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The mindset behind trickle down economics in the US

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Kraichgauer
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08 Aug 2019, 7:15 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Rainbow_Belle wrote:
Over the last 40 years since Trickle Down Economics was introduced under Reagan and Thatcher, in US and UK, the elite top 1% now control 50% of the wealth of the world. 99% of the population have to get by on the remaining 50% of wealth. How on Earth is that a fair deal? Taxes on the rich and corporations should be lifted to reduce poverty, create more jobs and more opportunities for all citizens. I believe in taxing the rich more and redistributing wealth, universal health care and universal education that provide more opportunities for all citizens not just the wealthy elites.

Seems the fairest.

People keep the money they inherit or earn.

You're suggesting it's "fair" to steal their money, and give to others?


Are you suggesting taxation is stealing and we shouldn't have taxes?

When money is taken from you without your consent, what do you call it?

Image


Taxation is the cost we pay for living in a civilized society. No taxes, no roads, no police or fire protection, no military, etc.


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08 Aug 2019, 7:39 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Rainbow_Belle wrote:
Over the last 40 years since Trickle Down Economics was introduced under Reagan and Thatcher, in US and UK, the elite top 1% now control 50% of the wealth of the world. 99% of the population have to get by on the remaining 50% of wealth. How on Earth is that a fair deal? Taxes on the rich and corporations should be lifted to reduce poverty, create more jobs and more opportunities for all citizens. I believe in taxing the rich more and redistributing wealth, universal health care and universal education that provide more opportunities for all citizens not just the wealthy elites.

Seems the fairest.

People keep the money they inherit or earn.

You're suggesting it's "fair" to steal their money, and give to others?


Are you suggesting taxation is stealing and we shouldn't have taxes?

When money is taken from you without your consent, what do you call it?

Image


Taxation is the cost we pay for living in a civilized society. No taxes, no roads, no police or fire protection, no military, etc.


When I hear people complain about taxes, I think, as above, don't these people have sewers, clean water out of a tap, roads, interstate highways, firefighters, etc?

Then I hear people who complain, I don't have children, why should I pay for schools? Well, who do you think educated your police, firefighters, your doctors and dentists, your gas station attendants, the construction workers who build those roads, the plumbers who unstop your toilet, the people who repair our roads and bridges, etc?

We all benefit from our taxes and I never mind paying my share. I may disagree about how it is allocated, but I don't mind paying.


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Kraichgauer
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08 Aug 2019, 8:25 pm

blazingstar wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Rainbow_Belle wrote:
Over the last 40 years since Trickle Down Economics was introduced under Reagan and Thatcher, in US and UK, the elite top 1% now control 50% of the wealth of the world. 99% of the population have to get by on the remaining 50% of wealth. How on Earth is that a fair deal? Taxes on the rich and corporations should be lifted to reduce poverty, create more jobs and more opportunities for all citizens. I believe in taxing the rich more and redistributing wealth, universal health care and universal education that provide more opportunities for all citizens not just the wealthy elites.

Seems the fairest.

People keep the money they inherit or earn.

You're suggesting it's "fair" to steal their money, and give to others?


Are you suggesting taxation is stealing and we shouldn't have taxes?

When money is taken from you without your consent, what do you call it?

Image


Taxation is the cost we pay for living in a civilized society. No taxes, no roads, no police or fire protection, no military, etc.


When I hear people complain about taxes, I think, as above, don't these people have sewers, clean water out of a tap, roads, interstate highways, firefighters, etc?

Then I hear people who complain, I don't have children, why should I pay for schools? Well, who do you think educated your police, firefighters, your doctors and dentists, your gas station attendants, the construction workers who build those roads, the plumbers who unstop your toilet, the people who repair our roads and bridges, etc?

We all benefit from our taxes and I never mind paying my share. I may disagree about how it is allocated, but I don't mind paying.


AMEN!! !


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wowiexist
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08 Aug 2019, 9:56 pm

Antrax wrote:
wowiexist wrote:
Antrax wrote:
Roboto wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
To me, "Trickle down " seems better economics than forking it over to government (and blindly hoping that some government agent will put it to better use).


Trickle down only works if money is allowed to trickle down. Too often it does not. With government regulations and labor and wage laws, there's much more of a guarantee.

Seems like the opposite.

When you take money from business owners, they have less profit, so workers have to get squeezed.

However, cut taxes, cut labor laws, cut regulation , then business owners have more, so workers can have higher salaries.


It's true that they "can" have higher salaries, but the reality is that they don't.


I'd very much like to see evidence of this reality.


Evidence would be the George W Bush economy. The economy was strong during the Clinton years. When the economy was slowing at the beginning of Bush’s tenure he used tax cuts for the wealthy and the economy just got worse.


The Bush tax cuts were passed in 2001, 2003. The recession of 2000-2002 was followed by a period of steady growth. Unless you want to blame the tax cuts for the 2008 recession, which has no basis in reality.


I don’t know about steadily but I guess it somewhat improved. Another example could be the Sam Brownback tax policy in Kansas.



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08 Aug 2019, 9:57 pm

cberg wrote:
The richer the minority gets, the less money is circulating.


I'm sorry this is strictly speaking not accurate and represents a fundamental lack of understanding of economics. It is possible for the minority to get richer, while the majority also gets richer, and for more money to circulate. This is in fact was has happened in the american economy over the last 80 years.


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LoveNotHate
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08 Aug 2019, 11:22 pm

cberg wrote:
I call that private healthcare. :roll: We have a medical industry in this country, in other more civilized countries, medical industry stops at the hospital door because taking people's money to benefit private interests is harmful. If the government is not taking your money, private interests will take more of it because they represent unregulated greed.

You want Donald Trump to have your money or you?


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08 Aug 2019, 11:44 pm

blazingstar wrote:

When I hear people complain about taxes, I think, as above, don't these people have sewers, clean water out of a tap, roads, interstate highways, firefighters, etc?

Then I hear people who complain, I don't have children, why should I pay for schools? Well, who do you think educated your police, firefighters, your doctors and dentists, your gas station attendants, the construction workers who build those roads, the plumbers who unstop your toilet, the people who repair our roads and bridges, etc?

We all benefit from our taxes and I never mind paying my share. I may disagree about how it is allocated, but I don't mind paying.

I think about …

$500 toilet seats, endless military interventions, 500 million wasted on bankrupt Solyndra, Trump's Space Force, Trump's Wall, fiscal irresponsibility, lack of accountability, limited oversight, national debt at 22 trillion …

You would prefer your money go to Donald Trump to spend for you?


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beneficii
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08 Aug 2019, 11:50 pm

LoveNotHate wrote:
cberg wrote:
I call that private healthcare. :roll: We have a medical industry in this country, in other more civilized countries, medical industry stops at the hospital door because taking people's money to benefit private interests is harmful. If the government is not taking your money, private interests will take more of it because they represent unregulated greed.

You want Donald Trump to have your money or you?


It won't be Donald Trump that has it, unless he embezzles it in violation of the law (beyond his salary, of course).


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08 Aug 2019, 11:57 pm

beneficii wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
cberg wrote:
I call that private healthcare. :roll: We have a medical industry in this country, in other more civilized countries, medical industry stops at the hospital door because taking people's money to benefit private interests is harmful. If the government is not taking your money, private interests will take more of it because they represent unregulated greed.

You want Donald Trump to have your money or you?


It won't be Donald Trump that has it, unless he embezzles it in violation of the law (beyond his salary, of course).

He sets agency budget requests.

Also, he successfully redirected money to build his WALL ( despite Congress not authorizing it).

For example, your tax contributions are going towards Trump's agenda, such as hiring more Border Patrol agents, and building more jails for illegal aliens.


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beneficii
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09 Aug 2019, 12:11 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
beneficii wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
cberg wrote:
I call that private healthcare. :roll: We have a medical industry in this country, in other more civilized countries, medical industry stops at the hospital door because taking people's money to benefit private interests is harmful. If the government is not taking your money, private interests will take more of it because they represent unregulated greed.

You want Donald Trump to have your money or you?


It won't be Donald Trump that has it, unless he embezzles it in violation of the law (beyond his salary, of course).

He sets agency budget requests.

Also, he successfully redirected money to build his WALL ( despite Congress not authorizing it).

For example, your tax contributions are going towards Trump's agenda, such as hiring more Border Patrol agents, and building more jails for illegal aliens.


So what are you suggesting I do?


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09 Aug 2019, 12:26 am

beneficii wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
beneficii wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
cberg wrote:
I call that private healthcare. :roll: We have a medical industry in this country, in other more civilized countries, medical industry stops at the hospital door because taking people's money to benefit private interests is harmful. If the government is not taking your money, private interests will take more of it because they represent unregulated greed.

You want Donald Trump to have your money or you?


It won't be Donald Trump that has it, unless he embezzles it in violation of the law (beyond his salary, of course).

He sets agency budget requests.

Also, he successfully redirected money to build his WALL ( despite Congress not authorizing it).

For example, your tax contributions are going towards Trump's agenda, such as hiring more Border Patrol agents, and building more jails for illegal aliens.


So what are you suggesting I do?

I am explaining why I prefer to keep my money, because, mostly, likely, it is not going for beneficial things that I support.


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09 Aug 2019, 12:59 am

There is a real need for a government. There's a reason we don't have an anarcho-capitalist society (which would devolve into Feudalism). There's also the reality that for most things market systems will outperform government administration. Command economies have pretty universally failed in the long run. Market economies have done well in the long run.

The government needs taxes to operate. The relevant questions:

1) What is the optimal form of taxation.

2) What is the optimal amount of taxation.

3) What things should the government be spending its money on.


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beneficii
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09 Aug 2019, 4:32 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
beneficii wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
beneficii wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
cberg wrote:
I call that private healthcare. :roll: We have a medical industry in this country, in other more civilized countries, medical industry stops at the hospital door because taking people's money to benefit private interests is harmful. If the government is not taking your money, private interests will take more of it because they represent unregulated greed.

You want Donald Trump to have your money or you?


It won't be Donald Trump that has it, unless he embezzles it in violation of the law (beyond his salary, of course).

He sets agency budget requests.

Also, he successfully redirected money to build his WALL ( despite Congress not authorizing it).

For example, your tax contributions are going towards Trump's agenda, such as hiring more Border Patrol agents, and building more jails for illegal aliens.


So what are you suggesting I do?

I am explaining why I prefer to keep my money, because, mostly, likely, it is not going for beneficial things that I support.


So if one person doesn't support appropriations for something, then we shouldn't appropriate money for it?


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LoveNotHate
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09 Aug 2019, 4:47 am

beneficii wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
beneficii wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
beneficii wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
cberg wrote:
I call that private healthcare. :roll: We have a medical industry in this country, in other more civilized countries, medical industry stops at the hospital door because taking people's money to benefit private interests is harmful. If the government is not taking your money, private interests will take more of it because they represent unregulated greed.

You want Donald Trump to have your money or you?


It won't be Donald Trump that has it, unless he embezzles it in violation of the law (beyond his salary, of course).

He sets agency budget requests.

Also, he successfully redirected money to build his WALL ( despite Congress not authorizing it).

For example, your tax contributions are going towards Trump's agenda, such as hiring more Border Patrol agents, and building more jails for illegal aliens.


So what are you suggesting I do?

I am explaining why I prefer to keep my money, because, mostly, likely, it is not going for beneficial things that I support.


So if one person doesn't support appropriations for something, then we shouldn't appropriate money for it?

That would be ideal.

That would end spending on dumb stuff, like wars.

However, it's good enough to know that I will spend my money better than TRUMP.


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09 Aug 2019, 5:18 am

LoveNotHate wrote:
blazingstar wrote:

When I hear people complain about taxes, I think, as above, don't these people have sewers, clean water out of a tap, roads, interstate highways, firefighters, etc?

Then I hear people who complain, I don't have children, why should I pay for schools? Well, who do you think educated your police, firefighters, your doctors and dentists, your gas station attendants, the construction workers who build those roads, the plumbers who unstop your toilet, the people who repair our roads and bridges, etc?

We all benefit from our taxes and I never mind paying my share. I may disagree about how it is allocated, but I don't mind paying.

I think about …

$500 toilet seats, endless military interventions, 500 million wasted on bankrupt Solyndra, Trump's Space Force, Trump's Wall, fiscal irresponsibility, lack of accountability, limited oversight, national debt at 22 trillion …

You would prefer your money go to Donald Trump to spend for you?


What I said is: I may not agree on how it (taxes) is allocated. In my 65 years, Trump has only been in office for two of them. More important than the golden toilet seats are the vast number of benefits we now take for granted.


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09 Aug 2019, 10:49 am

Humans in the capitalist system can be sued.
Humans in the government can not.
How anyone believes that the same humans acting within the government without recourse for negative action are somehow going to automatically act more morally are baffling creatures.