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aghogday
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22 Oct 2019, 10:39 am

In the other Words, a Twitter World makes us more like Human Worms than Snakes that Become Dragons with Love.

Okay; Let's Get Back to Science to answer the OP's Question in a Way a 'Typical' Autistic Person who hasn't
used much of their 'Right Brain Intelligence' to understand what i just did up there; that by the way is clear
as day for someone who has developed that kind of Intelligence and of course has enough Innate Propensity
to be able to develop it; as people with Non-Verbal Language Difficulties often have difficulty with Visualizing
Metaphors in the Right Brain Metaphor of Imagination; 50 Percent of Higher functioning Autistic Folks Have
been assessed with that Difficulty in some Scientific Studies that really clearly explains why still when i use
that type of Intelligence here in ArTiculating Philosophical Concepts as has been done throughout History
in what is Named Holy And Sacred Texts; because they are deeper with Meaning and Purpose more so
than concrete Labels for 'stuff' in life; that yes that kind of Language here has been described often as
Crazy for the people who see it that way; who just don't have the Hardware and Software to Understand
it; but to be clear some folks do; but to be even more clear when people are afraid of Different;
they show it in fear and remember it that way more than the Open Mindedness to Seek
a New View of Life Where Change is the Reward and Not the Fear; of course that is
Basic Human Nature in more Closed Minded Conservative Folks Versus those more
Liberal who rate High in Openness and Creativity; Yes, i am old enough to do the correlation
of ENFP Personality switching 'on a dime' over to INTJ Still too; as Experience of Life Brings Wisdom/Beauty/Truth/Love/Courage/Kindness in Changing
ThinKinG/Feeling/Perception/Judging/Actions this way
Introvert And Extrovert Both. Now; Let's Look
at the Definition of Religion at core:

From Wiki Headlining the Topic THere:

"Religion is a social-cultural system of designated behaviors and practices, morals, worldviews, texts, sanctified places, prophecies, ethics, or organizations, that relates humanity to supernatural, transcendental, or spiritual elements. However, there is no scholarly consensus over what precisely constitutes a religion"

The word religion comes from a Latin word that means “to tie or bind together".

Humans Are Social Animals; If you don't remember anything else about the Human Condition remember that.

Humans Create Symbols; Symbols are Tools; Words are Abstract Concepts and Tools that We Create to Navigate
Reasons and Art of the World We come to See in Smaller or Larger View of Existential Intelligences.

Humans Bind over Common Symbols that become Treasured and Repetitive Bonds as Symbols Ranging From
Words to Huge Temples Ornate in Art That Express Visual Deep Meaning and Purpose about General Existence;
Where there Comes an Actual Neurohormonal and Neurochemical Feeling Sensing Experience of Holy and Sacred Divine;
Some folks experience this; some folks do not; why they do or do not depends on many Nature and Nurture Realities of
Differences and Similarities; True in Light and Dark, too.

In this Way 'Religion' Brings Trust; Yes Faith that Existence is Order out of What otherwise may Be seen as Chaos And Confusion that brings Greater Fears of Constant Anxiety.

See 'those Square Angles' on Homes That We LiVE iN; That too is Religion Bringing Order out of Chaos For Real in the Symbols, the Structures We Build; yes, Including Words; Some More Figurative In Nature others Built More Concrete.

Fear Destroys all that is Good in Life; Fear Freezes Human Potential and Dilutes the Ability to Love Others, All of Nature Dark through Light, And in General Happiness in Life.

All Animals Fight Fear to Attain Homeostasis; A Balance of Life in Flow; Laser Focus And Concentration;
Conserving Energy Moving With Instead of Against Balance (Gravity); A Dance And Song of Life That Works
Eternally Now for Survive And Thrive; Past and Future Focus in General takes Away From Survive and Thrive.

Comment Continues below...


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aghogday
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22 Oct 2019, 10:40 am

We Have a Neo-Cortex that Predicts Past and Future Happiness or Terrifying Fear as Fear is
what We remember most to Survive; as Science Shows on Average 80 Percent of Thoughts are
Negative These days; Ha! No Wonder! We have the ability to Create Illusory Fears; as if Thunder
(Loud Noises) wasn't enough And Falling from High places; as Science Shows those are the only two innate
Fears Humans Are Actually Born with; i rarely experience Fear at all now; i've developed fool-proof methods
that have nothing to do with a specific term (Label) called God; they are my Religion and they work to make
All of Life Holy and Sacred DarK Through Light; Full of Meaning and Purpose as each Step becomes Dance
Each Word Becomes Song and Poetry in Free Verse Life too; my God And Religion and Herstory will be described as simple
as A Dance And Song of What i write below:

Comment Continues Below:


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aghogday
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22 Oct 2019, 10:43 am

My God Is Bigger; My God is a Smile;
And Love That Comes from Mother;
As Far As i Kind See A Happy
SMiLe No Age Time
Distance Space Matter
But Love my God my
Sunshine Smiles Hugs
Just one Look...
No Book Required
For my Mother’s
Greatest LeSSoN SMiLe...
My Fear Is Lesser That God
Is the Father i made myself
into; for my Real Father Left when
i was 3 to pursue a Wife Who Would
Make Money instead of a Mother who wanted
to Stay Home And Develop Children of Love; by Her Choice, alone.
And as the Hero Archetype Story Goes that is how i came to be; Born as Love overcoming the Dark of Fear
When Child becomes Father and Mother And Family and Friend and Lover Soul Mate to one's Self Soul Actualized
Mate to all others too; for those who are able to Hear and See the Stories/Acts that 'Heroes' bring to the rest of the Village WHerever a Village that Listens and Sees may Be Found too; They still Exist Far and Wide; Perhaps Rare but they do exist.

Comment Continues Below...


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aghogday
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22 Oct 2019, 10:45 am

Hopefully the Last Part of the Comment at Number 5 passing through Cloud Flare Jail; hehe....

Moving From 'The Story' Back to Science Again; Fowler's Stages of Faith Where His Capstone of the Pyramid Level
6 is the Similar Capstone that Maslow Developed as His Number 7 of the Development of the Human Soul to Agape Love...

Note: Fowler is a Methodist Minister; but you won't find the Term God Below; Nor will you find it in the original 2nd '10 Commandment' Intended Definition of not Using i am's Name in Vain in something as small as a 3 Letter Word. It is what i am is make the Best of it or do not; Life is kinda simple and complex like that and this.

It's Safe to Dance and Sing i live and am and do as that Capstone too; you'll find that Wise eye on a Dollar Bill too;

That Art of the Dollar Bill only has meaning to me; i find it holy and sacred; it's everywhere but rarely do folks 'see it' these days past buying 'STUFF'..;)

"Stage 0 – "Primal or Undifferentiated" faith (birth to 2 years), is characterized by an early learning of the safety of their environment (i.e. warm, safe and secure vs. hurt, neglect and abuse). If consistent nurture is experienced, one will develop a sense of trust and safety about the universe and the divine. Conversely, negative experiences will cause one to develop distrust with the universe and the divine. Transition to the next stage begins with integration of thought and language which facilitates the use of symbols in speech and play.

Stage 1 – "Intuitive-Projective" faith (ages of three to seven), is characterized by the psyche's unprotected exposure to the Unconscious, and marked by a relative fluidity of thought patterns.[4] Religion is learned mainly through experiences, stories, images, and the people that one comes in contact with.

Stage 2 – "Mythic-Literal" faith (mostly in school children), stage two persons have a strong belief in the justice and reciprocity of the universe, and their deities are almost always anthropomorphic. During this time metaphors and symbolic language are often misunderstood and are taken literally.

Stage 3 – "Synthetic-Conventional" faith (arising in adolescence; aged 12 to adulthood) characterized by conformity to authority and the religious development of a personal identity. Any conflicts with one's beliefs are ignored at this stage due to the fear of threat from inconsistencies.

Stage 4 – "Individuative-Reflective" faith (usually mid-twenties to late thirties) a stage of angst and struggle. The individual takes personal responsibility for his or her beliefs and feelings. As one is able to reflect on one's own beliefs, there is an openness to a new complexity of faith, but this also increases the awareness of conflicts in one's belief.

Stage 5 – "Conjunctive" faith (mid-life crisis) acknowledges paradox and transcendence relating reality behind the symbols of inherited systems. The individual resolves conflicts from previous stages by a complex understanding of a multidimensional, interdependent "truth" that cannot be explained by any particular statement.

Stage 6 – "Universalizing" faith, or what some might call "enlightenment". The individual would treat any person with compassion as he or she views people as from a universal community, and should be treated with universal principles of love and justice."

Note: i am no Twitter Kindergarten Teacher and i am too.

i use many TheMe And MeMe Dances And Songs in Life for Now; 'This Is What You came For' Will Do For This
And 'That' If You Don't Believe That Other Part of My 'Shadow Story' Over 2000 Selfies With Beautiful Female Smiles
in Photos included in my Personal 7.4 Million Words of Bible Song; and 12,122 Miles of Public Dance That come From
The Art of Human Dance also in 74 Months now that Verily And Surely Shows That Song is True for me too; Spiritual Energy The Dance And Song oF LiGHT; ENliGHTeNiNG iN Deed too; Special Thanks Goes out to Calvin Harris Featuring Rhianna too; true, give Thanks to those You Do Not Even know but Feel and Sense as Real. Every Bit of Gratitude You
Feel About Existence Brings a Rise in Serotonin; Free Mental Pill that Works For THANKS; all in just my opinion of
Course i will never be the one who tells another Person what they have to do in life; i'll try to help but Science
Shows that Moving Meditative Dance is Regenerative in Effect of a Real Human Fountain of Youth; and
Regenerative again Like Writing a Free Personal Bible Poem that Fully Describes a Personal Journey
to Heaven Within that stays that helps Regeneration in others increases a Person's Chances
6 times living past age 80 as a Recent Harvard Study, Surely indicates too;

LEarn about Life and ReAlly Live; Never Afraid to Die as the Gift of Life is worth Dying;
Look Within Do more; or Waste away in Oblivion; i use choices 1 and 2 for my Religion of Life;
i did Door Number 3 and found Hell not to my Liking as a Taste and Choice for Life.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_W._Fowler


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22 Oct 2019, 4:15 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
You know full that all of this is irrelevant.

Do I?

naturalplastic wrote:
We are not talking about me disproving your private thoughts.

We are talking about either one of us speaking in the public forum.

It really doesn't matter. What's the point of saying something publicly at all if it doesn't matter what you think? Yet it matters, and people still say things.

naturalplastic wrote:
If I assert that, contrary to what the tabloids say, Elvis is NOT still alive and living as the head of a voodoo cult in South America then I don't have to provide evidence for that claim of Elvis's non demise.

But there's a big problem with that. It IS possible prove Elvis is not alive.

naturalplastic wrote:
If you disagreed with me, and asserted that Elvis IS still alive and is the head of a voodoo jungle cult then it would be up to you to provide evidence for that assertion. And then we could debate about it.

OK? But you didn't bring up proving something that can possibly be proven. You brought up proving something to be impossible. That's actually quite easily done. It's possible to prove, for example, the impossibility of squaring the circle. If I turn a bowl upside down and claim that no oranges exist underneath that bowl, I can possibly prove that. If God really didn't exist, it would be possible in some sense or some way to prove that. If I claimed there were no oranges under my upturned bowl, only to uncover oranges that clearly exist, it would be impossible to prove the non-existence of oranges because the non-existence is a known impossibility (in this case, at least). To simplify what I mean: You can't prove "no oranges" when you already have "oranges." The only way I could continue supporting my claim would be to, say, move goalposts, or argue a different meaning of "oranges," similar to "no true Scotsman" fallacy. Oh, well, I meant there are no BLOOD oranges, which, as you can plainly see, none of these are blood oranges. Or...take Schroedinger's cat--I had no KNOWLEDGE whether there were oranges there or not. Therefore they existed in a state of both-and-neither simultaneously, and thus in a sense I was right: When I made the claim, there WERE no oranges there while at the same time there WERE oranges there. Or--what I meant to say was there are no grapefruits here. I mean...claims about proving the impossible being impossible, well, that's just intellectual dishonesty.

naturalplastic wrote:
You may feel it in your heart that Elvis lives, just like you are convinced in the inner sanctum of your soul that God exists, but that doesn't change the fact that in a public debate if you are making the positive assertion (that god exists, or that Elvis lives) then its up to you to prove it. Not the other person to disprove it.

I'm not the one making a positive assertion for the sake of argument, though. I'm attacking the positive assertion of SOME atheists (not all) that there absolutely is no God. I'm also criticizing the thought processes (or lack thereof) involved in coming to a pseudo-rational conclusion.

In particular is the problem with "evidence." First off, you already have evidence that God exists. You just lack the rational mind to accept it for what it is. Second, you also have a predominantly subjective interpretation of evidence to mean whatever you ("you" being a rhetorical statement, not necessarily you personally) want it to mean. Historically, it's been the trend for Christians to be averse to evolution. Sure, I have my own opinions on that. But supposing I allow for evolution in my worldview, I see it as an extension of material self-organization, a predictable sign of an intentionally ordered universe, a universe that cannot possibly exist without being purposefully designed that way. What I often see is evolution, etc., interpreted in such a way as to write God out of existence. It's illogical to interpret obvious evidence as something contrary to what it is, yet there are those who insist on it.

Like I said before, since I can show evidence that God exists, the atheist is COMPELLED to change his mind. Or if the atheist can find a counterargument or contrary evidence, then I'm COMPELLED to change my mind. Yet nobody ever does change. Why is that? Both can't be right. One is right and the other is delusional, and that's the reason. If Christians already know themselves to be right, then they have no REASON to believe otherwise. They have no NEED to argue evidence because they know that there are no rational arguments against what they already know. Atheists already know the evidence, too, and have experienced God for themselves. Looking the other way and ignoring it doesn't make the atheist position less deluded.

It's a way of thinking I struggled with for a long time, but when I went back and really started digging into the Bible, it was the Exodus experience that really spoke to me. The Israelites could visibly see some manifestation of God at all times, yet persisted in rebelling against the commandments Moses passed onto them. Pharaoh--same, and things ended badly. Unless you possess a rational mind to start with, you're not going to see any evidence at all. But then...if you have the kind of mind to understand it, really the last thing you think about is "evidence." Not that evidence isn't important at all, it's just you realize that there's more to faith than silly arguments.



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23 Oct 2019, 12:16 pm

It seems like you're claiming to know more about what atheists experience then they themselves do. That's quite the imagination you've got, but it doesn't make your imaginary friend anymore real to anyone but yourself. If your faith is merely built out of delusions like that it appears to be a form of mental illness with utterly no connection to reality.

I can't claim with absolutely certainty that no gods exist, but generally when doesn't hear hooves it's most likely that there are no horses nearby.


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24 Oct 2019, 12:04 am

funeralxempire wrote:
It seems like you're claiming to know more about what atheists experience then they themselves do. That's quite the imagination you've got, but it doesn't make your imaginary friend anymore real to anyone but yourself. If your faith is merely built out of delusions like that it appears to be a form of mental illness with utterly no connection to reality.

I can't claim with absolutely certainty that no gods exist, but generally when doesn't hear hooves it's most likely that there are no horses nearby.

I’m claiming no such thing. I’m stating that in the interactions I’ve had with atheists, this has been what I normally find. I’m not claiming to speak for all atheists.

What makes you so certain you could “hear hooves,” to borrow your words? You say you can’t claim with absolute certainty gods don’t exist. I don’t believe gods exist, either. I just believe ONE God exists. Are you also saying you cannot claim with certainty that God exists?



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24 Oct 2019, 3:18 am

AngelRho wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
It seems like you're claiming to know more about what atheists experience then they themselves do. That's quite the imagination you've got, but it doesn't make your imaginary friend anymore real to anyone but yourself. If your faith is merely built out of delusions like that it appears to be a form of mental illness with utterly no connection to reality.

I can't claim with absolutely certainty that no gods exist, but generally when doesn't hear hooves it's most likely that there are no horses nearby.

I’m claiming no such thing. I’m stating that in the interactions I’ve had with atheists, this has been what I normally find. I’m not claiming to speak for all atheists.

What makes you so certain you could “hear hooves,” to borrow your words? You say you can’t claim with absolute certainty gods don’t exist. I don’t believe gods exist, either. I just believe ONE God exists. Are you also saying you cannot claim with certainty that God exists?


Your god is only one of the many gods man has believed in, I don't believe that specific one is any more likely to exist than any other one. I can't say it with absolute certainty, but I feel it's a similar certainty to the one I have that the sun will continue to rise in the east. I'm more certain that a god with the four properties doesn't exist than I am more generally about whether or not gods exist.

If a god's existence can't impact mine, does it matter if I believe in it or not? Dead, retired, distracted, non-existent, whatever.


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24 Oct 2019, 4:12 am

funeralxempire wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
It seems like you're claiming to know more about what atheists experience then they themselves do. That's quite the imagination you've got, but it doesn't make your imaginary friend anymore real to anyone but yourself. If your faith is merely built out of delusions like that it appears to be a form of mental illness with utterly no connection to reality.

I can't claim with absolutely certainty that no gods exist, but generally when doesn't hear hooves it's most likely that there are no horses nearby.

I’m claiming no such thing. I’m stating that in the interactions I’ve had with atheists, this has been what I normally find. I’m not claiming to speak for all atheists.

What makes you so certain you could “hear hooves,” to borrow your words? You say you can’t claim with absolute certainty gods don’t exist. I don’t believe gods exist, either. I just believe ONE God exists. Are you also saying you cannot claim with certainty that God exists?


Your god is only one of the many gods man has believed in, I don't believe that specific one is any more likely to exist than any other one. I can't say it with absolute certainty, but I feel it's a similar certainty to the one I have that the sun will continue to rise in the east. I'm more certain that a god with the four properties doesn't exist than I am more generally about whether or not gods exist.

If a god's existence can't impact mine, does it matter if I believe in it or not? Dead, retired, distracted, non-existent, whatever.


Have you ever thought that perhaps God chooses not to impact you? I'm not trying to start an argument, but this particular portion of the argument has always fascinated me. All of the text I've read suggests that I must act first, i.e. seek, draw nigh unto, etc... For all intents and purposes God's existence didn't impact mine either, until I made the first of a series of moves. And it really didn't impact mine while I was lying to myself.


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24 Oct 2019, 6:25 am

funeralxempire wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
It seems like you're claiming to know more about what atheists experience then they themselves do. That's quite the imagination you've got, but it doesn't make your imaginary friend anymore real to anyone but yourself. If your faith is merely built out of delusions like that it appears to be a form of mental illness with utterly no connection to reality.

I can't claim with absolutely certainty that no gods exist, but generally when doesn't hear hooves it's most likely that there are no horses nearby.

I’m claiming no such thing. I’m stating that in the interactions I’ve had with atheists, this has been what I normally find. I’m not claiming to speak for all atheists.

What makes you so certain you could “hear hooves,” to borrow your words? You say you can’t claim with absolute certainty gods don’t exist. I don’t believe gods exist, either. I just believe ONE God exists. Are you also saying you cannot claim with certainty that God exists?


Your god is only one of the many gods man has believed in, I don't believe that specific one is any more likely to exist than any other one. I can't say it with absolute certainty, but I feel it's a similar certainty to the one I have that the sun will continue to rise in the east. I'm more certain that a god with the four properties doesn't exist than I am more generally about whether or not gods exist.

If a god's existence can't impact mine, does it matter if I believe in it or not? Dead, retired, distracted, non-existent, whatever.

Ok, so how do you know with any amount of certainty that God’s existence can’t impact yours? Because you are something God created, I’d say that’s pretty heavy impact.



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24 Oct 2019, 10:31 am

Persephone29 wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
It seems like you're claiming to know more about what atheists experience then they themselves do. That's quite the imagination you've got, but it doesn't make your imaginary friend anymore real to anyone but yourself. If your faith is merely built out of delusions like that it appears to be a form of mental illness with utterly no connection to reality.

I can't claim with absolutely certainty that no gods exist, but generally when doesn't hear hooves it's most likely that there are no horses nearby.

I’m claiming no such thing. I’m stating that in the interactions I’ve had with atheists, this has been what I normally find. I’m not claiming to speak for all atheists.

What makes you so certain you could “hear hooves,” to borrow your words? You say you can’t claim with absolute certainty gods don’t exist. I don’t believe gods exist, either. I just believe ONE God exists. Are you also saying you cannot claim with certainty that God exists?


Your god is only one of the many gods man has believed in, I don't believe that specific one is any more likely to exist than any other one. I can't say it with absolute certainty, but I feel it's a similar certainty to the one I have that the sun will continue to rise in the east. I'm more certain that a god with the four properties doesn't exist than I am more generally about whether or not gods exist.

If a god's existence can't impact mine, does it matter if I believe in it or not? Dead, retired, distracted, non-existent, whatever.


Have you ever thought that perhaps God chooses not to impact you? I'm not trying to start an argument, but this particular portion of the argument has always fascinated me. All of the text I've read suggests that I must act first, i.e. seek, draw nigh unto, etc... For all intents and purposes God's existence didn't impact mine either, until I made the first of a series of moves. And it really didn't impact mine while I was lying to myself.

Excellent points.

One main point I'm getting at is exactly what you said: "I was lying to myself." The problem is, how do we know that we're lying to ourselves?

If someone is mentally ill, their delusional world is just as much real to them as our world is to us. For them, the world makes perfect sense. It's EVERYONE ELSE who's crazy. If a mentally ill person cannot rely on his own mind, he has to depend on someone else who is capable of sorting out the delusion from reality. That REQUIRES faith. There's no getting around it. Maybe it's a friend who has always cared about him, maybe its a medical professional...but for whatever reason nobody can fully understand, this person is someone who is real that the delusional comes to trust. I say "nobody can fully understand," because how does he know anything about his friend or helper? For all he knows, that could simply be another delusion. But once he starts down a path where someone can SHOW him reality and sort out the delusions, he can begin to understand the world as it is. That doesn't mean he is "cured," but it's at least some level of mental healing that can allow him SOME measure of rationality. The mentally ill person cannot claim to know anything without putting faith in someone who can.

What you find, using that as an analogy, is that certainty in knowledge is a requirement for knowledge. Because our world is dynamic and we are not omniscient, there's no possible way we can claim to know anything. xfempire claims he does not know with absolute certainty that God exists (he avoids referring to the singular God and straw-mans me into the premise of believing in god(s) in a more general sense. Does "god" exist? No, and I never expressed belief in one. I'm not taking the bait, so for the sake of argument I'm substituting God and making full disclosure of that for the sake of clarity. I don't feel guilty about it, either, because since I NEVER made that claim, I'm trying to keep THIS part of the discussion on track). I would go a step further and say xfempire doesn't know ANYTHING with any certainty. If there is no such thing as certain knowledge, then there's no reason a Christian should believe anything an unbeliever says.

If an unbeliever does happen to make a claim that accidentally happens to be true, i.e. "the sky is blue," etc., it's no less true just because he says it. It just means he can't claim to know it. If he DOES claim to know it, and if he really does know it, it's only because that's knowledge that's been given to him through divine revelation. His mind is incapable of reaching rational conclusions on its own, so unless he's omniscient, he can't truthfully claim to know anything at all. The only exception is if an omniscient being, i.e. God, reveals anything. If, and I stress IF, an atheist can honestly, truthfully, claim he knows ANYTHING, it's only because he knows God. Therefore, if he knows God and yet refuses to acknowledge God, he's got no excuse.



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24 Oct 2019, 11:40 am

AngelRho wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
It seems like you're claiming to know more about what atheists experience then they themselves do. That's quite the imagination you've got, but it doesn't make your imaginary friend anymore real to anyone but yourself. If your faith is merely built out of delusions like that it appears to be a form of mental illness with utterly no connection to reality.

I can't claim with absolutely certainty that no gods exist, but generally when doesn't hear hooves it's most likely that there are no horses nearby.

I’m claiming no such thing. I’m stating that in the interactions I’ve had with atheists, this has been what I normally find. I’m not claiming to speak for all atheists.

What makes you so certain you could “hear hooves,” to borrow your words? You say you can’t claim with absolute certainty gods don’t exist. I don’t believe gods exist, either. I just believe ONE God exists. Are you also saying you cannot claim with certainty that God exists?


Your god is only one of the many gods man has believed in, I don't believe that specific one is any more likely to exist than any other one. I can't say it with absolute certainty, but I feel it's a similar certainty to the one I have that the sun will continue to rise in the east. I'm more certain that a god with the four properties doesn't exist than I am more generally about whether or not gods exist.

If a god's existence can't impact mine, does it matter if I believe in it or not? Dead, retired, distracted, non-existent, whatever.

Ok, so how do you know with any amount of certainty that God’s existence can’t impact yours? Because you are something God created, I’d say that’s pretty heavy impact.


I don't know about you, but I was 'created' via sexual reproduction when my parents bumped uglies. No supernatural involvement was required. If you're going to insist your god was involved, you'll need to support that claim.

Persephone29 wrote:
Have you ever thought that perhaps God chooses not to impact you? I'm not trying to start an argument, but this particular portion of the argument has always fascinated me. All of the text I've read suggests that I must act first, i.e. seek, draw nigh unto, etc... For all intents and purposes God's existence didn't impact mine either, until I made the first of a series of moves. And it really didn't impact mine while I was lying to myself.


Why I assume I have never sought?

It seems like you're both relying on significant assumptions about me and God to make your case, but since the underlying assumptions are incorrect your conclusions are also incorrect.


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24 Oct 2019, 12:27 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
funeralxempire wrote:
It seems like you're claiming to know more about what atheists experience then they themselves do. That's quite the imagination you've got, but it doesn't make your imaginary friend anymore real to anyone but yourself. If your faith is merely built out of delusions like that it appears to be a form of mental illness with utterly no connection to reality.

I can't claim with absolutely certainty that no gods exist, but generally when doesn't hear hooves it's most likely that there are no horses nearby.

I’m claiming no such thing. I’m stating that in the interactions I’ve had with atheists, this has been what I normally find. I’m not claiming to speak for all atheists.

What makes you so certain you could “hear hooves,” to borrow your words? You say you can’t claim with absolute certainty gods don’t exist. I don’t believe gods exist, either. I just believe ONE God exists. Are you also saying you cannot claim with certainty that God exists?


Your god is only one of the many gods man has believed in, I don't believe that specific one is any more likely to exist than any other one. I can't say it with absolute certainty, but I feel it's a similar certainty to the one I have that the sun will continue to rise in the east. I'm more certain that a god with the four properties doesn't exist than I am more generally about whether or not gods exist.

If a god's existence can't impact mine, does it matter if I believe in it or not? Dead, retired, distracted, non-existent, whatever.

Ok, so how do you know with any amount of certainty that God’s existence can’t impact yours? Because you are something God created, I’d say that’s pretty heavy impact.


I don't know about you, but I was 'created' via sexual reproduction when my parents bumped uglies. No supernatural involvement was required. If you're going to insist your god was involved, you'll need to support that claim.

Try supporting your own. You don't know with absolute certainty that's how you were made.

funeralxempire wrote:
Persephone29 wrote:
Have you ever thought that perhaps God chooses not to impact you? I'm not trying to start an argument, but this particular portion of the argument has always fascinated me. All of the text I've read suggests that I must act first, i.e. seek, draw nigh unto, etc... For all intents and purposes God's existence didn't impact mine either, until I made the first of a series of moves. And it really didn't impact mine while I was lying to myself.


Why I assume I have never sought?

It seems like you're both relying on significant assumptions about me and God to make your case, but since the underlying assumptions are incorrect your conclusions are also incorrect.

If you were ever seeking something, what was it?



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24 Oct 2019, 12:36 pm

AngelRho wrote:
Try supporting your own. You don't know with absolute certainty that's how you were made.


Really? Go on...


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24 Oct 2019, 1:04 pm

funeralxempire wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
Try supporting your own. You don't know with absolute certainty that's how you were made.


Really? Go on...

Do you know with absolute certainty that's how you were made? If so, explain how you know that.