist utopia). Labour is not much different than any other commodity in the market, it is subject to supply and demand and people like your boyfriend are subject to two main pressures: Immigration and trade agreements with countries whose labour is cheaper.

Immigration is pretty easy to understand - the more people able to do your boyfriend's job - the less his labour is worth. More foreign people willing to work at lower wages under worse conditions likewise puts downwards pressure on his wages. Unions can do much, but they can't protect him against immigration because unions are usually steeped heavily in left wing dogma - they daren't say anything that might be considered racist. Pro-immigration people will start talking about GDP and the "average" Somalian immigrant hedgefunder who creates thousands of jobs but this is largely BS, which can be discussed later if need be. In before Walrus joins this thread and tells your boyfriend to learn to code. The vast majority of immigration is into the working class economic sphere. The gains from cost savings and competitiveness due to cheap immigrant labour mostly go to the top of society, making inequality between top and bottom an order of magnitude worse.

Trade agreements can pile on similar pressures. The offshoring issue might be summed up in an equation like the following. If domestic wages + cost of domestic regulation and taxation are more than the cost of foreign wages + shipping + cost of foreign regulation and taxation then bye-bye Boyfriend's job. Shipping is incredibly cheap these days... You might look at it another way: compared to labour other costs are usually insignificant. Free trade in any given sector or collection of sectors of the economy essentially creates a shared labour pool across borders. The trend in such an construct would be for the wages of labour to equalise over time. Chinese peasants see a huge increase in their standard of living while Western labour sees a corresponding decrease. Saying this is wrong makes you racist, naturellement.

Of course this has been going on for a long time. We are in the late stages of this game right now. The lucky few still retain vestigial manufacturing jobs, most have been pushed into the service sector - the very low skill, low wage jobs that can't be offshored, where there is even more competition from newly arrived immigrants.

On the other side of the problem: Rising housing costs is a factor of population (always increasing) combined with a relatively free movement of capital into Western countries and their fairly open property markets (the foreign people who get rich from off-shoring often buy property in the West to increase or at least preserve their newly acquired wealth, hell even middle class Chinese folks are doing this now). Immigration certainly puts more pressure on housing too for obvious reasons.
The destruction of marriage is another factor. More people divorcing or never marrying increases housing demand - they take up more houses than they would otherwise in a more rigid marriage culture.

There are other factors but since you mentioned the one salary household we used to enjoy in the West it should be noted that the massive entry of women into the paid workforce is another big factor. At its simplest it's much like immigration drastically increasing the supply of labour, but when combined with quotas, anti-discrimination law and subsidised child care in Europe the effects are uneven and fascinatingly bizarre in some areas.
I have actually gotten into rl arguments about this. The risible know-nothing pay gap moaners parade like to tell women that "now they are working for free" on some day of the year. It was the 10th of November last year in the UK. I like to retort by pointing out that a household which could have been run on one salary 70 years ago, now needs two (and a half?) incomes to run in the same way. Not only must Husband and Wife work, they are taxed pretty sorely so the children can be kept in a day orphanage child care centre just so mum can go out and be a wageslave. Women (at least ones financially attached to a man) are in effect working for free from Jan 1st and paying for the privilege.

Sweetleaf wrote:
Why is it all these people work their assess off, and are left poor and falling through the cracks?...but the big CEOs get most of the profit from their labor? It's not fair and it should be made more fair. At least that is my opinion for now.


I would not strive for "fairness" myself. It's too vague, easily abused and never-ending, like a war on "terror". Being an old Christian bigot myself I think a basic wage should be enough to provide for a small family household. I don't think socialism or socialist policies is the way to get that. It's failed too many times to be an accident or even a conspiracy. It is even less likely to work when the people you seek to tax can not only just move away from your country but have already stashed all their wealth in offshore tax havens. We need new ideas, but that is probably beyond the scope of this thread.


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Kraichgauer
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13 Mar 2019, 10:34 am

sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Piobaire wrote:
Quote:
Why do poor right wingers worship an orange cheeto?

Occam's Razor;
Racism, Conservatism Linked to Low I.Q.
:
To be sure, all you have to do is listen to how Trump voters answer questions:
About the space force: "ISIS might send a drone up into space with a bomb."
About Latino immigration: "They're bringing Ebola and leprosy into America."
About what President Obama was doing in the White House during 9/11: "I don't know, but I'd sure like to know."


Could say the same about the left.
Man the things anti gun people say is so stupid like can’t they google stuff.
So we can both quote stupid people on both side then claim it’s everyone, what good does that do? Other then divide the nation even more.


I'm not invested in the gun rights argument, so I wouldn't know.

Point is plenty of people on the left say stupid things , should I go around claiming most left leaning people are idiots?


But right wingers thinking we need a space force to stop ISIS from sending a drone into space, and that Obama was President during 9/11, says that the stupidest of right wingers take the cake for idiocy.


Left wingers thinking magazines are one tome use or barrel shoud is the shoulder thing that goes up and down, or that a 223 round will completely low up a deer or plane take the cake for idiocy.
How about that “tracer rounds are heat seeking projectiles” I could go on and on.
I dont know why I bother with you. Think I’m stupid and hate me all you want but it’s this divide that got trump elected and hurts our nation.


Hold on now! When did I ever call you stupid, or said I hated you? :o


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Anonymousdude
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13 Mar 2019, 12:10 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Piobaire wrote:
Quote:
Why do poor right wingers worship an orange cheeto?

Occam's Razor;
Racism, Conservatism Linked to Low I.Q.
:
To be sure, all you have to do is listen to how Trump voters answer questions:
About the space force: "ISIS might send a drone up into space with a bomb."
About Latino immigration: "They're bringing Ebola and leprosy into America."
About what President Obama was doing in the White House during 9/11: "I don't know, but I'd sure like to know."


Never heard anything about Obama visiting President Bush the day 911 happened. Is that supposed to be a trick question?



LoveNotHate
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13 Mar 2019, 12:52 pm

Many poor Trump supporters take personal responsibility for being poor.

"I'm poor, and it's my fault".

Image


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armandreyes
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13 Mar 2019, 12:56 pm

Yeap, those people are very stupid



Crimadella
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13 Mar 2019, 1:40 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
Many poor Trump supporters take personal responsibility for being poor.

"I'm poor, and it's my fault".

Image


You can find stupid people everywhere you look with every belief system. Explain why Asian people on average seem to be so successful, what qualities can you link to their high success rate in the US? Personal responsibility is a huge factor, it would be ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Their are a lot of factors involved to lower the success rate for people, in general is mostly concentrated around; lack of effort, not having a mom & dad within the same home, poorly ran government funded public education, poor choice in degree's that will have no benefit in the work place, irresponsibility(blowing your money like a moron), poor choices made in your life, disabilities, and the list continues...

Simply look at this, if you are born into wealth, work hard and obtain a good education, you have and extremely high probability of being well into the middle class. What does that highlight? Hard work and good education is the key to success(Ironically the same is true for poor Asians). Though I will point out that if you are creative or skilled enough in a particular area and simply work hard and don't settle for low paying jobs, your success rate will also be very high.

Even people with disabilities can make it with these three factors, work hard, don't settle for low pay, have a good education. That doesn't mean all people with disabilities will be successful, some people are crippled by there disabilities, like me. But, If I weren't so nervous around people I would have 100% made it well into the middle class because I am a very hard worker and I had a skill that would allow me to start my own pool business and very possible profit over 100k a year. That is even with a very poor education, my disability of extreme discomfort around people is the only reason I am not successful.



Crimadella
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13 Mar 2019, 1:56 pm

I have worked with many people, the thing that greatly sticks out is how your average person that is poor is more than likely slack, they mess everything up, they are not responsible and they are there simply to collect their check and do the bare minimum.



sly279
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13 Mar 2019, 2:02 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Piobaire wrote:
Quote:
Why do poor right wingers worship an orange cheeto?

Occam's Razor;
Racism, Conservatism Linked to Low I.Q.
:
To be sure, all you have to do is listen to how Trump voters answer questions:
About the space force: "ISIS might send a drone up into space with a bomb."
About Latino immigration: "They're bringing Ebola and leprosy into America."
About what President Obama was doing in the White House during 9/11: "I don't know, but I'd sure like to know."


Could say the same about the left.
Man the things anti gun people say is so stupid like can’t they google stuff.
So we can both quote stupid people on both side then claim it’s everyone, what good does that do? Other then divide the nation even more.


I'm not invested in the gun rights argument, so I wouldn't know.

Point is plenty of people on the left say stupid things , should I go around claiming most left leaning people are idiots?


But right wingers thinking we need a space force to stop ISIS from sending a drone into space, and that Obama was President during 9/11, says that the stupidest of right wingers take the cake for idiocy.


Left wingers thinking magazines are one tome use or barrel shoud is the shoulder thing that goes up and down, or that a 223 round will completely low up a deer or plane take the cake for idiocy.
How about that “tracer rounds are heat seeking projectiles” I could go on and on.
I dont know why I bother with you. Think I’m stupid and hate me all you want but it’s this divide that got trump elected and hurts our nation.


Hold on now! When did I ever call you stupid, or said I hated you? :o

You say that about trump supporters/voters all the tome. I support trump I voted for him and I’ll vote again for him in 2020. So when you say those things about trump supports you are saying them about me.


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13 Mar 2019, 6:20 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
Many poor Trump supporters take personal responsibility for being poor.

"I'm poor, and it's my fault".

Image


OUCH! 8O


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13 Mar 2019, 6:34 pm

Crimadella wrote:
I have worked with many people, the thing that greatly sticks out is how your average person that is poor is more than likely slack, they mess everything up, they are not responsible and they are there simply to collect their check and do the bare minimum.


I got lucky...
I had good people around me...
And now I am financially independent...

Like I said, I got lucky...
I could have easily been on welfare my entire life because I had serious psychological and neurological challenges when I was young...

While I agree that there seems to be a pervasive attitude of entitlement here in Oz, there are many/most who simply had a bad hand dealt to them...

You can't answer this, but what is the proportion of people who are taking advantage of the social structure as opposed to those who "should" be given some slack because of their relative handicaps? :wink:

Doesn't it really boil down to attitude?


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I'm not here to change the world...There isn't a big enough soiled nappy bin... ;)
Autistic/scout motto: "Give me a better argument and I will listen..."
"Hate me for who I am...Not for who you think I am..."
You have been weighed...you have been measured...and you have been found wanking...:P
"Honesty is not a social duty, not a sacrifice for the sake of others, but the most profoundly selfish virtue man can practice: his refusal to sacrifice the reality of his own existence to the deluded consciousness of others."
Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8) I'm a rationalist...Deal with it...:mrgreen:


Crimadella
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13 Mar 2019, 7:08 pm

Pepe wrote:
Crimadella wrote:
I have worked with many people, the thing that greatly sticks out is how your average person that is poor is more than likely slack, they mess everything up, they are not responsible and they are there simply to collect their check and do the bare minimum.


I got lucky...
I had good people around me...
And now I am financially independent...

Like I said, I got lucky...
I could have easily been on welfare my entire life because I had serious psychological and neurological challenges when I was young...

While I agree that there seems to be a pervasive attitude of entitlement here in Oz, there are many/most who simply had a bad hand dealt to them...

You can't answer this, but what is the proportion of people who are taking advantage of the social structure as opposed to those who "should" be given some slack because of their relative handicaps? :wink:

Doesn't it really boil down to attitude?

It's actually very common for people to take advantage of the welfare state here, to such a degree that they had to place restrictions on how many children you can have while on welfare, that limit is now 3. I would say if you are on welfare should only be able to have one if you don't already have kids. There are people with legitimate issues and there are people who are lazy and try to cheat the welfare system. It's hard to say what percentage cheats it, I suspect a lot though.

(You get more $$ for every child you have so people would produce a lot of children while they were already on welfare, generally single mom's also)



sly279
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13 Mar 2019, 9:16 pm

So do they kill kids when you’re over 3?
Thought conservatives were anti abortion 0.o


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14 Mar 2019, 1:49 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
Many poor Trump supporters take personal responsibility for being poor.

"I'm poor, and it's my fault".

Image



League Girl's version of how to stop being poor as a person with a disability:

Finish high school

Work for a year

Get on Social security

Work seven years.

Get on SSDI.

Get married and make sure your partner is disabled too and have them get on SSDI.

Have children and put them on Social Security.

Congratulations, you are no longer poor. We did it. (does the Dora dance)


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