Why aren't whites told to go back where they came from?

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Kraichgauer
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20 Jul 2019, 5:24 pm

CockneyRebel wrote:
Irish immigrants were told to go back to Ireland when they came to North America in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. I'm sure that Germans were told to go back to Germany after WWI and WWII for a short period of between 5 and 10 years. I'm sure that a lot of Russians have been told to go back to Russia many times. However, I do agree that was a terrible mistake that Trump made telling coloured people and refugees to go back to where they came from. That's one of the few things that I disagree with him about.


Being of largely German extraction, I can attest to how German Americans during WWI were suddenly regarded with suspicion and hostility to the point where the President, Woodrow Wilson, voiced such prejudice, the use of the German language in public had been forbidden by law, and was often accompanied by violence and even murder. It was thankfully different during WWII, where despite the fact that recent German immigrants had been arrested and even deported for Nazi sympathies, there had been little question about the loyalty of German Americans with roots in this country.


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20 Jul 2019, 5:47 pm

XFilesGeek wrote:
People don't tell whites to go back "where they came from" because Natives are routinely ignored and belittled.


Exactly! I often hear fake outrage when non-whites make comments about whites in the media. The outrage is invariably out of proportion to reality; white folk almost all feel what non-whites say doesn't matter.



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20 Jul 2019, 5:51 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Being of largely German extraction, I can attest to how German Americans during WWI were suddenly regarded with suspicion and hostility to the point where the President, Woodrow Wilson, voiced such prejudice, the use of the German language in public had been forbidden by law, and was often accompanied by violence and even murder. It was thankfully different during WWII, where despite the fact that recent German immigrants had been arrested and even deported for Nazi sympathies, there had been little question about the loyalty of German Americans with roots in this country.


Yes we interned Germans in WWI and WW2 here in Australia as well. The irony is that the Germans living in Australia were highly educated and skilled migrants who would have despised the expansionist policies of Kaiser Wilhelm and Hitler.



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20 Jul 2019, 6:12 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
All through American history Whites were told that...by other Whites...here in America.

Ben Franklin was convinced that German settlers of Pennsylvania "would NEVER assimilate".

In the 1840's the Irish were told to go back to Ireland during the wave of Irish refugees from the Potato famine.

In the late Nineteenth and early Twentieth Centuries, during the huge wave of Ellis Island era Immigrants from southern and eastern Europe, those immigrants were told to go back to Poland and Italy by members of the core population of White Anglo Saxon Protestants native born Americans.

It was only in the 21st century a few years ago that the KKK finally allowed Catholics to join. Religion isn't just religion. Religion is tied to ethnicity. So by implication the KKK is finnally inviting Micks, Wops/Dagos, and Pollocks, to join its ranks.

So for most of US history Whites were racist against other Whites (ie folks from the wrong part of Europe).

BUT...White racists are starting to drop their racism against other Whites. I guess that's.... progress! :)

They were bigots, but probably not racists since that would mean thinking of themselves as part of an inferior race.


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20 Jul 2019, 8:16 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
All through American history Whites were told that...by other Whites...here in America.

Ben Franklin was convinced that German settlers of Pennsylvania "would NEVER assimilate".

In the 1840's the Irish were told to go back to Ireland during the wave of Irish refugees from the Potato famine.

In the late Nineteenth and early Twentieth Centuries, during the huge wave of Ellis Island era Immigrants from southern and eastern Europe, those immigrants were told to go back to Poland and Italy by members of the core population of White Anglo Saxon Protestants native born Americans.

It was only in the 21st century a few years ago that the KKK finally allowed Catholics to join. Religion isn't just religion. Religion is tied to ethnicity. So by implication the KKK is finnally inviting Micks, Wops/Dagos, and Pollocks, to join its ranks.

So for most of US history Whites were racist against other Whites (ie folks from the wrong part of Europe).

BUT...White racists are starting to drop their racism against other Whites. I guess that's.... progress! :)

They were bigots, but probably not racists since that would mean thinking of themselves as part of an inferior race.


WTF are you talking about?
First off you must have made a typo and meant "think of the other as being of an inferior race", or you meant "think of themselves as a superior race".

Second they often did view other nationalities as being inferior due to ancestry (ie its "racism").



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20 Jul 2019, 9:33 pm

Whites can be prejudiced towards other Whites.An elderly relative that was English/German first generation American talked about the Slovaks that lives down the road when she was a child.It was obvious from the conversation that neither of her parents thought the Slovaks were equal to them.Like you might hire them to do farm work but not invite to tea.
Also Black folks can be bigoted to other Black people.Lighter skinned sometimes look down on darker skin.


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20 Jul 2019, 9:41 pm

Misslizard wrote:
Whites can be prejudiced towards other Whites.An elderly relative that was English/German first generation American talked about the Slovaks that lives down the road when she was a child.It was obvious from the conversation that neither of her parents thought the Slovaks were equal to them.Like you might hire them to do farm work but not invite to tea.
Also Black folks can be bigoted to other Black people.Lighter skinned sometimes look down on darker skin.


My dad had told me how when our Palatine German ancestors had lived in the Black Sea German colonies in Russia, they had held the ethnic Russians in utter contempt, and vice versa.


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20 Jul 2019, 9:50 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Whites can be prejudiced towards other Whites.An elderly relative that was English/German first generation American talked about the Slovaks that lives down the road when she was a child.It was obvious from the conversation that neither of her parents thought the Slovaks were equal to them.Like you might hire them to do farm work but not invite to tea.
Also Black folks can be bigoted to other Black people.Lighter skinned sometimes look down on darker skin.


My dad had told me how when our Palatine German ancestors had lived in the Black Sea German colonies in Russia, they had held the ethnic Russians in utter contempt, and vice versa.

When my daughter traveled in Mexico and Guatemala she said that the Mexicans told her don’t go to Guatemala you’ll get killed, then the Guatemalans said the same thing about the Mexicans.


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20 Jul 2019, 10:48 pm

KT67 wrote:
(I'm well aware that if white people act neutrally they can't specifically tell the difference between one hard C Celt and another so it's not 100% the same thing, I still don't think telling people to go home to the country of their ethnic origin is ok though and I'm not moderating my behaviour based on idiots)

First time:
I was in Boots having a private conversation about Ireland. This guy turns around and stands up straight over me and bellows 'why don't you go home' in this weird slow voice he hadn't been using before and which was creepy. I told him to f off. Hypocrite, I was in my home town and judging on his accent he wasn't. I continue shopping all around the town centre, I must have taken hours on it. When I'm done, a voice comes out of nowhere as I'm getting into my car and he yells 'Fenian scum' at me.

Second time:
I was in a shopping centre in my Celtic kit and this guy comes up close to me and whispers 'Famine's over scum go home'. I ignore him and carry on with what I'm doing. I go to the food court. Then I come down the escalator. He's there waiting for me. He tells me in a normal voice 'Famine's well over scum, time to go home'. Then I continued what I was doing. As I was leaving the store he looked me up and down and said 'Fenian'.

The second time this happened was 8 days ago so I'm def talking about things which still happen.

It just doesn't happen in the States cos the States is basically a melting pot as far as white identity is concerned.

Thing is apart from the Irish healthcare system being bad, if I was deported I wouldn't mind it. I like being of Irish descent. The Irish Scot who moans most about this is Phil Mac Giolla Bhain which is ironic cos he did what they said and went back to Donegal...


I love this response. So good to get a European take on this. Here in the states you'd be hard pressed to find stuff like that these days, but if you're Irish or Polish in the UK you're an easy target.
The ironic thing is I guarantee you those people are the same far righters who go on and on about "white solidarity" only for them to spit on anyone of Celtic or Slavic or Southern European descent the moment they don't have non-whites to push around.
My ancestors came mostly (?) from Ireland and what is now Germany and we had to deal with this same anti immigrant bs in the states. How quickly we forget.


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Δυνατὰ δὲ οἱ προύχοντες πράσσουσι καὶ οἱ ἀσθενεῖς ξυγχωροῦσιν.
Those with power do what their power permits, and the weak can only acquiesce.

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Last edited by roronoa79 on 20 Jul 2019, 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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20 Jul 2019, 10:57 pm

DeepHour wrote:
roronoa79 wrote:
....... theyd have to endure the society-destroying horrors of universal healthcare, accessible higher education, and openly socialist political parties.


Not too sure about the last bit. The Centre-Left parties in most European countries often have 'Socialist' somewhere in their names, but generally support largely capitalistic systems and have little appetite to extend (or even maintain, in some cases) public ownership. The last Labour government (theoretically committed to some form of socialism) in Britain lasted 13 years, and they fully supported the extensively privatized economy that was imposed under Margaret Thatcher in the 1980s, and extended by her successor in the 90s.

Even so most of them are a bit to the left of the US Democratic Party, though that probably doesn't take much doing.


This is sadly very true. So many nominally socialist parties are just capitalist social democrats, although there are exceptions. Still, US conservatives continue to believe that social democratic policies inevitably lead to Stalinist purges and gulags.
And the US is of course at least partially to blame for the stagnation of leftist politics in Europe, bc after 1945 you'd better not try to so much as form a governing coalition with a truly communist or socialist party unless you don't mind running the risk of losing American aid and investment.


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Δυνατὰ δὲ οἱ προύχοντες πράσσουσι καὶ οἱ ἀσθενεῖς ξυγχωροῦσιν.
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roronoa79
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20 Jul 2019, 11:06 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
CockneyRebel wrote:
Irish immigrants were told to go back to Ireland when they came to North America in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. I'm sure that Germans were told to go back to Germany after WWI and WWII for a short period of between 5 and 10 years. I'm sure that a lot of Russians have been told to go back to Russia many times. However, I do agree that was a terrible mistake that Trump made telling coloured people and refugees to go back to where they came from. That's one of the few things that I disagree with him about.


Being of largely German extraction, I can attest to how German Americans during WWI were suddenly regarded with suspicion and hostility to the point where the President, Woodrow Wilson, voiced such prejudice, the use of the German language in public had been forbidden by law, and was often accompanied by violence and even murder. It was thankfully different during WWII, where despite the fact that recent German immigrants had been arrested and even deported for Nazi sympathies, there had been little question about the loyalty of German Americans with roots in this country.


People forget all about this given how much worse Japanese Americans were treated in WWII. But absolutely, things we bad enough after the first world war but after the second you'd better not openly express your German heritage. You'd better be an English speaking American before you're a disgusting Kraut.
I chose to learn German over Spanish or French in middle school bc I wanted to get more in touch with that part of my heritage, and I was so disappointed once i learned how vibrant the German American community was here in Indiana before the world wars. My school's German program was a vestige of that time in the early 20th century and was discontinued just a few years after I graduated. How ironic that European Germans with superiority complexes indirectly caused so many member of the German diaspora to distance themselves from their heritage.


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Δυνατὰ δὲ οἱ προύχοντες πράσσουσι καὶ οἱ ἀσθενεῖς ξυγχωροῦσιν.
Those with power do what their power permits, and the weak can only acquiesce.

- Thucydides


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21 Jul 2019, 12:26 am

KT67 wrote:
I was in my home town and judging on his accent he wasn't. I continue shopping all around the town centre, I must have taken hours on it. When I'm done, a voice comes out of nowhere as I'm getting into my car and he yells 'Fenian scum' at me..


So you had an outsider tell you (a local) that you are scum. I guess you have a slight window into how millions of black South Africans felt for hundreds of years when a few thousand white Europeans tell them they are "kafirs" and their traditional homelands don't belong to them anymore (and still don't since 70% of South Africa is still white owned).



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21 Jul 2019, 12:30 am

roronoa79 wrote:
How ironic that European Germans with superiority complexes indirectly caused so many member of the German diaspora to distance themselves from their heritage.


I read somewhere that nearly 50% of white Americans have at least one German ancestor. That would be ironic if they took the one drop rule (conveniently applied to blacks) and locked up half the US population in internment camps in WWII.



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21 Jul 2019, 1:27 am

cyberdad wrote:
roronoa79 wrote:
How ironic that European Germans with superiority complexes indirectly caused so many member of the German diaspora to distance themselves from their heritage.


I read somewhere that nearly 50% of white Americans have at least one German ancestor. That would be ironic if they took the one drop rule (conveniently applied to blacks) and locked up half the US population in internment camps in WWII.


Germans in fact constitute the largest nationality among Americans today, surpassing even the English.


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21 Jul 2019, 1:28 am

Misslizard wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Misslizard wrote:
Whites can be prejudiced towards other Whites.An elderly relative that was English/German first generation American talked about the Slovaks that lives down the road when she was a child.It was obvious from the conversation that neither of her parents thought the Slovaks were equal to them.Like you might hire them to do farm work but not invite to tea.
Also Black folks can be bigoted to other Black people.Lighter skinned sometimes look down on darker skin.


My dad had told me how when our Palatine German ancestors had lived in the Black Sea German colonies in Russia, they had held the ethnic Russians in utter contempt, and vice versa.

When my daughter traveled in Mexico and Guatemala she said that the Mexicans told her don’t go to Guatemala you’ll get killed, then the Guatemalans said the same thing about the Mexicans.


Doesn't surprise me.


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21 Jul 2019, 3:48 am

naturalplastic wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
All through American history Whites were told that...by other Whites...here in America.

Ben Franklin was convinced that German settlers of Pennsylvania "would NEVER assimilate".

In the 1840's the Irish were told to go back to Ireland during the wave of Irish refugees from the Potato famine.

In the late Nineteenth and early Twentieth Centuries, during the huge wave of Ellis Island era Immigrants from southern and eastern Europe, those immigrants were told to go back to Poland and Italy by members of the core population of White Anglo Saxon Protestants native born Americans.

It was only in the 21st century a few years ago that the KKK finally allowed Catholics to join. Religion isn't just religion. Religion is tied to ethnicity. So by implication the KKK is finnally inviting Micks, Wops/Dagos, and Pollocks, to join its ranks.

So for most of US history Whites were racist against other Whites (ie folks from the wrong part of Europe).

BUT...White racists are starting to drop their racism against other Whites. I guess that's.... progress! :)

They were bigots, but probably not racists since that would mean thinking of themselves as part of an inferior race.


WTF are you talking about?
First off you must have made a typo and meant "think of the other as being of an inferior race", or you meant "think of themselves as a superior race".

Second they often did view other nationalities as being inferior due to ancestry (ie its "racism").

Racism is a subcategory of bigotry. The term racism has been incorrectly broadened to include almost every type of prejudice/bigotry against a group. This trend is just lazy. A racist is specifically a person who is prejudiced against a RACE or RACES. That is why it is called racism. A person can’t be a racist unless the person is bigoted against a race or races. If a bigot incorrectly assumes the other white group is specifically another race I suppose you can argue the bigot is a racist but I even find that debatable. Being prejudiced against a ethnic group or nationality is just as bad as being a prejudiced against a race. The incorrect usage of the terms racist and racism means the terms are being overused. Terms that are overused become cheapened and lose their effectiveness.

That was not a typo but it was mistaken by not spelling out context. If a white person is prejudiced against other white groups but thinks of them as white they can not be racist without thinking of themselves as inferior. As mentioned above if they think of these other groups as another race arguably you could call them racist.


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Last edited by ASPartOfMe on 21 Jul 2019, 4:05 am, edited 2 times in total.