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VegetableMan
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14 May 2019, 11:39 am

Arganger wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Voting is a meaningless, f*****g exercise if we don't have anyone worth voting for. I voted for Jill Stein in the last election with the hopes of pushing her to 5%, which would give the Green Party more leverage cycle. There's no way I'd vote for any other candidate in the Dem field besides Tulsi Gabbard. Corporate media shills like Maddow will always try to shame third-party voters, but they can shove that s**t straight up their elite asses. I no longer respond to their propaganda.


Jill was an open antivaxxer :eew:


She had some issues with vaccines, but she wasn't an anti-vaxxer.


https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/is-gr ... i-vaccine/


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VegetableMan
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14 May 2019, 11:54 am

The_Walrus wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
ApricitiousRory wrote:
Voting third party in a presidential election is effectively throwing your vote away. I agree that more than two viable parties is greatly needed but the way to build one is by committing to state & local elections to essentially build a caucus that will eventually make federal third party candidates viable on a national level. However, the political system status quo in the USA makes a third party extremely hard to grow over time, especially if nascent third parties just run a handful of candidates in primarily federal elections only. IMO.


Actually, I think voting for corporate politicians from either party is throwing our votes away, since it only maintains a broken system ruled by corporatists. We have been bamboozled into believing that there is a difference between Dems and Pubs, when that hasn't been the case for well over 30 years.

The narrative you're pushing is being driven by the corporatists. "Hey, don't bother voting for third-party and independents, they can't win! Ya gotta pick one of the two major candidates selected for you, via a rigged primary process!"


I guess we're f****d either way, eh?

The bolded section is obviously and demonstrably false. There are few countries in the West with as radical a divide between the two biggest parties as the USA. In the 70s the system was much less polarised, but these days there are very few moderate Republicans and very few conservative Democrats (at least, in power).

I would suggest you are either unfamiliar with American politics, or perhaps you place an unusually large amount of weight on one of the issues that they do agree on to the extent that you ignore the huge and meaningful differences between the two parties. Your life and your country would be much better if a few hundred people in Michigan, Wisconsin and Florida had voted for Hillary Clinton.

I would, however, agree with you that voting outside of these two parties is rarely a waste. Indeed, if you live in a safe state like Illinois then you should vote with your conscience. But in a marginal state like New Mexico, you should choose between the two candidates running for the big parties.



Oh, that's rich! Somebody from another country telling me I'm unfamiliar with American politics. I can back up my claim all day long, and have been doing so for a very long time. I actually paid attention during the Obama years and realized he was every bit as horrible as his predecessor Bush. The Dems are actually more dangerous than the Pubs, because they try to make people believe they're progressives, then get in office and f**k over the people with as much vigor as the Pubs. You don't have any idea what you're talking about. It's best not to make an assertion if you haven't done any research.


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Kraichgauer
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14 May 2019, 9:49 pm

Arganger wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Voting is a meaningless, f*****g exercise if we don't have anyone worth voting for. I voted for Jill Stein in the last election with the hopes of pushing her to 5%, which would give the Green Party more leverage cycle. There's no way I'd vote for any other candidate in the Dem field besides Tulsi Gabbard. Corporate media shills like Maddow will always try to shame third-party voters, but they can shove that s**t straight up their elite asses. I no longer respond to their propaganda.


Jill was an open antivaxxer :eew:


Great reason not to vote for her.


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VegetableMan
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14 May 2019, 10:01 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Arganger wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Voting is a meaningless, f*****g exercise if we don't have anyone worth voting for. I voted for Jill Stein in the last election with the hopes of pushing her to 5%, which would give the Green Party more leverage cycle. There's no way I'd vote for any other candidate in the Dem field besides Tulsi Gabbard. Corporate media shills like Maddow will always try to shame third-party voters, but they can shove that s**t straight up their elite asses. I no longer respond to their propaganda.


Jill was an open antivaxxer :eew:


Great reason not to vote for her.


Jill Stein is not an anti-vaxxer. Did you not check out the link I provided?


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Kraichgauer
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14 May 2019, 10:08 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Arganger wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Voting is a meaningless, f*****g exercise if we don't have anyone worth voting for. I voted for Jill Stein in the last election with the hopes of pushing her to 5%, which would give the Green Party more leverage cycle. There's no way I'd vote for any other candidate in the Dem field besides Tulsi Gabbard. Corporate media shills like Maddow will always try to shame third-party voters, but they can shove that s**t straight up their elite asses. I no longer respond to their propaganda.


Jill was an open antivaxxer :eew:


Great reason not to vote for her.


Jill Stein is not an anti-vaxxer. Did you not check out the link I provided?


I fired off my message before I even knew you had a rebuttal on the following page.


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EzraS
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14 May 2019, 10:10 pm

Just goes to show the power of partisan rumor mill media over facts.



Kraichgauer
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14 May 2019, 10:31 pm

EzraS wrote:
Just goes to show the power of partisan rumor mill media over facts.


I seem to recall the Republicans being very good at that, such as with birtherism, and the Satanist/pedophile ring being run out of a DC pizza parlor by the Clintons and Lady Gaga.


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auntblabby
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15 May 2019, 1:58 am

as long as they are not a neo-fascist GOPer, i will vote for the nominee among them.



EzraS
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15 May 2019, 2:11 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Just goes to show the power of partisan rumor mill media over facts.


I seem to recall the Republicans being very good at that, such as with birtherism, and the Satanist/pedophile ring being run out of a DC pizza parlor by the Clintons and Lady Gaga.


Do you ever notice how ofen you use republican this to equate to democrat that? Seems to reinforce VegetableMan's assertion of six of one and a half dozen of the other.



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15 May 2019, 5:53 am

We're on our way to becoming a one-party system if states like Georgia and Alabama don't stop pushing these strict abortion laws.


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auntblabby
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15 May 2019, 6:42 am

i would not put it past the GOP to try to outlaw the other parties.



Tim_Tex
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15 May 2019, 8:27 am

auntblabby wrote:
i would not put it past the GOP to try to outlaw the other parties.


I meant the GOP being voted out of existence and the Dems having a virtual monopoly.

I would not want to see either party disappear, and would prefer a multi-party system, with the option of coalition governments.

But where things stand now, I would like to see both parties intact, even if just to keep the other party in check.


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Kraichgauer
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15 May 2019, 10:06 am

EzraS wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
EzraS wrote:
Just goes to show the power of partisan rumor mill media over facts.


I seem to recall the Republicans being very good at that, such as with birtherism, and the Satanist/pedophile ring being run out of a DC pizza parlor by the Clintons and Lady Gaga.


Do you ever notice how ofen you use republican this to equate to democrat that? Seems to reinforce VegetableMan's assertion of six of one and a half dozen of the other.


How am I wrong that the right comes up with such insane conspiracy theories more so than the left?


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Kraichgauer
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15 May 2019, 10:07 am

Tim_Tex wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
i would not put it past the GOP to try to outlaw the other parties.


I meant the GOP being voted out of existence and the Dems having a virtual monopoly.

I would not want to see either party disappear, and would prefer a multi-party system, with the option of coalition governments.

But where things stand now, I would like to see both parties intact, even if just to keep the other party in check.


If the Republicans were to disappear, they'd be replaced by some other party waiting in the wings, just as the Whigs were replaced by the Republicans in the 19th century.


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VegetableMan
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15 May 2019, 10:17 am

We basically already have a one-party system with two different factions that equally embrace neoliberalism. It's all an illusion that there is any discernible difference between the Dems and Pubs, and that is carefully cultivated by the corporatists to perpetuate the political divide.


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