American Democracy Will Fail In The Next 30 Years

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GuessWh000
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12 Sep 2019, 10:21 am

Frankly I think Americans deserve whatever they have coming to them. If they choose to allow a hardcore capitalistic megalomaniac into the white house who wants to destroy every bit of our human progress as a nation and they don't put up much of a fight for a country that they claim to be deeply patriotic about because they are too busy arguing amongst themselves over bs then in my honest opinion their nation DESERVES to collapse.

It's just like in George Romero's American horror classic "Night of the Living Dead" when all the strangers hiding in the farm house got killed by the zombies because they were too busy fighting and bickering amongst themselves to cooperate for their own survival.

Maybe a society that values individualism ain't all it's cracked out to be? :roll:

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kraftiekortie
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12 Sep 2019, 10:29 am

The United States is NOT going to collapse.

There was grave danger of it around 1814 (when the British set fire to Washington, DC and the White House)----and during the Civil War. Those were much more drastic times than what we're going through now.



GuessWh000
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12 Sep 2019, 3:24 pm

Sorry but I disagree. Right now we have a dictator wannabe in the oval office who is doing everything that the naively optimistic Americans said he would never be able to do.

And you know what really sickens me?

Hitler was actually elected by the Germans because they were starving and desperate from the devestation done to their country from World War 1.

Explain to me exactly what excuse Americans have for electing somebody like Trump? A man who praises dictators, thinks of himself as God, supports torture, locks hispanic children up in cages like animals, has contributed so much to destroying what's left of our planet in order to profit the rich 1%, has encouraged white nationalistic domestic terrorism, and has his own crazed cult of angry MAGA hat-wearing lunatics who love every minute of this bullshit like it's some popular new reality TV show?

America's eventual fall will be hard indeed. History WILL judge us harshly for this if Trump actually manages to become president for life and makes his family into a 'dynasty' after his eventual death.

So all I gotta say is bravo my fellow Americans! That's what you people get for honoring reality TV stars and Hollywood celebs over true leaders :roll:



kraftiekortie
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12 Sep 2019, 5:04 pm

I hope you don't put ME in the category of someone who admires Trump.....



Antrax
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12 Sep 2019, 6:57 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
The United States is NOT going to collapse.

There was grave danger of it around 1814 (when the British set fire to Washington, DC and the White House)----and during the Civil War. Those were much more drastic times than what we're going through now.


I don't think anyone thinks the U.S. will collapse, rather that we will adopt an undemocratic government a la Turkey, Russia, China, Iran, etc. etc.


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12 Sep 2019, 8:15 pm

I am not sure about failing, but modification is a better description.


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techstepgenr8tion
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12 Sep 2019, 8:27 pm

Antrax wrote:
I don't think anyone thinks the U.S. will collapse, rather that we will adopt an undemocratic government a la Turkey, Russia, China, Iran, etc. etc.

Yeah, my best guess is something like China-style surveillance state, with or without a social credit system.


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kraftiekortie
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13 Sep 2019, 6:31 pm

I don’t believe even the “surveillance state” will happen.

I believe we will come to our senses, ultimately.



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13 Sep 2019, 7:09 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I don’t believe even the “surveillance state” will happen.

I believe we will come to our senses, ultimately.


Thank goodness for Kortie. People like him keep me going through the hard times.


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14 Sep 2019, 3:07 pm

Smiles; Democracy Expresses best the Will and Ill of the People
Who are at Core the Democracy At Hand. When The Society Gets Sick, the
Democracy Will Express it at its Best and Worst With Leaders Chosen Next.

A Real Blessing of Democracy in the way it is Expressed in the United States Is Separation of Church And State.

A Greatest Threat to Democracy is the State is Not Separated from Many Churches that Even Express a Value
of Love in Faith, Hope, And Charity too unconditionally As Such; with Least Harm consuming others and the
Rest of Nature that is our Only Home and Source of Life Blood Most; along with the Cooperation of Others
in Loving Giving Sharing Caring Ways of Charity in Faith of Good Hope Love as Well. One would Hope
the Religions might do a Job of Bringing Folks all together; and true they do on a small scale
Tribal Way; But no; they do not Globally As such for they make Enemies and Friends too
From the Pulpit and Congregation side of the Church House too.

While the Election of a Demagogue by very Nature Shows the Inherent Propensity of the
Citizens Toward Prejudice, Fear, and Hate of Others, Different; of course it also shows An Environment of Existential
Scarcity that is in Dire Straights too; As far as i can and will see from Visiting Strongholds of the Current Administration
Where i do LiVE iN Ground Zero in the Panhandle of Florida; also known as LA Lower Alabama; where Yes, Trump Himself
Exclaims this is the only Place someone will get away With Yelling Shoot the Immigrant Seeking Asylum over Texas Borders With Mexico at a Public Event With Trump as Master of Ceremonies; A Major Factor likely the Major Factor of why
A Demagogue could even be elected in the United States is the Church, both Catholic And Protestant Main Stream
Makes it no Secret in their instruction to Vote Republican at all Costs for the Alternative of Fiery Hell forever
for allowing Legal and Safe Abortion and Homosexual Folks A Right to Get Married in Civil Unions.

It's a sticking point and a very Dangerous Point that is causing Much Havoc in our Country now; but fortunately
Mostly a Gray Haired issue with the Older More Stuck in the Past Demographic as that is mostly what is left in the
Pews from Protestant to Catholic; Last Strong Holds For Ignorance Against Difference still; and Just plain Ignorance
of what it would even mean if Abortions Were outlawed; as History shows More Abortions Performed Before Reproductive
Education, Contraceptives and Services Were Provided Widely as Most definitely a Healthier Alternative from Back
Alley Abortions that Still Make Permanent Disability, Death, and Suffering a Greater Threat to Human Health,
Overall. In other Words, The Church Still hasn't Figured out the Part of the Golden Rule about Do Least
Harm; for in abolishing Medically Safe Abortion Studies Show More Harm would actually come to
All Humans Associated with the issues, overall; as the Most Likely Scenario for that Potential Change.

Really; if we wanna Blame someone for it; it is the Republican Party and the Democratic Party's Responsibility
to Put up someone that can and will win; for the above Issues are highly unlikely to Change Until the Baby Boomer
More Conservative Leaning Voters Naturally Go Away; the Information Age is Hurting and Helping Ignorance;
but Overall; it's impossible to Hide Truths that were hidden much easier before we all Got access to more
Truth; if we choose to see it in Broadband Day Light, now.

Anyway; Democracy is the Will of the People and It is still working Well; the Effect of Democracy
Best is to expose the Society's Ills and Correct them from the Will of those Same People too; Ignorance
is a Huge Roadblock to Effective Change; Always will be; but the Truth Will set more Folks Free into a Light
that is not so Relative to Misery and Suffering away from a real survive and thrive of Life that works better
than an Opiate Addicted Person Yelling out 'Kill Brown Jesus' Crossing the Border; as it doesn't get much more
'Anti-Christ' than that; along with not giving Human Beings the Civil Rights associated with Loving Marriage, no
Matter Male and or Female too. Common Sense and Feel of Love Will Go Along Way as that becomes real too.

There is also of course the Gun Control Issue too; The Cost of Death Versus the Benefit of Life will Likely
Work that Out soon enough for some kind of effective change; It's always gonna be a life or death sticking point too.
At Least the People of the Country are mostly for greater regulation in Purchasing Guns at least; the sticking point is voting the will of those folks in, instead of out who will Effect that change, most; Those Folks are mostly Old too...

Education to restore Human Empathy for People to Connect in Flesh and Blood More; is a dire Need for Change too.

Considering We are overall, Social Animals; and that Classical Evolution Propensity is Hanging around; perhaps we will see an eventual change for that too; as it just isn't any fun being unhappy without Flesh and Blood Friends for Social Animals; for Obvious Reasons/Art of Science and Love too.

In the Next 30 Years, the Baby Boomer Church Goers Will be mostly gone; actually, Democracy may be
Thriving much better with a More Intelligent and Less Ignorant, Overall Population of Loving Diversity;
that remains to be seen. We Will Be Still Be Human; How Much Human to be or not to be is up to all of us.


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Last edited by aghogday on 14 Sep 2019, 3:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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14 Sep 2019, 3:16 pm

Antrax wrote:
Yogi Berra: "Predictions are hard, especially about the future."

I think there's certainly warning signs, and that it certainly feels like we've stepped into the twilight zone. Maybe the country will course correct. A Biden election would bring about a strong return to normalcy. It would be a simultaneous repudiation of the squad and Trumpism. I don't think Biden is the world's greatest candidate by any means, but looking at the alternatives I think he's the best path forward for the country.

I've had Haidt's book recommended to me by some people, and have been meaning to check it out some time.


Please just don't. Don't make this specifically about anti-Trump.



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14 Sep 2019, 3:20 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
Roboto wrote:
It failed long ago. We're just dealing with the symptoms of it now.
In general people don't realize they are in the downward spiral until the flush has completed, but we're definitely circling the drain.

I think that's just a difference of definitions. The system has been constantly broken and fixed throughout the country's history and there have been plenty of points where it's varied between almost going off the rails and truly going off the rails, there were probably at least three times in the 19th century where this was the case, a couple times in the 20th century, and we're seeing the first major dilemma now of the 21st.

I think there's something to be said about liberalism, by itself, being a centrifugal system that rips apart family, atomizes individuals, and has a way of turning everything into a business contract.

Some people would say that Patrick J. Deneen has a dog in the fight in the way of being pro-religious/pro-Catholic but whether we'd agree with him that religion should be the check or balance against liberalism blossoming into a sort of sociopathic global neoliberalism I still don't think his analysis is too far of in that something bordering on a combination of plutocracy and anarcho-capitalism is what happens when liberalism is left to answer to nothing else:

https://www.firstthings.com/article/201 ... gnoble-lie


Even though people will just simply mock, I think they have a point.



kraftiekortie
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14 Sep 2019, 3:26 pm

We are in the transition zone between the old, 20th way if things (technology, especially) and the new, 21st century way of doing things.

We need to train people in the new technology.

This is one of the reasons for the discontent we are experiencing these days.



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14 Sep 2019, 3:34 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
Yuval harari at one point said that being useless is far worse than being oppressed - amd I think that's where we're headed: large swaths of mankind becoming redundant in the production process, and economically disenfranchised. And politics has handed over power to economics long ago - so, demicracy might heal itself, but ot might just not matter.

Biden or some other normal person could calm down the hysterical 'liberals', but that won't give former coal miners a job or a feeling of purpose.

That makes me wonder if we shouldn't be pushing technology, whether out of brilliant open-hearted philanthropy or simple revenge, to make every human advantage - wealth, high intelligence, great artistic skills, redundant so that no super-class with the self-given right to liquidate all other life can get a proper foothold. It's far better if 100% of people are made useless than 90-95%.


I think the only way that may be ever possible is that a large solar flare destroys all our modern tech prowess.
Even then, it wouldn't really matter to the 90% of earth's population since they will all die within months from mass violence or other cause anyway.



kraftiekortie
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14 Sep 2019, 3:35 pm

We’re not headed for an apocalypse....

We just have to get our priorities straight.