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funeralxempire
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23 May 2019, 3:29 pm

RushKing wrote:
Wikipedia wrote:
Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership of the means of production and workers' self-management, as well as the political theories and movements associated with them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

Daniel89 wrote:
Socialism has killed far more than Nazism and also does not believe in Human rights.

Seeing that socialism is often defined as worker ownership and control of the means of production; how many people did worker cooperatives kill?


The problem with the term socialism, is that it's such a broad family of ideologies that entirely voluntary, democratically ran small collectives and the USSR both are fair game for lumping together for real world examples, (and if you're a millennial leftist, or alt-right or the Fox News crowd somehow you end up including mixed economies like Canada and the Nordic countries, but only when it's convenient to the point you're making and never when it's not) and in terms of ideologies you somehow end up including many, far more radical ideologies.

Further, in the west typically when the 'capitalists' and 'socialists' are arguing they're either arguing over where exactly the balance in a mixed economy should be, which shouldn't be a black and white issue or they're bickering over who's imaginary system works better within their own mind, because examples of failures and successes of both exist. Further, when they argue economics as though capitalism and socialism represent a binary choice, they ignore that Keynesian economics, neo-mercantilism and other concepts inform most nations economic policies and have been embraced by both 'liberal' and 'conservative' political leaders over the past 100 years at various times.


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Pepe
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23 May 2019, 7:04 pm

RushKing wrote:
Pepe wrote:
RushKing wrote:
Pepe wrote:
Quote:
"Hey, dipshits, when you move into the arena for violence, what do you think is going to happen."


Strange coming from Kyle. He's already in the arena of violence. He's okay with violence as long the state apparatus does it for him.


You know him.
I don't, granted.

Kyle is a plain social democrat and Noam Chomsky is an anarchist. Kyle's ideology, like every other state ideology requires a great deal of violence to meet its ends.



But but but. 8O
He specifically says he is against violence, from memory. 8O


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Pepe
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23 May 2019, 7:09 pm

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
Wolfram87 wrote:
mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
I'd be dead if it weren't for socialism.


Can't help but think you'd be dead as a direct result of Socialism under any number of regimes. And furthermore, strong Social Safety-Net =/= Socialism.

Signed

A Capitalist country frequently mistaken for a Socialist one.

Socialism =/= communism. Ever heard of democratic socialism? That's what Canada and the Scandinavian countries practice.


No, it's not. Democratic Socialism is not the same thing as Social Democracy, which is what we have in Scandinavia. More precisely, the Nordic Model.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_mo ... mic_system

Democratic socialism, social democracy, what's the f*****g difference?


Don't mess with the Wolfram.
He will eat you for breakfast. :mrgreen:

Mikah wrote:
mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
I'm not sure which one I'd be then. I'd like to see the abolishment of capitalism, yet at the same time I recognize the alternative doesn't really work due to human nature.


To steal and butcher a phrase, capitalism is the worst system in the world...




... except for all the others.


Quote:
“Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.”

― Winston S. Churchill https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/267224 ... pt-for-all


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Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude.
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And one more thing,




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RushKing
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23 May 2019, 9:59 pm

Pepe wrote:
But but but. 8O
He specifically says he is against violence, from memory. 8O

Irrelevant... Governments are violent institutions.



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25 May 2019, 3:09 am

RushKing wrote:
Pepe wrote:
But but but. 8O
He specifically says he is against violence, from memory. 8O

Irrelevant... Governments are violent institutions.


I liked how he admonished those joining Antifa.
That is relevant to me.
I think we are having two different conversations. <chuckle>

Pax. :wink:


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Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude.
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Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


mr_bigmouth_502
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26 May 2019, 4:01 am

Mikah wrote:
mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
I'm not sure which one I'd be then. I'd like to see the abolishment of capitalism, yet at the same time I recognize the alternative doesn't really work due to human nature.


To steal and butcher a phrase, capitalism is the worst system in the world...




... except for all the others.

You're thinking of democracy, though democracy and capitalism often go hand in hand. That said, I'm really not a fan of capitalism. I like the idea of people starting small, honest businesses, but not the big corporations that have so much power they're basically immune from the law.


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27 May 2019, 1:49 am

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
You're thinking of democracy, though democracy and capitalism often go hand in hand. That said, I'm really not a fan of capitalism. I like the idea of people starting small, honest businesses, but not the big corporations that have so much power they're basically immune from the law.


I'm aware of the original quote. I don't think it's true of democracy though, much better applied to capitalism from the point of view of a social conservative.


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30 May 2019, 8:14 pm

In summary:
It seems to me that part of Antifa's manifesto is as follows: "Meet violence with violence."
Please correct me if I am wrong.

If so, I want nothing to do with this feral organisation and hope it fails here in Australia.
It is, after all, based on emotionalism which is the antithesis of my own personal manifesto. 8)


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Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,




Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


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30 May 2019, 8:51 pm

Pepe wrote:
In summary:
It seems to me that part of Antifa's manifesto is as follows: "Meet violence with violence."
Please correct me if I am wrong.

If so, I want nothing to do with this feral organisation and hope it fails here in Australia.
It is, after all, based on emotionalism which is the antithesis of my own personal manifesto. 8)

In summary:

Self defense is evil.

Please correct me if I am wrong.



RushKing
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30 May 2019, 8:53 pm

Citizens don't have a moral obligation to let fascists organize in their own communities.

Just like Pepe doesn't have a moral obligation to let me stay and harass him inside his own room.



sly279
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30 May 2019, 11:50 pm

Pepe wrote:
In summary:
It seems to me that part of Antifa's manifesto is as follows: "Meet violence with violence."
Please correct me if I am wrong.

If so, I want nothing to do with this feral organisation and hope it fails here in Australia.
It is, after all, based on emotionalism which is the antithesis of my own personal manifesto. 8)

Except most of the time they’re the ones starting violence causing others to defend against them.


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funeralxempire
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31 May 2019, 12:32 am

sly279 wrote:
Pepe wrote:
In summary:
It seems to me that part of Antifa's manifesto is as follows: "Meet violence with violence."
Please correct me if I am wrong.

If so, I want nothing to do with this feral organisation and hope it fails here in Australia.
It is, after all, based on emotionalism which is the antithesis of my own personal manifesto. 8)

Except most of the time they’re the ones starting violence causing others to defend against them.


I know that's what the fascists claim, but they're no more honest with that claim then the majority of their claims. Considering the alt-right are open and proud of their dishonesty and disconnect from reality, I'm not sure why a reasonable person would ever start with the assumption that they're telling the truth.


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31 May 2019, 10:17 pm

RushKing wrote:
Pepe wrote:
In summary:
It seems to me that part of Antifa's manifesto is as follows: "Meet violence with violence."
Please correct me if I am wrong.

If so, I want nothing to do with this feral organisation and hope it fails here in Australia.
It is, after all, based on emotionalism which is the antithesis of my own personal manifesto. 8)

In summary:

Self defense is evil.

Please correct me if I am wrong.


Once again.
Please read my lips:
The situation here in Australia is different to that of Amerika.

Here in Australia, conservatives (not the alt right) need protection from the far left rather than those who are left-wing needing protection from the far right, based on what I have seen on the Australian media.

I am Australian.
I don't what Antifa to flourish here.

Edit: I am getting the impression you are a member of Antifa, or at least actively support them. 8O


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Laughter is the best medicine. Age-appropriate behaviour is an arbitrary NT social construct.
Don't tell me white lies. Gaslight me at your peril. Don't give me your bad attitude.
If I'm so bad, pass me by. ;)


And one more thing,




Truth may be inconvenient but it is never politically incorrect...The Oracle of Truth has spoken...8)


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08 Jul 2019, 2:13 pm

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The_Walrus
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08 Jul 2019, 3:52 pm

Pepe wrote:
RushKing wrote:
Pepe wrote:
In summary:
It seems to me that part of Antifa's manifesto is as follows: "Meet violence with violence."
Please correct me if I am wrong.

If so, I want nothing to do with this feral organisation and hope it fails here in Australia.
It is, after all, based on emotionalism which is the antithesis of my own personal manifesto. 8)

In summary:

Self defense is evil.

Please correct me if I am wrong.


Once again.
Please read my lips:
The situation here in Australia is different to that of Amerika.

Here in Australia, conservatives (not the alt right) need protection from the far left rather than those who are left-wing needing protection from the far right, based on what I have seen on the Australian media.

I am Australian.
I don't what Antifa to flourish here.

Edit: I am getting the impression you are a member of Antifa, or at least actively support them. 8O

The situations in America and Australia are quite similar. Both countries have an active far right with a degree of political traction, although in Australia it is fractured across six minor parties who between them get about 10% of the vote (it seems unreasonable to count the Liberal/National joint ticket, particularly as the National Party seem the least bananas of the right-wing parties). In America there is a strong left-wing streak in the Democratic Party and certainly it is evident in the grassroots. There is also a Green Party who are occasionally capable of coming fourth in a two-horse race.

The Australian Greens are more successful than the American Greens, but are also pacifists. Then the only other left-of-centre party to get more than 0.5% of the vote is the Labor Party, and they're presently very much a centrist party - Bill Shorten is a milquetoast social democrat, not a firebrand radical.

Are there any left-wing groups in Australia comparable to the Antipodean Resistance, the True Blue Crew, Reclaim Australia, the United Patriots Front, National Action, or the Soldiers of Odin? Any Australian Marxists heading over to New Zealand to commit terrorist attacks? Hell, is there even a left-wing equivalent to the Q Society or the Yellow Vest Alliance?



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08 Jul 2019, 10:18 pm

If someone has such a generous schedule that they can drop everything to show up for all demonstrations, they are not to be feared. If they can afford to risk life and limb, to participate in activities which may result in grievous injury, they are not to be feared. This goes for both sides. This is not the wild west anymore. The ones who think it still is just end up six feet under.

The real threats are not in the streets, at demonstrations, etc...

They are safe, inside. And they have nothing but silent contempt. So, y'all keep boxing each others ears while they forget your names (if they ever knew them in the first place).


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