Theory of mind

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Do you feel that you have an impaired theory of mind? I'm 21 and a college student, but I frequently catch myself assuming that other people know what I know, understand my motivations, and see things how I do. I'm not good at seeing things from others' perspectives.

Is it normal do you think to have problems with theory of mind at this age? I think that many people, regardless of dx, seem to have issues with understanding others' perspectives.

This topic belongs in General Autism. Don't see how it belongs in PPR.

But to answer your question. Yes. Lack of TOM is a big part of being on the autism spectrum.

Oh, okay. I was thinking of theory of mind being a philosophical concept. :T

No, because I rarely interact with people.

Late in life I still run afoul of that. The most maddening thing is NTs ribbing you for lying when you're not lying about anything.

It's an actual operant condition, although I run into it more often in NTs than in autistic people.

"Well, everybody knows <some obscure fact>; I don't believe you never did!" -- typical NT response to my request for clarification.

Smiles; because a Science Terms Comes for what was
Once Considered A Philosophy of our Very Existential
Existence in How Different Folks View the World Differently
And Same IN and Out of the 'Cave' Out into the Light of More
'Christmas Tree Colors' Or Just SHades of Grey That Fade Away from
Beyond Rainbow Colorings of Joy to Black Abyss; My God 'Private Gump'
It's True
Theory
of Mind
Varies and
Is not necessarily
An Issue Restricted to
This or That so-Called Disorder, alone;
If there was ever an appropriate Subject for
Philosophy; as after all it is very Subjective For What
Is Theory of Mind; even though It's True, it has
Been Subjectively Studied With Empirical
Evidence to show Associations
With Different Anomalies
of Disorders
of
the Mind
With Less and
even More Complicated
Theories of Mind; Science Cannot
Even Pinpoint the Origin of Consciousness
At the Core of All Our Realities Separate and Same,
If there is even Such a Thing; Smiles i've Never Had
Difficulty Understanding Anyone on this Internet Site;
Oh Lord
i must
be
Strange
too; for simply
Not having any Problem
Understanding differences
among Human Beings in so many ways;
Brings a lot of contexts; a lot of 'strands
in old Duder's Head'; on the Other Hands
Not everyone else has enough 'Theory of
Mind' to Understand me and i understand that
too; and never get Upset at almost anything in life.
Understanding the Minds of Others is Key in Getting along well in
this Life; Being Strong Enough to Assert a New Opinion Is Just Being Strong
and not
worried
about
Getting
Outcast from
Group Think of Common;
i Left 'the Cave' so Long ago
Rarely does anyone have
Enough Theory of my
Mind for mine as
it is simply
Unexplored
Territory
for them
Still, hehe;
Good News
There are still
Seconds And A
Thousand or So Years to
Catch up; note the Sarcasm Please.
Google Provides many Search Engine Ways to Help With
Different Ways of Seeing the World; Multi-Cultural; Multi-Mind it is, TG;
It is a lot easier to 'Catch up or Slow Down with others' than it was in my Youth;
On the Other Hands, Humans Are Literally Creating Their Own Cultures as they
Go With Limitless Potentials for what is available at their Finger Tips and
Six-Inch Screens to the Point where all we may have one day is 'Trump
Theory of Mind'
in 'Common;
ugh;
just ugh;
And Hmmm...
Excellent Philosophical
Topic this Theory of Mind Is..

Continued in next comment:

Continued from Last Comment

Last edited by aghogday on 08 May 2020, 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The Google Search Engine
Is A Good Friend that i use the Hell
and Heaven out of;
And Purgatory too.

"Philosophical and psychological roots
Contemporary discussions of Theory of Mind have their roots in philosophical debate—most broadly, from the time of Descartes' Second Meditation, which set the groundwork for considering the science of the mind. Most prominent recently are two contrasting approaches in the philosophical literature, to theory of mind: theory-theory and simulation theory. The theory-theorist imagines a veritable theory—"folk psychology"—used to reason about others' minds. The theory is developed automatically and innately, though instantiated through social interactions.[18] It is also closely related to person perception and attribution theory from social psychology.

The intuitive assumption that others are minded is an apparent tendency we all share. We anthropomorphize non-human animals, inanimate objects, and even natural phenomena. Daniel Dennett referred to this tendency as taking an "intentional stance" toward things: we assume they have intentions, to help predict future behavior.[19] However, there is an important distinction between taking an "intentional stance" toward something and entering a "shared world" with it. The intentional stance is a detached and functional theory we resort to during interpersonal interactions. A shared world is directly perceived and its existence structures reality itself for the perceiver. It is not just automatically applied to perception; it in many ways constitutes perception.

The philosophical roots of the relational frame theory (RFT) account of Theory of Mind arise from contextual psychology and refer to the study of organisms (both human and non-human) interacting in and with an historical and current situational context. It is an approach based on contextualism, a philosophy in which any event is interpreted as an ongoing act inseparable from its current and historical context and in which a radically functional approach to truth and meaning is adopted. As a variant of contextualism, RFT focuses on the construction of practical, scientific knowledge. This scientific form of contextual psychology is virtually synonymous with the philosophy of operant psychology."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_mind

A certain young lady I work with, and I, seem to have zero mutual theory of mind. I think about it often. We sort of bonded as people. Started to become potential friends. But on the job its just blind man's bluff. Causing issues.

Hard to explain. Often she tries to "get into" the other person's head. And she will do this thing that NTs often do of implying that you're lying, and that your lying in order to get out of doing task X, but I understand, wink wink. And ofcourse she only does that when I wasn't lying about anything, and when I am actually eager to do task X, so it makes me livid with anger. Angry that she calling me a liar, angry that she expects me to be delighted that she is calling me a liar, AND angry that she thinks that I am lying for the reason stated -that I am trying to get out of task X (I would be more likely to lie to get INTO doing task X than lie to get out of it. For certain reasons some tasks are plum jobs).But I rarely say anything. And bite my tongue.

This friction maybe due to me being aspie. It could be an aspie vs nt thing, OR it could be a male vs female thing, or could be just some idiosyncratic difference between the thinking styles of two individuals. Not sure. Could be a combo of all those factors.

Some folks sadly enjoy toying
with Other Folks They See as having
"Mental or Physical Deficits" Beyond Their Control.

It's A Power Play for them to
make themselves feel bigger
Than they really are; common it is;
Where i come from it's termed 'Little
Man And Or Woman Syndrome"; in the Deep (Shallow) South;
The Current President of the United States IS An EPiToME oF IT.

When You See the Issue For What it really
Is; You Move Ahead and Feel Sorry for them,
And Hope they recover for actually feeling so small themselves, within.

Ain't Got Everything to Do With Physical Size or Strength and that's for sure;
But on the other Hand; Yes, it most Definitely Does in the 'Jungles on the Streets' at 2 AM.

The whole Theory of Mind idea confuses me - too many people have inconsistent views of what it means. There needs to be a standard and robust definition.

I don't see it being inconsistent.

They should call it Guessing. How can anyone do anything but guess without asking questions. And if you have context there is no theory involved. The inconsistencies revolve around the examples I've often read. Ranging from stupidly basic to so what?. Maybe I just don't like being subjective, preferring first hand knowledge before I make assumptions. I do make snap judgements all the time but it's a matter of "odds are" and not truths.

fixed it for ya here -
conservatives don't grok how liberals think, and vice-versa. each sees the other through a cracked lens that is more reflective of their own biases.

Well the guessing is not about things like coin flips, or how fast an object falls in a vacuum . Its about how other humans are acting or thinking. That requires a person to (consciously or not) construct a model of the other person's mind inside their own mind. A lot of that in turn ends up you projecting yourself onto others, rightly or wrongly. Supposedly autistics are bad at theory of mind. Maybe they project their own autistic minds on to NTs. Or maybe autistics are just plain bad at it with anyone. The former is more often the case IMHO. Autistics are bad at TOM with NTs but not with their own. But I digress.

Monkeys in Thailand will extort food from tourists by taking your stuff and holding it for ransom. The monkey will swipe your sunglasses, or your hat, and keep until you give them a snack, and then they will give it back to you. So the monkeys have a certain "theory of mind" about humans that serves them well.