Christianity and patriotism

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I watched a passion scene on youtube, and it was really painful to watch, I couldn't stand it for more than half a monute and even that was difficult. But then, after closing off the screen, I found a way to make myself better: I reminded myself of all the wars they fought on the name of Christ. So, at the end of a day, Jesus wasn't beaten up: far from it. Maybe that is why Christians are patriotic: without something like patriotism to spice things up, it would be very difficult not to feel complete pity for Jesus?

In the middle ages the connection to cruciifixion was obvious: most racism was dirrected at the Jews, and the purported reason was that they were Christ killers. Nowdays it is less obvious: what do blacks or Mexicans have to do with killing Jesus? And then you have Christian Zionism, which is the "opposite" of antisemitism. But the less direct link to cruciifixion is still there: in order to prove that Jesus isn't beaten up, you want to prove that He can fight. Fine, he isn't fighting against his original murderers any more, but he got to fight "somebody" in order to prove he is still a man. And that's why -- instead of fighting Jews -- he fights blacks, Mexicans or even Palestinians.

And, in some ways, it makes sense. Since today's Jews weren't even born back then, they aren't the ones that killed him anyway. In fact, none of the people living today did. But Jesus is supposedly still alive, yet we don't see him. So what can he do to prove he is alive? That's why we need enemies other than his original killers to do that. But then we have to make something up. Either we can make up that sin of crucifixion passes genetically and target Jews. Or else we can think of something completely different, such as drugs, for which we can find some other group of people to blame -- such as blacks or Mexicans or Palestinians. No matter which option we take, it helps us prove to ourselves that Jesus can still fight -- and, therefore, still alive.

To help you see my point, think of the time when your loved one passed away and he said he will live in your heart. Did it make you feel better? I don't know about you -- but in my case it only makes me cry even harder. So maybe if it wasn't for all those wars and prejudices in the name of Christianity, my reaction to "Jesus is still living in my heart" would have been quite similar: I would only feel even more pity and want to cry even more. But this war/prejudice context is what made me no longer want to cry.

I know it sounds horrible, but to me, as a Christian, it can be helpful: it sure helped me recover from watching a passion scene.

Americans are suposedly supposed to take pride in their country AND trust in God (we are a dominantly Christian country).

...isn't pride one of the deadly sins? Just sayin.

Not just Americans. I was born in Russia and came to US at 14, so I know both countries. In Russia the Russian patriotism is also very much linked to the cross. So when you have a conflict between Russia and US, it's quite ironic since each side thinks they are fighting in the name of Christ.

A Comparison of Patriotism vs. Nationalism:

Patriotism: "My country can always do better."
Nationalism: "My country is already the best."

Patriotism: "My country, right or wrong!"
Nationalism: "My country; love it or leave it!"

Patriotism: A sense of personal identification with the country.
Nationalism: A sense of personal identification with the government.

Patriotism: Critical of the country whenever necessary.
Nationalism: Silences the critics whenever possible.

Patriotism: Equality, Liberty, and Justice for All.
Nationalism: Equality, Liberty, and Justice for the Privileged Few.

Patriotism: Fighting Nazis.
Nationalism: Being Nazis.

Patriotism: Freedom of Press, Speech, and Peaceful Assembly.
Nationalism: Propaganda, Censorship, and Harassment.

Patriotism: Government by consent of the governed.
Nationalism: Government by force and decree of those who govern.

Patriotism: Hiring and promotion based solely on ability.
Nationalism: Hiring and promotion based on race and gender.

Patriotism: Learning from our history and the history of others.
Nationalism: Teaching our version of history to others.

Patriotism: Pride in who you are.
Nationalism: Pride in who you are not.

Patriotism: Special concern for the well-being of the citizenry.
Nationalism: Special concern for the well-being of the leadership.

Patriotism: Upholding the right of others to disagree with authority.
Nationalism: Equating disagreement with treachery, disloyalty, and moral decay.

Patriotism: Willingness to sacrifice oneself to promote the country's good.
Nationalism: Willingness to sacrifice others to promote one's own self-interest.

Our country's problems aren't as much about Left vs. Right as they are about Patriotism vs. Nationalism.

Sounds like me and the Georgia thing.

Nice that you brought it up. Now let me point out one thing: the purported nationalists claim that they very much ARE those things they are proud of. So IF they are right THEN -- by your definition -- they would be patriots rather than nationalists. Well, I said if/then for a reason: maybe they aren't those things and just delusional, and then they would be nationalists. But since we are talking about facts here -- are they what they claim to be or are they not -- then the best way to find out facts is to have a logical discussion. But you don't let them have a logical discussion: you just shut them up by calling them racist. Well, why do you do that? If they are wrong you will still be able to prove them wrong after they state their case. But what if there is a tiny-tiny chance that they have a point and you are just missing something? Wouldn't it be a good thing to find out what you are missing? Or if you are that sure you aren't missing anything, then what are you afraid of?

Do you actually believe this Fnord or do you see it for what it is?

I find it ironic how the Christians, Muslims, and Jewish are often killing each other in wars when technically they all believe in the same God. They just have different rules that define what "God" is.

Well, I guess in this case they are making a case that the other religions are wrong and why. But in case of Russia vs America they can't do it since they are both Christians. Well, I guess they "could": in particular, Russia are Orthodox and Americans are Protestant. But they don't bother bringing this up. Instead, they are just "forgetting" that the other side is Christian altogether. And thats what I find quite puzzling.

That's another good point. Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox are all Christians but they disagree about their beliefs and have been killing each other for centuries too.

One has to ask himself: Why?

Well, at least during the Protestant Reformation they were explicit about why: protestants were pointing false beliefs of Catholics and vice versa. I just wish it was as open and honest as it used to be. If Americans were say "lets go after Orthodox, Russians are Orthodox they are our enemies" or if Russians were to say "Lets go after Protestants, Americans are Protestants, they are our enemies", I would have said "great". But they aren't saying it. Not at all. Rather, Americans are saying "Christian America" -- thus forgetting that Christianity even existed anywhere else -- and Russians are saying "Christian Russia" -- again forgetting Christianity existed anywhere else. But why are they forgetting so much? Did they truly not hear anything? Are they assuming Jesus was born in Russia or in America respectively? If they know that Christianity exists at places outside their respective countries -- why not openly acknowledge it, and then address it by explaining why that other form of Christianity wrong -- just like it was done during Protestant reformation? You see, I am Christian myself, and I enjoy a good debate. But all this evasiveness and forgetfulness is what drives me crazy.

I don't think I should speak for Russia, but as an American myself I can honestly say I've noticed we are a very "ethnocentric" nation. Americans tend to think everything in the world is about them and their own beliefs because of their big inflated egos and their materialistic self-focused culture that borders on narcissism.

Well, I agree with HALF of what you just said. But then there is the other half that Americans think they are the most racist nation in the world -- which isn't true either. I think its more about lack of education rather than inflated ego. If you weren't taught in school about any countries other than US, then OF COURSE both everything good and everything bad will be about US, cause you don't know any better.

One thing quite telling is that, in Russia, they learn world history every single grade, and they learn Russian history in parallel to world history. But in America they only do one year of world history (the 9-th grade) and American history all four years of high school (well I don't know about grades 1-8 since I came to the US when I started high school). Also Russian maps draw the whole world but in US you have a lot of maps that draw just the US. I think that is the reason behind all that, or at least a big part of it.

I think you're right, American education isn't that great. I heard we are behind other developed countries.

I guess in a way we border more on being isolationists?

Well, if they were isolationists they won't be starting all those wars. But then again, if you look at some patriotic groups within US they are opposed to wars for that exact reason -- they are citing American forefathers that talk about "no foreign entanglements". But then there are other groups of Americans that do want wars. So it is quite ironic about the way some Americans want wars, yet they don't even know where to locate on the map the countries they want to fight.

I know it to be true.