Ebenezer Scrooge is the victim in ACC, not the villian.

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thinkinginpictures
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14 May 2019, 1:11 pm

There are several things to this story:

First off, you may dislike giving charity to the poor (or paying higher taxes) for the welfare of the poor and disadvantaged, simply because:

A: You are rich, and of course you don't want to give money away that means you have to lower your standard of living.

B: You believe you are a "billionaire in the waiting" - similar to the first, but you could be wrong about that in your own future.

If you are poor/disadvantaged and your only chance of survival is charity or welfare (tax) money, you'd be a grumpy man if YOU had to obey all sorts of requirements taking away your personal freedom, just to make you survive or keep yourself away from having to live and sleep in the streets.

What I'm trying to say is that the view on Scrooge is all about your current or estimated future position in society.
I call that hypocrisy.

I'm not a fan of charity myself. I never give charity money to the beggars or homeless.
I never support charity organisations. But what I do is to vote for certain political parties who wants to raise the taxes, even if that means I'll have to pay more taxes as well, in order to spend more on welfare - to help people not becoming homeless in the first place and to lower the requirements of those receiving welfare benefits.

If you're going to give people a chance, 1 dollar to a homeless is not going to do any difference anyway.
What makes a difference is organized leadership, in what is known as State & Government.

It's like all those who say they don't eat meat to save the Earth from climate changes. It's not going to help one bit. What you need is internationally organized climate policies.



shlaifu
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14 May 2019, 3:35 pm

have you considered looking at the time and place Dickens was writing in and about?

Dickens is a critic of capitalism, because he saw unfettered laissez-faire capitalism emerge all around him.
Child labour, eversything covered in soot from smoke stacks, the working class living in abject poverty - these weren't inventions of Dickens'.

Reading Dickens, you won't necessarily understand late 20th century America, but you should turn towards iPhone factories in China or the textile industry in Bangladesh.

And maybe, maybe, be aware of how that is not fictional, and really how things went down in the past whenever there were no institutions to effectively reign in profit-seeking.


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naturalplastic
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14 May 2019, 6:59 pm

In a Christmas Carol Dickens was presaging both Marx, and Freud.

On one hand the story is about class struggle in Victorian England in the early days of the Industrial Revolution. The same thing Marx and Engels wrote about.

But more important: the story is also about how Scrooge became Scrooge. The ghosts force him to go into his past and explore formative events in his life - in essence- the ghosts act like modern psychotherapists.



shlaifu
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14 May 2019, 7:10 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
In a Christmas Carol Dickens was presaging both Marx, and Freud.

On one hand the story is about class struggle in Victorian England in the early days of the Industrial Revolution. The same thing Marx and Engels wrote about.

But more important: the story is also about how Scrooge became Scrooge. The ghosts force him to go into his past and explore formative events in his life - in essence- the ghosts act like modern psychotherapists.


Wow. Yeah. You're right.
I have only recently read Freud and understood that he was the first to explicitly state that childhood development forms adult personality - but you're right that Dickens did sort of a similar thing here (though not so much childhood development, but still).
Thanks


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ollychan
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14 May 2019, 7:53 pm

?

well i dont know about you but we are dealing with a fall of rome or athens scenario here in america




from faraway nobody knows who managed america like this

Image


a closer look at this hideous juggernaut nobody knows who managed america like this

Image


an even closer look nobody knows who managed america like this it seems all it produces is massive amount of historical garbage


Image


when will the scourge come to an end ??



MrLucky
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14 May 2019, 9:07 pm

ThePerfectionist wrote:
ollychan wrote:
"there are two types of killing.. the implicit, business type may belong to the latter type .. "

Image


Image[/quote

This picture and sentiment does not accurately depict capitalism. Those men can always quit if they want to and find a less difficult job (believe me there are many) and if they cannot then it is slavery and not capitalism, which is a voluntary endeavor.

Yeah, the first picture is more like big business entwined with big government, I call them "Big Governess." In some ways, it can be ALMOST as bad a pure socialism, but nothing is perfect. Still, I'd take capitalism above all, as imperfectly can be at times, most other systems are worse in my opinion. Nothing is perfect either.

I am poor, I do not make a lot of money.... but I personally have a job at a private business that I am paid to do and I can say that it definitely does not "implicitly kill" me, but rather explicitly improve my life. If you want to see true implicit killing, look at a Venezuela and North Korea; places that neo-Marxist would have us be more like.



ollychan
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14 May 2019, 11:39 pm

MrLucky wrote:
ThePerfectionist wrote:
ollychan wrote:
"there are two types of killing.. the implicit, business type may belong to the latter type .. "

Image


Image[/quote

This picture and sentiment does not accurately depict capitalism. Those men can always quit if they want to and find a less difficult job (believe me there are many) and if they cannot then it is slavery and not capitalism, which is a voluntary endeavor.

Yeah, the first picture is more like big business entwined with big government, I call them "Big Governess." In some ways, it can be ALMOST as bad a pure socialism, but nothing is perfect. Still, I'd take capitalism above all, as imperfectly can be at times, most other systems are worse in my opinion. Nothing is perfect either.

I am poor, I do not make a lot of money.... but I personally have a job at a private business that I am paid to do and I can say that it definitely does not "implicitly kill" me, but rather explicitly improve my life. If you want to see true implicit killing, look at a Venezuela and North Korea; places that neo-Marxist would have us be more like.





looks fun there



ollychan
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14 May 2019, 11:46 pm

im just arguing for arguings sake. i dont believe what i said.



MrLucky
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15 May 2019, 10:45 pm

ollychan wrote:
im just arguing for arguings sake. i dont believe what i said.


I see what you mean but I'll pass,heck, I can do the same thing at the waterpark in Pittsburgh.

Well, I should comment on the subject of the thread since we kind of hijacked it, as to Mr. Scrooge, yeah, I did not agree with Scrooge in the beginning, but I've always said that people do have the right to be jerks.