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TheRevengeofTW1ZTY
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10 Jun 2019, 7:14 pm

madbutnotmad wrote:
Several years ago i studiously studied the historical origins of Christianity and the Bible, during an extremely difficult time in my life where i was being force converted to become a Jehovah Witness slave (which i opted out after studying extensively from various versions of the faith that is now known as Christianity).

From what i can remember the origins of the concept Hell developed out of Rabbinic scriptures that referenced an actual place just outside of what is now known as Jerusalem called Gehenna.

Gehenna, during the time of writing of these books in the Bible was basically a place where people would
take their rubbish to dump and burn. The place was naturally high in sulphur, so when the rubbish burnt
it would burn red or even white hot.

Now if you think about Mosaic law, i.e. the 10 Commandments and then the lesser laws found in the rest of Leviticus.
You will easily find out what the punishment for breaking many of God's laws.

Yep, the punishment was in essence death. So I think it would be a fair assumption to make that in scripture, when Gehenna was referenced for those who were evil, it basically meant that the evil would end up being thrown on the rubbish tip to burn for ever.

So. the beginnings of the concept of Hell, came from a real place, but there was nothing imaginary or otherworldly about it. It was a very real place on earth.

I would guess that the modern concept of hell, along with the sophisticated developed personality that we now call the devil or Satan also developed later on after the Jewish people came more and more into contact with other cultures and religious beliefs.

Apparently, the word Hell was never originally used in the old or new testament, but only became popular later on, around 1200 AD.

a history of hell

personally i am agnostic but lean towards Buddhism than anything else.
I can understand why Buddhists would refer to mind states as Hell,
i am not so sure about the many planes or hell worlds.

I guess I will have to wait and see in my next life.



That's very interesting to know! I think I heard about the burning rubbish pit thing before. I forgot about it. :)

I consider myself an agnostic omnist. I believe every religion has some truth to it, but it's all so confusing and we'll probably never know what is truth and what is fiction. :study:


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kraftiekortie
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10 Jun 2019, 7:17 pm

You should look up the Baha'i faith. They believe in the "truth" of all religions.



TheRevengeofTW1ZTY
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10 Jun 2019, 7:24 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
You should look up the Baha'i faith. They believe in the "truth" of all religions.

I think some wiccans do too. They believe every male deity is the Horned God of the Forest, and every female deity is the Triple Moon Goddess. Some even believe the God of the abrahamic religions is really just one of the many faces of The Horned God.

But wicca is a very complex religion and hard to understand. Most self-proclaimed wiccans really don't understand their own religion (like the ones who use their pets as familiars or think that the Rule of Three is the same as karma).

Sadly like Voodoo, Wicca has been influenced by Hollywood and made out to be something it is not.

I wanted to learn more about wicca but it's hard to find true wiccans anymore and not wannabe witches who watch too many Harry Potter movies.


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kraftiekortie
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10 Jun 2019, 7:30 pm

There are many "faiths" which are similar to voodoo.

Voodoo is actually called "Vodun," in its "purest" form. The origin is Dahomey (now Benin), West Africa.



TheRevengeofTW1ZTY
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10 Jun 2019, 7:37 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
There are many "faiths" which are similar to voodoo.

Voodoo is actually called "Vodun," in its "purest" form. The origin is Dahomey (now Benin), West Africa.


Is Hoodoo more a religion or just a practice? I know it originated in the American South and was practiced by African slaves during days of slavery. People often confuse it with Voodoo but they're actually different.

The movie "The Skeleton Key" claimed it was not a religion and more of a type of folkmagic but I don't trust movies to tell me the truth.

I do know it's a combination of both African and Christian practices. Hoodoo practioners actually use pages from the bible in their conjuring.

Sorrt for getting off topic again. :oops: But this is an interesting discussion! :)


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Misslizard
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10 Jun 2019, 7:39 pm

Not sure if this was mentioned but Hell means grave(sheol)in Hebrew.


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kraftiekortie
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10 Jun 2019, 7:41 pm

Hoodoo is "African-American traditional folk magic."



TheRevengeofTW1ZTY
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10 Jun 2019, 7:48 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
Hoodoo is "African-American traditional folk magic."

Oki doki then. :)

The tour guide from New Orleans said that people who practice it were offended by The Skeleton Key because it got a lot of facts about Hoodoo wrong.

Much like The Craft did with wicca.


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10 Jun 2019, 7:52 pm

Misslizard wrote:
Not sure if this was mentioned but Hell means grave(sheol)in Hebrew.


She’ol is in the OT which means “grave” but Hell isn’t. Christians superimposed their notion of Hell into the OT later on.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 says that the “dead know nothing.”

Psalms 146:4 says something similar.


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kraftiekortie
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10 Jun 2019, 7:56 pm

My wife's son was in a religion known either as "Shango" or "Orisha."

The Spiritual Baptists in the West Indies syncretize Christianity with various African religions, including "Orisha."

"Orisha" is a religion of the Yorubas in Nigeria. "Shango" is one of the gods. There are times when it seems like he is one of the "main" gods.

Spiritual Baptists syncretize Shango with either Saint Jerome or Saint Barbara.



Last edited by kraftiekortie on 10 Jun 2019, 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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10 Jun 2019, 7:59 pm

TheRevengeofTW1ZTY wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
You should look up the Baha'i faith. They believe in the "truth" of all religions.

I think some wiccans do too. They believe every male deity is the Horned God of the Forest, and every female deity is the Triple Moon Goddess. Some even believe the God of the abrahamic religions is really just one of the many faces of The Horned God.

But wicca is a very complex religion and hard to understand. Most self-proclaimed wiccans really don't understand their own religion (like the ones who use their pets as familiars or think that the Rule of Three is the same as karma).

Sadly like Voodoo, Wicca has been influenced by Hollywood and made out to be something it is not.

I wanted to learn more about wicca but it's hard to find true wiccans anymore and not wannabe witches who watch too many Harry Potter movies.


I’d enjoy worshipping a moon goddess.

It’d be a pleasant change.


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TheRevengeofTW1ZTY
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10 Jun 2019, 8:08 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
TheRevengeofTW1ZTY wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
You should look up the Baha'i faith. They believe in the "truth" of all religions.

I think some wiccans do too. They believe every male deity is the Horned God of the Forest, and every female deity is the Triple Moon Goddess. Some even believe the God of the abrahamic religions is really just one of the many faces of The Horned God.

But wicca is a very complex religion and hard to understand. Most self-proclaimed wiccans really don't understand their own religion (like the ones who use their pets as familiars or think that the Rule of Three is the same as karma).

Sadly like Voodoo, Wicca has been influenced by Hollywood and made out to be something it is not.

I wanted to learn more about wicca but it's hard to find true wiccans anymore and not wannabe witches who watch too many Harry Potter movies.


I’d enjoy worshipping a moon goddess.

It’d be a pleasant change.


I bet you would love wicca. :) It's kind of a matriarchal religion (not sure if that's the right term?) with a lot of female practioners (and males too). They have some very interesting and open minded beliefs and it's a religion that respects and treasures nature.

But as I said there are many wannabe wiccans who don't understand what the religion is really about. Basically people who watch too much TV about witches. :(

I'd recommend reading books like "Raymond Buckland's Complete Book of Witchcraft" or anything by James Gardener (the man who helped find the religion in the 1950's).


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TwilightPrincess
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10 Jun 2019, 8:16 pm

TheRevengeofTW1ZTY wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
TheRevengeofTW1ZTY wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
You should look up the Baha'i faith. They believe in the "truth" of all religions.

I think some wiccans do too. They believe every male deity is the Horned God of the Forest, and every female deity is the Triple Moon Goddess. Some even believe the God of the abrahamic religions is really just one of the many faces of The Horned God.

But wicca is a very complex religion and hard to understand. Most self-proclaimed wiccans really don't understand their own religion (like the ones who use their pets as familiars or think that the Rule of Three is the same as karma).

Sadly like Voodoo, Wicca has been influenced by Hollywood and made out to be something it is not.

I wanted to learn more about wicca but it's hard to find true wiccans anymore and not wannabe witches who watch too many Harry Potter movies.


I’d enjoy worshipping a moon goddess.

It’d be a pleasant change.


I bet you would love wicca. :) It's kind of a matriarchal religion (not sure if that's the right term?) with a lot of female practioners (and males too). They have some very interesting and open minded beliefs and it's a religion that respects and treasures nature.

But as I said there are many wannabe wiccans who don't understand what the religion is really about. Basically people who watch too much TV about witches. :(

I'd recommend reading books like "Raymond Buckland's Complete Book of Witchcraft" or anything by James Gardener (the man who helped find the religion in the 1950's).


I do like learning about different religions and cultures. It fascinates me.


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TwilightPrincess
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10 Jun 2019, 8:18 pm

I was just thinking about how extreme it is to tell someone to “go to Hell.”

I’ve never said that to anyone, but you probably couldn’t say anything much worse than wishing someone eternal torment.


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TheRevengeofTW1ZTY
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10 Jun 2019, 8:28 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
I was just thinking about how extreme it is to tell someone to “go to Hell.”

I’ve never said that to anyone, but you probably couldn’t say anything much worse than wishing someone eternal torment.

I agree. And what kind of merciful Father sends his children into a burnpit to be cooked for all eternity for misbehaving? :(


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10 Jun 2019, 8:31 pm

TheRevengeofTW1ZTY wrote:
Personally I believe in either of these two theories:

1. There is no actual Hell and we are all headed to the same place after we die.

2. The world we live in now actually IS the true Hell.

Thoughts? :)


The concept of hell was introduced primarily as a means of intimidation and manipulation.
It was designed to force social harmony and to maintain the authority of the established religious power base through brutal psychological abuse.
It was also a concept which facilitated emotional lust for revenge since there are just some incidences where death is just not enough. 8O :mrgreen:

The interesting unintended consequence is that its inception inspired...err...unintended consequences.
To counter the temptation to suicide to avoid possible eternal damnation, the Catholic religion at least, snookered this option by inducting "suicide" into the hall of mortal sins, which in turn would fast track the individual into, you guessed it, eternal damnation.
Almost a catch 22 situation. EEP! 8O

"What a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive."
For many hundreds of years, the psychological abuse continued in order to intimidate the sheeple into behaving themselves.
Unfortunately, education eventually...errr...educated the great unwashed and forced the eventual revelation by Pope Francis to confess that the concept of "hell" was simply an "artist's interpretation".
Quote:
Social media has been going crazy with reports that Pope Francis has denied the existence of hell. Even some mainstream media have picked up the story supposedly based on an interview by an Italian journalist. https://www.ncronline.org/news/opinion/ ... s-and-hell


Let us forget and forgive how the collective billions of tortured souls believed in the "wisdom", moral and intellectual "integrity" of religious organisations. <guffaw> :lmao:

Damn and damnation!.
I'm sure to go to hell for posting this...err...post. :twisted: :mrgreen: