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Antrax
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17 Nov 2019, 6:39 pm

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/15/politics ... index.html

Notable quotes:

"This is still a country that is less revolutionary than it is interested in improvement. They like seeing things improved, but the average American doesn't think you have to completely tear down the system and remake it, I think it is important for us not to lose sight of that."

"My one cautionary note is I think it is very important for all the candidates who are running at every level to pay some attention to where voters actually are... [candidates shouldn't be deluded] into thinking that the resistance to certain approaches to things is simply because voters haven't heard a bold enough proposal."


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techstepgenr8tion
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17 Nov 2019, 6:43 pm

It's been quite interesting to hear him come out increasingly in this regard. Last speech I heard a caption from he was at University of Chicago speaking out against the present formulation of wokeness along very similar lines to Noam Chomsky.


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kraftiekortie
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17 Nov 2019, 6:48 pm

He’s speaking against the fallacy of extremism.

And about how we’re still a strong nation.



ASPartOfMe
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17 Nov 2019, 7:06 pm

Ok Boomer

But will enough people listen and act on his advice in a consistent manor to matter?


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18 Nov 2019, 2:08 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:
Ok Boomer

But will enough people listen and act on his advice in a consistent manor to matter?


The people afraid of/unwilling to have a revolution are the bourgeois middle class. The question is: is there enough left of that?
Or is there a larger number of people with nothing to lose. (For this election, I'm guessing the former. For the one after that, I'm guessing the latter)


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The_Walrus
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18 Nov 2019, 3:27 pm

shlaifu wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Ok Boomer

But will enough people listen and act on his advice in a consistent manor to matter?


The people afraid of/unwilling to have a revolution are the bourgeois middle class. The question is: is there enough left of that?
Or is there a larger number of people with nothing to lose. (For this election, I'm guessing the former. For the one after that, I'm guessing the latter)

Ethnic minority voters of all classes also tend to be politically moderate, and they are only becoming more important.



shlaifu
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18 Nov 2019, 6:26 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Ok Boomer

But will enough people listen and act on his advice in a consistent manor to matter?


The people afraid of/unwilling to have a revolution are the bourgeois middle class. The question is: is there enough left of that?
Or is there a larger number of people with nothing to lose. (For this election, I'm guessing the former. For the one after that, I'm guessing the latter)

Ethnic minority voters of all classes also tend to be politically moderate, and they are only becoming more important.


Hmm. You may be right.
I read a comment somewhere though that black voters don't particularly like Biden, but just think he's the most realistic, least awful option. Obviously, that's anecdotal and a random thing I read somewhere. But I wonder to what extent minority votes are moderate votes for tactical reasons, and if it stayed like that, were minority voters given a realistic yet more radical option, possibly even a person with an ethnic background (looking at AOC. But from my European perspective, she's hardly a radical anyway).


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Antrax
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18 Nov 2019, 8:11 pm

shlaifu wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
shlaifu wrote:
ASPartOfMe wrote:
Ok Boomer

But will enough people listen and act on his advice in a consistent manor to matter?


The people afraid of/unwilling to have a revolution are the bourgeois middle class. The question is: is there enough left of that?
Or is there a larger number of people with nothing to lose. (For this election, I'm guessing the former. For the one after that, I'm guessing the latter)

Ethnic minority voters of all classes also tend to be politically moderate, and they are only becoming more important.


Hmm. You may be right.
I read a comment somewhere though that black voters don't particularly like Biden, but just think he's the most realistic, least awful option. Obviously, that's anecdotal and a random thing I read somewhere. But I wonder to what extent minority votes are moderate votes for tactical reasons, and if it stayed like that, were minority voters given a realistic yet more radical option, possibly even a person with an ethnic background (looking at AOC. But from my European perspective, she's hardly a radical anyway).


Not particularly liking Biden but thinking he's the most realistic least awful option is pretty much the stance of most moderate democrats. Its why he has consistently led in nationwide and polls in states like South Carolina.

The tactical voting you've read about is african american voters thinking Biden is more electable than someone like Cory Booker. They actually prefer him to candidates like Warren and Sanders.


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18 Nov 2019, 8:44 pm

From a strategic perspective in the short term, radical leftism might not yield positive results at the polls. However, it's probably a good strategy over the long term because the young generation now is eating it up with a spoon. Since they're immersed in leftism centered academia from a very young age, they're comfortable with it. They want it. They believe it's the only correct answer. Some of them may even advance to positions of power and benefit from being part of such a future power structure (ie "all animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others"). Most who won't benefit will continue to support it because that's what they've always known.



Antrax
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19 Nov 2019, 1:08 am

Magna wrote:
From a strategic perspective in the short term, radical leftism might not yield positive results at the polls. However, it's probably a good strategy over the long term because the young generation now is eating it up with a spoon. Since they're immersed in leftism centered academia from a very young age, they're comfortable with it. They want it. They believe it's the only correct answer. Some of them may even advance to positions of power and benefit from being part of such a future power structure (ie "all animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others"). Most who won't benefit will continue to support it because that's what they've always known.


I've noticed that for years everyone has been projecting "when the younger generation grows up the right will be dead because the young are so much liberal." Invariably when said young generation grows up they become the new conservatives.

Either society is perpetually drifting leftward, or people become more conservative as they age. Or a bit of both. I think its fair to say todays 60 year olds are not as left leaning as the youth of the 60s. I think its also fair to say they are left of the 60 year olds of the 60s.


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The_Walrus
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20 Nov 2019, 8:28 am

Antrax wrote:

Not particularly liking Biden but thinking he's the most realistic least awful option is pretty much the stance of most moderate democrats. Its why he has consistently led in nationwide and polls in states like South Carolina.

The tactical voting you've read about is african american voters thinking Biden is more electable than someone like Cory Booker. They actually prefer him to candidates like Warren and Sanders.

That's pretty much my stance too. Biden's... fine. I'd rather have Harris or Booker, but they're both struggling in the polls. I'd be worried about Buttigieg going up against Trump.

Think the best that can be hoped for is a Biden-Harris (or Biden-Booker, or even Biden-Castro, I'm not fussy) ticket, with Biden retiring triumphantly after four years to allow the VP to take a run at the next eight.



shlaifu
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20 Nov 2019, 8:43 pm

Antrax wrote:
Magna wrote:
From a strategic perspective in the short term, radical leftism might not yield positive results at the polls. However, it's probably a good strategy over the long term because the young generation now is eating it up with a spoon. Since they're immersed in leftism centered academia from a very young age, they're comfortable with it. They want it. They believe it's the only correct answer. Some of them may even advance to positions of power and benefit from being part of such a future power structure (ie "all animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others"). Most who won't benefit will continue to support it because that's what they've always known.


I've noticed that for years everyone has been projecting "when the younger generation grows up the right will be dead because the young are so much liberal." Invariably when said young generation grows up they become the new conservatives.

Either society is perpetually drifting leftward, or people become more conservative as they age. Or a bit of both. I think its fair to say todays 60 year olds are not as left leaning as the youth of the 60s. I think its also fair to say they are left of the 60 year olds of the 60s.


A bit of both, definitely.
But you need to make a division between socially liberal and economic ideas.
Socially, we've become quite liberal in the west, from gay marriage to marihuana legalization etc. - economically, we moved away from social democratic policies towards neoliberal globalization.

So, we haven't exactly moved left OR conservative, but in the direction of turbo-capitalist neoliberalism.
Depending on where you stand, that may be left of you, socially, or right of you, economically.


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24 Nov 2019, 11:29 am

Obama Warns Against ‘Purity Tests’ in the Democratic Primary

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Former President Barack Obama warned Democrats on Thursday against adopting “purity tests” in the presidential primary and said any adversity the candidates face in the contest will make whoever emerges an even stronger nominee.

Obama spoke to about 100 donors during a question-and-answer session with Democratic National Committee Chairman Tom Perez in Los Altos Hills, California. The event came a day after the fifth Democratic presidential primary in Atlanta and as the 17-person field continues to expand, with the expected entry of former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg in the coming days.

Until recently, Obama largely refrained from opining publicly on the Democratic contest, and his move from the sidelines comes at a moment of deep uncertainty for the party. Many are jittery about the uneven candidacy of his former Vice President Joe Biden, questioning whether Sens. Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren can defeat President Donald Trump next year, and skeptical of whether Pete Buttigieg, the South Bend, Indiana, mayor who is surging in Iowa, can appeal to black voters that are a crucial Democratic voting bloc.

“We will not win just by increasing the turnout of the people who already agree with us completely on everything,” Obama said. “Which is why I am always suspicious of purity tests during elections. Because, you know what, the country is complicated.”

Obama urged Democrats to “chill out,” saying, “The truth of the matter is that every candidate on that stage believes we should provide” better health care and education and address climate change.

He also noted the historic diversity of the Democratic field, which includes five women, and has three black candidates, a Latino man, an Asian-American man and a gay man. He compared that to his own election as the nation’s first black president.

“We have a number of women candidates and we have one gay candidate. And those candidates are going to have barriers if they win the nomination, or they win the general election — just like I did,” Obama told donors. “You can overcome that resistance if the way you are framing these issues and messages indicate, ‘Look, I’m part of an American tradition … of opening up opportunity.”

In recent weeks Obama has sought to play both referee and uplifting elder statesman. He’s cautioned “woke” activists against embracing “cancel culture” and urged the party to not adopt positions that could cost them in the general election.

“That’s not bringing about change,” he said during a recent Obama Foundation event. “If all you are doing is casting stones, you’re probably not going to get that far.”

At the same time, he has offered reassurances that a spirited primary will make the eventual nominee a stronger candidate

Elections are ultimately won by offering a message that appeals to voters across the demographic spectrum, Obama said.

“We should not be somehow thinking either we’re going for our base voter of young hipsters and African Americans and single women versus Joe lunch-pail, hard-hat guy,” he said. “Because you know what? … I’ve had conversations with all those groups, and they share common dreams and common hopes and a vision for what a fair, just America would look like.”

The fundraiser Thursday was held at the home of Karla Jurvetson, a prominent Democratic donor and Silicon Valley philanthropist. The event raised more than $3 million for the Democratic National Committee, according to a senior party officials.


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