Christian Church and Child Abuse
21 Aug 2019, 3:01 pm
Hello
I was wondering if anyone understood why there was such a high rate of child abuse (or at least claims) in the various forms of main stream Christianity.
I was wondering what the reasons were behind this.
I am baffled as to how this came to be.
I am also confused as to whether the abuse is genuine or if some of the abuse is fabricated by malicious types who want to destroy the church, competitors in christianity or because the people are satanists.
This is all very confusing.
I would have thought that men of God, who are supposed to be men of strong faith.
Should even be able to resist temptation even if they have a tendency towards an abnormal sexual interest.
I just can't understand it.
I mean, surely if someone suffered from that dynamic, they would know and then, being men of God, would ask
to be kept away from temptation.
Perhaps some of the priests are set up?
Now, please do not get me wrong. I am not defending the atrocious acts of child molesters.
I am simply confused as to the true nature of such things. are these things for real.
Are child molesters attracted to the priest hood because they know they can get access to kids or something.
or perhaps child molesters sussed out a scam in which they could get away with their atrocious crimes
without getting prosecuted due to bad publicity.
I mean, i know that some governments cover up such things because they cause scandals that in tern cause bad PR.
But i also know that there are people who live among us who are right liars, and some, who are satanists, who
lie in order to manipulate circumstances to their advantage and to hurt innocent people.
Personally i find it all very confusing. I think that our modern world is perhaps venturing towards the "brave new world" idea of having no parents, and having robots to look after all the kids.
Not due to lack of family id, but to stop kids from getting abused by adults.
Hopefully when decent realistic human looking robots are created, then we can get them to look after all the kids until they are 18. Perhaps even base the robots on the real parents.
So then we will all be sure that none of the children get subjected to any form of abuse.
And no one gets wrongly convicted or even accused.
That would be ideal.
Anyway, anyone have some insight or knowledge on this topic. I would be interested in gaining a better understanding.
21 Aug 2019, 3:36 pm
I think it happens in the first place because of opportunity. I think they get involved in the church specifically to be able to gain access to children. Until recently I think various churches covered it up to protect their reputation. I think they are starting to put programs in place to combat it now. A lot of the cases on the news seem to be ones that happened in early 2000s or before.
21 Aug 2019, 7:13 pm
Sure. I find it all baffling.
I wondered if the environment or strict rules may cause some of them men to go that way.
Not saying that i think that is normal.
I just think that a life of abstinence from sex, physical contact with partners.
Self gratification being banned, as well as porn, prostitutes, as well as even thinking dirty thoughts.
Were as some may find that lifestyle of pure humble servitude to God and the Community,
Especially if they have a strong faith in God.
For others, who have less self control. I wonder if it sends them that way.
personally i would have thought not. as surely.
Sex with children isn't something that turns normal people on period.
I would have thought that Priests who are having problems with self control would have gravitated towards
adults in their congregation, prostitution or normal porn.
I don't understand how they end up molesting kids. Perhaps you are right, in that they must naturally be that way or it must be due to bizarre occult beliefs or because they were molested themselves.
I guess i don't really understand the subject, and no one really explains.
When bad things get reported, there is plenty of news, but no one really offers an insight into why these people do such things. Really confusing stuff.
I think they should chemically castrate these people when their in prison too.
That's if the reason why they molest children is because of inappropriate sexual desire.
But if it is due to sadistic tendencies or other darkness, such as the desire to control or manipulate.
Then chemical castrating or even castrating people literally wouldn't do any good.
As they will find other twisted ways to mess up the kids.
Sadly.
Someone probably has written a book. But not the kind of book you want to be walking around in public with.
However, having an understanding of the topic would help me spot people who are dangerous.
Not that i am a vigilante, but i think that knowledge is the best weapon that one can arm ourselves with
in such cases.
21 Aug 2019, 8:23 pm
Is it actually high? Or just highly reported compared to other institutions that interact with children? I don't know if there's been a knock-out study that says "children are x times less likely to be abused in secular settings compared to religious ones". I suspect if there was, we'd have never heard the end of it.
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22 Aug 2019, 7:35 am
I wondered if the environment or strict rules may cause some of them men to go that way.
Not saying that i think that is normal.
I just think that a life of abstinence from sex, physical contact with partners.
Self gratification being banned, as well as porn, prostitutes, as well as even thinking dirty thoughts.
Were as some may find that lifestyle of pure humble servitude to God and the Community,
Especially if they have a strong faith in God.
For others, who have less self control. I wonder if it sends them that way.
personally i would have thought not. as surely.
Sex with children isn't something that turns normal people on period.
I would have thought that Priests who are having problems with self control would have gravitated towards
adults in their congregation, prostitution or normal porn.
I don't understand how they end up molesting kids. Perhaps you are right, in that they must naturally be that way or it must be due to bizarre occult beliefs or because they were molested themselves.
I guess i don't really understand the subject, and no one really explains.
When bad things get reported, there is plenty of news, but no one really offers an insight into why these people do such things. Really confusing stuff.
I think they should chemically castrate these people when their in prison too.
That's if the reason why they molest children is because of inappropriate sexual desire.
But if it is due to sadistic tendencies or other darkness, such as the desire to control or manipulate.
Then chemical castrating or even castrating people literally wouldn't do any good.
As they will find other twisted ways to mess up the kids.
Sadly.
Someone probably has written a book. But not the kind of book you want to be walking around in public with.
However, having an understanding of the topic would help me spot people who are dangerous.
Not that i am a vigilante, but i think that knowledge is the best weapon that one can arm ourselves with
in such cases.
I think there might also be cases in which they were naturally like that and they thought working for the church would help them.
In some cases it might be the strict rules. Some say they shouldn’t have to follow the strict rules. In my view if the rules are too hard to follow they should find a different job.
22 Aug 2019, 1:10 pm
Wille Sutton was asked why he robbed banks. His response was "That's where the money is".
Wherever children are congregated, that is where those who are inclined to abuse them are drawn.
Since, until recently, Western Civilization held Christianity in high regard, there was an incentive for those not really Christian to pretend to be.
When you also consider that Christians are supposed to grow into Christ-likeness, you can get an idea how far short those who are actually supposed to be Christian fall. Between those who are not even Christian and those Christians in arrested development, it is not surprising that when one looks at "Christianity" one sees little difference between those who claim Christ and any other group.
Actual real Christianity is transformative and can deliver people from compulsive and destructive inclinations. However, there are not many who find this path.
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. - Matthew 7:13-14
22 Aug 2019, 1:46 pm
You DONT hear about child abuse in "mainstream religions".
You hear about child abuse in just one sect of "mainstream religion" . Roman Catholicism.
This might have been true for a long time but recently it came out that there has been child abuse in the Southern Baptist denomination. I think they might have even released a list of accused offenders but I can’t remember for sure.
22 Aug 2019, 2:38 pm
Is it actually high? Or just highly reported compared to other institutions that interact with children? I don't know if there's been a knock-out study that says "children are x times less likely to be abused in secular settings compared to religious ones". I suspect if there was, we'd have never heard the end of it.
I would be inclined to agree. I would also suggest that scandals in faith groups tend to "stick in the mind" a bit better than scandals in, say, residential homes. There are a few reasons for this including that we hold religious figures to very high standards and are actively surprised when they fail to live up to them, and that people tend to have more exposure to religious institutions than to social workers and can therefore form a narrative in their mind's eye much more easily.
Sweetleaf
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22 Aug 2019, 3:18 pm
I am not entirely certain it occurs more in branches of christianity...but one problem is some churches/christian communities protect accused pedophiles. Like they won't bring the police in they try to solve it themselves...apparently it is a pretty big problem among Jehovah's witnesses but its not the only one, just one example.
So IDK that it occurs more in churches/christianity, or if some churches are more likely to try to handle the matter 'internally' based on biblical principles or their interpretation of it.
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ASPartOfMe
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22 Aug 2019, 11:59 pm
Not only Christians. It apparently was rampant at the moss prestigious Jewish school in the country
Rabbis At NYC’s Yeshiva University High School Accused Of Molesting Dozens Of Former Students
The suit, filed in state Supreme Court in Manhattan, alleges that the university failed to protect students at Yeshiva University High School for Boys and promoted one of the rabbis to principal even after receiving abuse reports.
A Yeshiva University spokesperson declined to comment, citing a school policy against speaking publicly about litigation.
The lawsuit is one of hundreds that have been filed over child sexual abuse allegations since last week, when New York state opened a one-year window for suits previously barred by the state’s statute of limitations.
During a news conference Thursday, three of the alleged victims, flanked by their lawyers, spoke about disturbing behavior they say went on for decades.
“I didn’t even understand at the time that this was sexual abuse; I just knew that this guy was putting his hands all over me,” said Barry Singer, 61, speaking of one of the rabbis he said kept reaching into the boy’s pants, even in school hallways.
The Associated Press doesn’t typically identify people who say they are victims of sexual abuse unless they choose to be named.
One of the accused rabbis, George Finkelstein, targeted children of Holocaust survivors, according to the lawsuit, telling them they would increase their parents’ suffering if they spoke about the abuse. The other, Rabbi Macy Gordon, who taught Jewish studies, allegedly sodomized boys in a “vicious and sadistic” manner using objects, the lawsuit says. Gordon died in 2017 in Israel. Both he and Finkelstein have denied the allegations in the past.
Finkelstein was promoted from the school’s assistant principal to principal even after some of the boys’ parents reported the alleged abuse to school officials, the plaintiffs said. He eventually moved to Israel, where he worked at Jerusalem’s Great Synagogue. Calls to the synagogue rang unanswered Thursday.
Thirty-four of the plaintiffs attempted to sue Yeshiva University for sexual abuse and facilitating sexual abuse in 2013 but the case went nowhere because it was barred by the statute of limitations at the time. On Thursday, one of their attorneys, Kevin Mulhearn, called the plaintiffs “trailblazers.”
David Bressler, 51, said the abuse he suffered while a student in the early ’80s led him to abandon his religion that now rekindles memories of the abuse. He has no contact with his parents and other relatives who are observant Jews. When he married his Jewish wife a decade ago, he made her promise not to raise their children in the Jewish faith.
He said he still doesn’t tuck in his shirt, a habit he started in high school to make it more difficult for his abuser to put his hand down his pants. Bressler once punched Finkelstein while he says the rabbi was sexually “wrestling” with him.
Now there are days he can’t bear being on a crowded subway because “I can’t stand being touched by people.”
“So you don’t even realize what the long-term impact is,” said Bressler, a father of two.
Yeshiva University, which calls itself “the world’s premier Jewish institution for higher learning,” has trained both secular and religious leaders for the past century. With four campuses in Manhattan, the university operates the Albert Einstein College of Medicine, the Benjamin Cardozo School of Law and other schools that attract a mix of Jewish and non-Jewish students.
The high school, also known as the Marsha Stern Talmudical Academy, has taught boys since 1916. It’s considered the first academic Jewish high school in the U.S. and the first to offer both Jewish and secular studies.
The covered up for their own just like the Catholic Church. At least the Catholic church could not use the Holocaust to cover up their predatory behavior. That is a low as it can get.
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23 Aug 2019, 4:48 am
Is it actually high? Or just highly reported compared to other institutions that interact with children? I don't know if there's been a knock-out study that says "children are x times less likely to be abused in secular settings compared to religious ones". I suspect if there was, we'd have never heard the end of it.
I would be inclined to agree. I would also suggest that scandals in faith groups tend to "stick in the mind" a bit better than scandals in, say, residential homes. There are a few reasons for this including that we hold religious figures to very high standards and are actively surprised when they fail to live up to them, and that people tend to have more exposure to religious institutions than to social workers and can therefore form a narrative in their mind's eye much more easily.
I think that it has more to do with secular institutions being forced to be open to public view, and have local, state, and federal governments breathing down their backs, to make sure that they screen out pedophiles. But governments back off and allow religions to police themselves. So religions can get away with burying wrongdoing and being secretive.
23 Aug 2019, 4:36 pm
I was wondering if anyone understood why there was such a high rate of child abuse (or at least claims) in the various forms of main stream Christianity.
I was wondering what the reasons were behind this.
I am baffled as to how this came to be.
Simple: Any job in which there are opportunities for one-to-one contact with children is going to attract more than its share of pedophiles.
Within the past decade or so, at least some churches, including the Catholic church, have gotten smarter about this and made it harder for priests/pastors and other church employees to have one-on-one contact with children. However, until then, being a church employee was a great way for would-be child molesters to have one-on-one contact with lots and lots of children.
I would expect that the abuse is genuine in the vast majority of cases -- although, as with any crime, false accusations are certainly possible.
Until about 15 years ago, it was extremely difficult to get any accusation of clergy sex abuse taken seriously at all. Everyone knew it happened, but the churches covered it up (in an attempt to avoid institutional embarrassment), and the police and politicians deferred to the churches (or at least the bigger, more established churches).
Perhaps this happens occasionally, but it's unlikely to happen very often. There's been enough real clergy sex abuse that an enemy of a particular church denomination would have no need to go to the trouble of fabricating it.
A more likely source of false accusations is the "recovered memory" fad. Back in the 1970's and 1980's, a lot of psychotherapists came to believe that a lot of people's psychological problems were caused by repressed memories of childhood sexual abuse; and it was deemed to be a good idea to try to "recover" those memories, e.g. via hypnosis. It was eventually recognized that such methods are more likely to create false memories than unearth true ones. However, some "recovered memory" therapists are still around and still wreaking havoc.
Here we go again. Please see my responses to you in the thread Occult Practices for the uninitiated, how to spot possible.
I would have thought that men of God, who are supposed to be men of strong faith.
Should even be able to resist temptation even if they have a tendency towards an abnormal sexual interest.
I just can't understand it.
I mean, surely if someone suffered from that dynamic, they would know and then, being men of God, would ask
to be kept away from temptation.
Not everyone who works for a church does so with pure motives, of course. And even those who start out with pure motives may ... sometimes ... change.
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23 Aug 2019, 4:45 pm
Churches and religious organisations will always have high rate of child abuse because it presents an opportunity to be alone with children, therefore sick f***s will gravitate towards it.
Like the boy scouts, it offers a chance to f**k children.
You can't blame the religion, and most of the people are good sorts, it just attracts the sick pedo f***s too.
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