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Pepe
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11 May 2019, 7:58 pm

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The Antifa (/ænˈtiːfə, ˈæntiˌfɑː/)[1] movement is a conglomeration of left-wing autonomous, militant anti-fascist[7] groups in the United States.[11] The principal feature of antifa groups is their use of direct action,[12] with conflicts occurring both online and in real life.[13] They engage in varied protest tactics, which include digital activism, property damage, physical violence, and harassment against those whom they identify as fascist, racist, or on the far-right.[18] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)


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Irony: a situation in which something which was intended to have a particular result has the opposite or a very different result:


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Darmok
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11 May 2019, 8:02 pm

Antifa, a.k.a. violent Communist guerillas.


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Pepe
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11 May 2019, 8:11 pm

Darmok wrote:
Antifa, a.k.a. violent Communist guerillas.


Aren't they: Left-wing fascists?
Hence the "irony" definition supplied. :mrgreen:


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Darmok
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11 May 2019, 8:19 pm

Pepe wrote:
Darmok wrote:
Antifa, a.k.a. violent Communist guerillas.

Aren't they: Left-wing fascists?
Hence the "irony" definition supplied. :mrgreen:

Violent totalitarian National Socialists, violent totalitarian International Socialists – potayto, potahto, antifa, protifa. They're basically terrorists all the same.


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Pepe
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11 May 2019, 8:22 pm

Darmok wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Darmok wrote:
Antifa, a.k.a. violent Communist guerillas.

Aren't they: Left-wing fascists?
Hence the "irony" definition supplied. :mrgreen:

Violent totalitarian National Socialists, violent totalitarian International Socialists – potayto, potahto, antifa, protifa. They're basically terrorists all the same.


No.
They are just misunderstood.
Spraying people in the face with mace is just an existential acknowledgement of "your" existence. :roll:


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Tim_Tex
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11 May 2019, 8:25 pm

They advertise themselves as the "default" against fascism. Most people are against fascism, but most are also against anarcho-communism as well.

We're basically debating which type of extremism is more palatable.


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RushKing
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11 May 2019, 8:44 pm


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgwS_FMZ3nQ



Last edited by RushKing on 11 May 2019, 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Pepe
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11 May 2019, 8:47 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
They advertise themselves as the "default" against fascism. Most people are against fascism, but most are also against anarcho-communism as well.

We're basically debating which type of extremism is more palatable.


Erm, no.
Well, not me in any case.
I think both are an abomination and degrades humanity.


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Pepe
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11 May 2019, 9:56 pm

RushKing wrote:


Hmmm.
I don't know much about Antifa, hence my starting this thread.
I have only known it in a bad light.
So the violent protestors I have seen in the media are the extreme elements of the "non-movement".

RE the video:
Sorry m8, 2 wrongs don't make a right.
And encouraging violence for good (in this context) is an oxymoron and only is utilised by morons, imnsho.
It just makes you as bad as the baddies.

But this is coming from a pacifist.
If you have a violent bent, or if you are a slave to self-righteousness, or a virtue signaller extraordinaire, or an emotionalist who needs a cathartic release then, by all means, go for it. 8O

This is absurd:
The tactic of Antifa in shutting down debate or simple information dissemination activity is arbitrary censorship.
So who decides what can or cannot be discussed?
I have seen so many examples of non-right-wing speakers targetted and in some cases literally attacked for simply having a variant philosophical position.
This is what happens when emotionalists engage in groupthink.
The "us against them mentality" is the refuge of the intellectually bereft.
And how can the dismemberment of freedom of speech and the denial of freedom of thought be considered virtuous?
Personally, I am appalled by the mindset of anti-intellectual emotionalists.

RE: Appeasement.
"In similar terms". <sigh>
Remember his words if you argue my point here.
He is a slippery manipulative sod subtly interconnecting concepts that are not valid.
Appeasement is not the same as a passive protest you ninny and to connect it to Chamberlain is deceitful.
Straw man stuff and nonsense.
Some anti-fascist may demand violence for violence, and an eye for an eye, but that is emotionalist, self-righteous, virtue-signalling nonsense, period.
M8, your credibility is starting to be shredded bigtime. <shake head from side to side>

He then states that not all left-wing violence is ok.
Well duh. <chuckle>
Sorry m8, the far left that employ fascist violent tactics employ fascist violent tactics.
That is what makes them far left, for god's sake. :roll:
This guy is a goose. :mrgreen:

I can't be bothered listening further, so I won't. :mrgreen:


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RushKing
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11 May 2019, 10:22 pm

Pepe wrote:
Hmmm.
I don't know much about Antifa, hence my starting this thread.
I have only known it in a bad light.
So the violent protestors I have seen in the media are the extreme elements of the "non-movement".

RE the video:
Sorry m8, 2 wrongs don't make a right.
And encouraging violence for good (in this context) is an oxymoron and only is utilised by morons, imnsho.
It just makes you as bad as the baddies.

But this is coming from a pacifist.

All politics is violence at the end of the day. Do you think all politics is equal?



Pepe
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11 May 2019, 10:48 pm

RushKing wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Hmmm.
I don't know much about Antifa, hence my starting this thread.
I have only known it in a bad light.
So the violent protestors I have seen in the media are the extreme elements of the "non-movement".

RE the video:
Sorry m8, 2 wrongs don't make a right.
And encouraging violence for good (in this context) is an oxymoron and only is utilised by morons, imnsho.
It just makes you as bad as the baddies.

But this is coming from a pacifist.

All politics is violence at the end of the day. Do you think all politics is equal?


Show me how you think: "All politics is violence at the end of the day"?
Erm.
Please. :mrgreen:

"Do you think all politics is equal?"
Strange question. :scratch:
What context are you using?

Some political movements cater to more emotional people.
Some to the more rational amongst us.
I have said this many times.
Am I near the ballpark?


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RushKing
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11 May 2019, 11:08 pm

Pepe wrote:

Show me how you think: "All politics is violence at the end of the day"?
Erm.
Please. :mrgreen:

I want to know what you think of that statement.
Pepe wrote:
"Do you think all politics is equal?"
Strange question. :scratch:
What context are you using?

Any context.



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11 May 2019, 11:09 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
They advertise themselves as the "default" against fascism. Most people are against fascism, but most are also against anarcho-communism as well.

We're basically debating which type of extremism is more palatable.


Well at least you're right about the term "anarco". Their flag is red and black and if you know anything about what that color combination stands for, it's anarchism. That's totally different from any kind of communism.

Pepe: So you're a pacifist, right? Well that's fine, I can respect the principle at least. But it's completely impractical in fighting fascists who purposely target vulnerable populations here in the States, just as Tarrant did in NZ at that mosque and as all white nationalists here do b/c they're goal is an apartheid type of society. It really isn't that hard to understand. As to why Antifa uses violence against them? B/c that's self defense, that's what Antifa does, in the States at least. And I can tell you to cite one example, Charlottesville, there are several African American activists who were there, maybe most famously Cornell West and he says here how Antifa literally saved their lives: https://www.democracynow.org/2017/8/14/ ... mon_clergy

This isn't child's play man, at all. I have no time or interest in dialogue w/fascists or white nationalists. I want their organizations broken up, crushed and buried into the dustbin of history and if their members harm vulnerable populations (which is the principle terrorist threat in the US, has been for at least a decade) I want them jailed for a long ass time till they reform themselves. And last point btw, who beat the Nazis? The Soviets did. Europeans have Stalin and his red army to thank for losing 27 million people, but still crushing the 3rd Reich. I'm not f*****g interested in seeing a 4th rise up, despite what alot of these racist maniacs want.



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12 May 2019, 12:59 am

RushKing wrote:
Pepe wrote:

Show me how you think: "All politics is violence at the end of the day"?
Erm.
Please. :mrgreen:

I want to know what you think of that statement.
Pepe wrote:
"Do you think all politics is equal?"
Strange question. :scratch:
What context are you using?

Any context.


I can't see: "All politics is violence at the end of the day"
I live in Australia, remember.
So are you going to explain yourself now?
Do you agree (with your own statement?).

I gave you an example where I created a context.
Do *you* think all politics is equal?


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12 May 2019, 1:23 am

breaks0 wrote:
Tim_Tex wrote:
They advertise themselves as the "default" against fascism. Most people are against fascism, but most are also against anarcho-communism as well.

We're basically debating which type of extremism is more palatable.


Well at least you're right about the term "anarco". Their flag is red and black and if you know anything about what that color combination stands for, it's anarchism. That's totally different from any kind of communism.

Pepe: So you're a pacifist, right? Well that's fine, I can respect the principle at least. But it's completely impractical in fighting fascists who purposely target vulnerable populations here in the States, just as Tarrant did in NZ at that mosque and as all white nationalists here do b/c they're goal is an apartheid type of society. It really isn't that hard to understand. As to why Antifa uses violence against them? B/c that's self defense, that's what Antifa does, in the States at least. And I can tell you to cite one example, Charlottesville, there are several African American activists who were there, maybe most famously Cornell West and he says here how Antifa literally saved their lives: https://www.democracynow.org/2017/8/14/ ... mon_clergy

This isn't child's play man, at all. I have no time or interest in dialogue w/fascists or white nationalists. I want their organizations broken up, crushed and buried into the dustbin of history and if their members harm vulnerable populations (which is the principle terrorist threat in the US, has been for at least a decade) I want them jailed for a long ass time till they reform themselves. And last point btw, who beat the Nazis? The Soviets did. Europeans have Stalin and his red army to thank for losing 27 million people, but still crushing the 3rd Reich. I'm not f*****g interested in seeing a 4th rise up, despite what alot of these racist maniacs want.


My point is that most people are somewhere in between.


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Pepe
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12 May 2019, 2:52 am

breaks0 wrote:

Pepe: So you're a pacifist, right? Well that's fine, I can respect the principle at least. But it's completely impractical in fighting fascists who purposely target vulnerable populations here in the States, just as Tarrant did in NZ at that mosque and as all white nationalists here do b/c they're goal is an apartheid type of society. It really isn't that hard to understand. As to why Antifa uses violence against them? B/c that's self defense, that's what Antifa does, in the States at least. And I can tell you to cite one example, Charlottesville, there are several African American activists who were there, maybe most famously Cornell West and he says here how Antifa literally saved their lives: https://www.democracynow.org/2017/8/14/ ... mon_clergy


RE: your link.
Was anyone actually hurt?
From what I read it was a case of people fearing they were going to be hurt.
Please clarify.

I don't see the same problem here in Australia.
To the contrary.
The problem we have here is the far left acting like thugs.

Alt. right are considered social misfits, by and large, even by most moderate conservatives, I believe.
I don't think the same can be said about the "alt." left, from a left-wing point of view.

Conservatives over here don't initiate physical aggression that I am aware of.
They generally create rational dialogue, disseminate information about the anti-social behaviour of the far left, which in turn puts a spotlight on left-wing fascist activity and hopefully influences public opinion to combat the problem.
Time will tell if this is enough in countering thuggish behaviour here.

breaks0 wrote:
This isn't child's play man, at all. I have no time or interest in dialogue w/fascists or white nationalists. I want their organizations broken up, crushed and buried into the dustbin of history and if their members harm vulnerable populations (which is the principle terrorist threat in the US, has been for at least a decade) I want them jailed for a long ass time till they reform themselves.


So taking the law in your own hands (breaking it) is something of which you are comfortable?

Many conservatives here in Australia feel the same way about the far left due to their engaging in intimidation and worse.
Physical attacks, death threats against primary individuals and their families, etc.
Far left-wing activists here in Australia are running amok.
But encouraging other anti-social behaviours will only encourage the escalation of more anti-social behaviour, surely.

As I have said, I am a pacifist and an intellectual.
If I let my inner reptile gain dominance, I will be the ultimate loser.
And society will have lost a very precious gift. :mrgreen:


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