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LoveNotHate
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15 May 2019, 2:06 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
We basically already have a one-party system with two different factions that equally embrace neoliberalism. It's all an illusion that there is any discernible difference between the Dems and Pubs, and that is carefully cultivated by the corporatists to perpetuate the political divide.

Democrats will ...

-open up the illegal alien spigot
-end most of the Trump tariffs (steel, aluminum, China)
-bring free trade deals back (CAFTA, TPP)
-install a pro SJ (Social Justice) Justice Department
-give lip service to environmentalism, wealth inequality, education, medical insurance costs, progressiveness, helping working people
-likely raise taxes on poor and middle class people


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Kraichgauer
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15 May 2019, 4:06 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
We basically already have a one-party system with two different factions that equally embrace neoliberalism. It's all an illusion that there is any discernible difference between the Dems and Pubs, and that is carefully cultivated by the corporatists to perpetuate the political divide.

Democrats will ...

-open up the illegal alien spigot
-end most of the Trump tariffs (steel, aluminum, China)
-bring free trade deals back (CAFTA, TPP)
-install a pro SJ (Social Justice) Justice Department
-give lip service to environmentalism, wealth inequality, education, medical insurance costs, progressiveness, helping working people
-likely raise taxes on poor and middle class people


As long as they raise taxes on the rich and big corporations, AND make it illegal for said rich and big corporations from leaving American shores to avoid taxation.
What's wrong with the Justice Department fighting for social justice, such as civil rights?


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LoveNotHate
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15 May 2019, 4:36 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
As long as they raise taxes on the rich and big corporations, AND make it illegal for said rich and big corporations from leaving American shores to avoid taxation.

That's lip service.

Democrats have control of the House of Reps now, so what are they waiting for?

Kraichgauer wrote:
What's wrong with the Justice Department fighting for social justice, such as civil rights?

It's great.

I particularly like when they fight self-righteous school districts.


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Tim_Tex
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15 May 2019, 7:26 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
auntblabby wrote:
i would not put it past the GOP to try to outlaw the other parties.


I meant the GOP being voted out of existence and the Dems having a virtual monopoly.

I would not want to see either party disappear, and would prefer a multi-party system, with the option of coalition governments.

But where things stand now, I would like to see both parties intact, even if just to keep the other party in check.


If the Republicans were to disappear, they'd be replaced by some other party waiting in the wings, just as the Whigs were replaced by the Republicans in the 19th century.


In any case, for the GOP to survive, people like Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski will have to become the norm.


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VegetableMan
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15 May 2019, 7:48 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
We basically already have a one-party system with two different factions that equally embrace neoliberalism. It's all an illusion that there is any discernible difference between the Dems and Pubs, and that is carefully cultivated by the corporatists to perpetuate the political divide.



Quote:
-open up the illegal alien spigot


Not likely to happen. Obama didn't do it. In fact, his policy on immigration wasn't that much different that Trump's.

Quote:
-end most of the Trump tariffs (steel, aluminum, China)


I don't have enough knowledge about that issue, so I can't comment.


Quote:
bring free trade deals back (CAFTA, TPP)

Just as many Pubs support those horrible trade deals as Republicans. True progressives, like Bernie Sanders, are against them.


Quote:
-give lip service to environmentalism, wealth inequality, education, medical insurance costs, progressiveness, helping working people


No argument there. In fact, that proves my point that Dems are every bit as neoliberal as the Pubs.
Quote:
-likely raise taxes on poor and middle class people


Both parties routinely raise taxes on the poor and middle class.


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Kraichgauer
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15 May 2019, 8:09 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
As long as they raise taxes on the rich and big corporations, AND make it illegal for said rich and big corporations from leaving American shores to avoid taxation.

That's lip service.

Democrats have control of the House of Reps now, so what are they waiting for?

Kraichgauer wrote:
What's wrong with the Justice Department fighting for social justice, such as civil rights?

It's great.

I particularly like when they fight self-righteous school districts.


Not a lot they can do without the senate on their side. And they need to rid themselves of their own corporate shills.


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LoveNotHate
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15 May 2019, 9:49 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Not a lot they can do without the senate on their side. And they need to rid themselves of their own corporate shills.

They can pass a bill tomorrow. Especially, since they know it's going nowhere.

However, they can't even do that.

Can't you see you're being played?


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beneficii
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15 May 2019, 9:51 pm

Kraichgauer,

Quote:
As long as they raise taxes on the rich and big corporations, AND make it illegal for said rich and big corporations from leaving American shores to avoid taxation.


How would you enforce this?


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Kraichgauer
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15 May 2019, 11:17 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Not a lot they can do without the senate on their side. And they need to rid themselves of their own corporate shills.

They can pass a bill tomorrow. Especially, since they know it's going nowhere.

However, they can't even do that.

Can't you see you're being played?


Who am I supposed to trust then, the right?


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Kraichgauer
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15 May 2019, 11:18 pm

beneficii wrote:
Kraichgauer,

Quote:
As long as they raise taxes on the rich and big corporations, AND make it illegal for said rich and big corporations from leaving American shores to avoid taxation.


How would you enforce this?


Maybe seize their property if they try leaving American shores?


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beneficii
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16 May 2019, 1:16 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Kraichgauer,

Quote:
As long as they raise taxes on the rich and big corporations, AND make it illegal for said rich and big corporations from leaving American shores to avoid taxation.


How would you enforce this?


Maybe seize their property if they try leaving American shores?


What would trigger such action? Aren't people generally free to come and go as they wish?


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Kraichgauer
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16 May 2019, 1:39 am

beneficii wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
beneficii wrote:
Kraichgauer,

Quote:
As long as they raise taxes on the rich and big corporations, AND make it illegal for said rich and big corporations from leaving American shores to avoid taxation.


How would you enforce this?


Maybe seize their property if they try leaving American shores?


What would trigger such action? Aren't people generally free to come and go as they wish?


Not when they take thousands, if not millions, of jobs with them.


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16 May 2019, 1:42 am

I admit I am hardly a business savvy person, and because of the fact that I grew up in a union household, I am driven much more by emotion on this issue. That's not to say that I'm admitting to be wrong, because something has to be done about American oligarchs who have zero loyalty to the American people.


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beneficii
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16 May 2019, 2:07 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
I admit I am hardly a business savvy person, and because of the fact that I grew up in a union household, I am driven much more by emotion on this issue. That's not to say that I'm admitting to be wrong, because something has to be done about American oligarchs who have zero loyalty to the American people.


Well, I do wish you would also use your head in this issue, because policies that have been designed to stop this have had a wide range of negative effects. It results in many middle class Americans, who have lived abroad for decades, having to fill out onerous paperwork every year, even when they don't owe any tax. It also results in the enactment of unusual policies, as the US and Eritrea are the only two countries in the world that indefinitely tax the foreign income of citizens living abroad.

Sometimes, it seems like the issue is less anger at rich Americans leaving, and more a general anger at the idea that some people would rather live somewhere else other than America.


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Kraichgauer
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16 May 2019, 5:00 am

beneficii wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I admit I am hardly a business savvy person, and because of the fact that I grew up in a union household, I am driven much more by emotion on this issue. That's not to say that I'm admitting to be wrong, because something has to be done about American oligarchs who have zero loyalty to the American people.


Well, I do wish you would also use your head in this issue, because policies that have been designed to stop this have had a wide range of negative effects. It results in many middle class Americans, who have lived abroad for decades, having to fill out onerous paperwork every year, even when they don't owe any tax. It also results in the enactment of unusual policies, as the US and Eritrea are the only two countries in the world that indefinitely tax the foreign income of citizens living abroad.

Sometimes, it seems like the issue is less anger at rich Americans leaving, and more a general anger at the idea that some people would rather live somewhere else other than America.


I can see how such policies could inadvertently harm middle class people it was never intended to effect. I don't have any problem with American expatriates, as such people have included many who have made an important mark in the arts such as Hemingway, William Burroughs, Josephine Baker, and others who I have the upmost respect for. My problem is with rich people and corporations who are too cheap to pay their fair share of taxes.


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