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Why do westerners hate freedom?

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RetroGamer87
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31 Oct 2019, 2:33 am

The_Walrus wrote:
sly279 wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
sly279 wrote:
Is this thread about why do westerners hate freedom or why do westerners hate liberal governments?
Cause liberal doesn’t equal freedom.
Seems few here seem to think it does.

When I talk about liberalism, I mean the political philosophy which believes in maximising freedom, democracy, and equality before the law. I sometimes use it in a broad sense (referring to basically everyone from Bernie Sanders to Mitch McConnell - most people believe that the three things I outlined above are Good) and sometimes in a narrow sense (referring more to politicians who also believe in promotion of civil and human rights, capitalism, intersectional feminism, internationalism, secularism, etc.). I do appreciate that it isn't always clear which sense I am using it in.

Neither of them support freedom Bernie least so

They do in a very loose sense. They don't want to lock you up without a fair trial, they support the First and the Fifth, they think slavery is bad, they support democracy to an extent. That's what I mean by "liberal in the broad sense".

A liberal in the narrow sense is someone who is committed to maximising liberty throughout the political sphere. They have a nuanced understanding of what liberty is - they're not libertarians who think the solution is just to shut down the government, they think the government should help people stay alive and find good jobs and invest in infrastructure - but actually in a lot of ways I think you'd feel happier supporting a liberal, an actual liberal, than you do with Trump, sly. You've certainly got a lot of liberal instincts.

Oh no. According to some of the conservatives I've talked to Liberals hate freedom :lol:


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RushKing
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31 Oct 2019, 8:48 pm

RetroGamer87 wrote:
RushKing wrote:
Growing up as a kid I was indoctrinated into believing capitalism was the "good" thing, and that the only alternative was soviet style centrally planed economies.

I'm listening. Tell me about the third and fourth type of economy.

I'm going to save us some time here. I'll point you towards some resources.

NonCompete put out a video series that explains what an anarchist economy may look like. This is probably the easiest place to start.





If you are interested in diving deeper, there are many books available. I would suggest Anarchy Works and an old classic; The Conquest of Bread.