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Tequila
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19 Dec 2019, 3:17 pm

Why would you defend the rights of "sex workers" if you weren't one yourself? If you have to pay to sleep with someone, they have no interest in you. It's in their interest to push this argument, not that of autistic people.

Sex workers are heavies. These people do all kinds - they aren't you.



MushroomPrincess
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19 Dec 2019, 3:21 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
I worry because you can’t usually report a crime until after one has been committed.

Yes but it's a lot easier for someone to commit a crime when they know it probably won't be reported or taken seriously by police. This is exactly what rape culture is. SWERF rhetoric is rape culture.



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19 Dec 2019, 3:33 pm

Putting some of these issues aside for a moment, why are you and your friends currently “escorts” when it’s illegal and could carry a prison sentence, if you don’t mind me asking?


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19 Dec 2019, 3:49 pm

I'd like to see it legalised and regulated for the sake of the workers. I do see why some people would want to pay for sex with someone they don't love. It would be a win win situation for both parties.

My friend's mum was a dominatrix. Occasionally sheepish looking buisness men would come around for a good spanking. You coyld see they really needed to get it out of their sysrem. There's a single mum in my town who pays. She doesn't want a boyfriend.

We're allowed to buy tobacco, or taxes get spent on bombs. wtf



Tequila
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19 Dec 2019, 4:18 pm

domineekee wrote:
I'd like to see it legalised and regulated for the sake of the workers. I do see why some people would want to pay for sex with someone they don't love.


Why pay? If you don't love them, you're begging to sleep with someone that has no interest in you.



Sahn
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19 Dec 2019, 4:46 pm

Tequila wrote:
domineekee wrote:
I'd like to see it legalised and regulated for the sake of the workers. I do see why some people would want to pay for sex with someone they don't love.


Why pay? If you don't love them, you're begging to sleep with someone that has no interest in you.

Some people are lonley, some have special needs that are hard to cater for, some miss having sex but don't have anyone, some people have very high sex drive.

Let's face it, if the thread was about friends with benefits, people wouldn't be getting right up their ivory towers and on their moral high horses. Regulated, convenient, consentual, I don't see the problem.

Edit: With some couples one partner can't have sex. Could be helpful to take pressure off their relationship.

People cheat on each other just to have sex outside relationships.

People meet in car parks and allys to have sex with strangers.

Do we need to know why?



Last edited by Sahn on 19 Dec 2019, 5:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The_Walrus
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19 Dec 2019, 4:58 pm

Tequila wrote:
Why would you defend the rights of "sex workers" if you weren't one yourself? If you have to pay to sleep with someone, they have no interest in you. It's in their interest to push this argument, not that of autistic people.

Sex workers are heavies. These people do all kinds - they aren't you.

I’m not a drug user but I believe people should be allowed to do drugs.

I’m not a driver but I believe people should be allowed to drive cars if they are qualified and insured.

I don’t use aeroplanes but I believe people should be allowed to.

I don’t drink alcohol but I believe people should be allowed to.

I don’t have tattoos but I believe people should be allowed to.

I don’t eat chicken but I believe people should be allowed to.

I don’t practice a religion but I believe people should be allowed to.

I don’t smoke but I believe people should be allowed to.

I don’t own a gun but I believe people should be allowed to.

I don’t buy or sell sexual services but I believe people should be allowed to.

In short, I don’t think it is the appropriate role of government to enforce my personal preferences except to defend human rights. The evidence suggests that legal and regulated markets are safer for all involved than underground black markets.

Sure, you’re probably going to enjoy sex more if you have it with someone you love. But it is none of my business who you screw and I certainly don’t want the government in my bedroom, except to keep me safe and keep others safe from me.



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19 Dec 2019, 5:27 pm

Borromeo wrote:
I think it would be a good idea to end slut-shaming, but it would also be a good idea to end sex work. I've got a lot of misgivings with the whole concept of people using other people for a need--whether that be sexual pleasure, companionship, what have you. Crusty old atheist Terry Pratchett, one of the finest comic novelists of recent years, wrote "Evil is what happens when we start treating people as things."

Impractical, but just my thoughts. I just don't like the idea of using people.


From a moral POV I agree with you 100%. If you or anyone else could come with an efficient way of eradicating this phenomenon I would back it up without hesitation.

Unfortunately, though, prostitution isn't going anywhere and I take the pragmatical POV that if you can't make things perfect, that shouldn't stop you from trying to make them better.

I live in a country where prostitution is legal and highly regulated and I support the laws. The workers don't walk the street and don't have to rely on seedy pimps for protection; they need valid IDs, have a proper working contract and the respective establishments have efficient security, a good relationship with the police and strict rules about illegal substances, health checks etc - these didn't eradicate human trafficking or other forms of exploitation but they improved the situation significantly. Their employees pay taxes and get both the obligations and benefits any other tax-payers get, including health care, vacation and sick days etc.

To some extent, this also removed some of the stigma, as in the eyes of the law, sex workers are just as respectable and entitled to be protected as any other citizen.

Granted, some people are still going to look down on them and think or refer to them as "those people", but prejudice is another thing that isn't going anywhere any time soon (I'd say ever).

Tequila wrote:
Why would you defend the rights of "sex workers" if you weren't one yourself? If you have to pay to sleep with someone, they have no interest in you. It's in their interest to push this argument, not that of autistic people.

Sex workers are heavies. These people do all kinds - they aren't you.


I'm not one nor have I ever used such services - I support their rights for similar reasons to those mentioned by The Walrus and also because it is in my own interest to live in a healthier, safer society for everybody, not just myself.

Blazingstar also brings an interesting aspect into this: sex therapists. I would really like to see this practice become more common and being covered by health insurance. A lot of sexual crimes start with some form or another of sexual dysfunction or unhealthy/unrealistic attitudes and ideas or fixations in relation to sex. And for people who might actually enjoy this kind of work or feel they have a talent for it, I also don't feel inclined to restrict their choices for neither pragmatical nor ethical reasons.


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19 Dec 2019, 5:37 pm

IsabellaLinton wrote:
MushroomPrincess wrote:
Is anyone else here a supporter of Sex Worker Rights? I think it needs to be decriminalized, destigmatized, legalized, and normalized. Some of my best friends are sex workers and I think the marginalization we face is really sh***y.


This topic has been derailed to shame sex workers, suggesting they should find "another line of work" to please a feminist moral imperative. I find many of the comments on this thread sarcastic, sexist against all genders, and presumptuous against autonomous, intelligent people who choose to be sex workers of their own free will. There are several misconceptions presented including:

a) That most sex workers are helpless, victimised females who need to be saved
b) That sex workers are forced into their chosen career like slaves
c) That all of the people who hire female sex workers are male
d) That said males are aggressive, immoral, exploitative and demeaning of female sex workers
e) That women should and must value sex as an emotional expression, unable to detach their feelings
f) That involuntarily celibate men should be shamed for wanting sex
g) That people of any gender or ability who wish to hire a sex worker should be shamed
h) That the workers themselves should be shamed
i) That a female sex worker cannot be a feminist
j) That women's bodily autonomy should protected regarding abortion, but shamed regarding sexuality or sex work

I read an earlier thread saying that women should not be shamed for losing their virginity. I am confused why now they are being shamed for making autonomous choices regarding their bodies and their personal empowerment.

The OP asks for comments from people who would like to discuss and support the rights of sex workers. She did not ask for sex workers of any gender to be dismissed, pitied or invalidated by virtue signallers who think they know best.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/co ... 44176.html


I don't like to see any ideologies playing a major part in how we treat the issue and I think it unavoidably leads to hypocrisy and double standards.

Obviously, this is going to be controversial and contentious for some people, but on the other hand, there were quite a few participants in this thread whom I know to have very strong moral values, yet still have shown compassion and a more complex/less visceral understanding of the situation and didn't use demeaning language or shown contempt for sex workers even if they might not support the practice.


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Tequila
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19 Dec 2019, 6:22 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
Tequila wrote:
Why would you defend the rights of "sex workers" if you weren't one yourself? If you have to pay to sleep with someone, they have no interest in you. It's in their interest to push this argument, not that of autistic people.

Sex workers are heavies. These people do all kinds - they aren't you.

I’m not a drug user but I believe people should be allowed to do drugs.

I’m not a driver but I believe people should be allowed to drive cars if they are qualified and insured.

I don’t use aeroplanes but I believe people should be allowed to.

I don’t drink alcohol but I believe people should be allowed to.

I don’t have tattoos but I believe people should be allowed to.

I don’t eat chicken but I believe people should be allowed to.

I don’t practice a religion but I believe people should be allowed to.

I don’t smoke but I believe people should be allowed to.

I don’t own a gun but I believe people should be allowed to.

I don’t buy or sell sexual services but I believe people should be allowed to.


I'm not saying that they shouldn't be allowed to, I'm saying that if there's money involved then there's a good chance the man is being exploited.

It's not on a par with chicken or smoking, it's more on a par with paying to do work.



Tequila
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19 Dec 2019, 6:27 pm

BenderRodriguez wrote:
Borromeo wrote:
I think it would be a good idea to end slut-shaming, but it would also be a good idea to end sex work. I've got a lot of misgivings with the whole concept of people using other people for a need--whether that be sexual pleasure, companionship, what have you. Crusty old atheist Terry Pratchett, one of the finest comic novelists of recent years, wrote "Evil is what happens when we start treating people as things."

Impractical, but just my thoughts. I just don't like the idea of using people.


From a moral POV I agree with you 100%. If you or anyone else could come with an efficient way of eradicating this phenomenon I would back it up without hesitation.

Unfortunately, though, prostitution isn't going anywhere and I take the pragmatical POV that if you can't make things perfect, that shouldn't stop you from trying to make them better.

I live in a country where prostitution is legal and highly regulated and I support the laws. The workers don't walk the street and don't have to rely on seedy pimps for protection; they need valid IDs, have a proper working contract and the respective establishments have efficient security, a good relationship with the police and strict rules about illegal substances, health checks etc - these didn't eradicate human trafficking or other forms of exploitation but they improved the situation significantly. Their employees pay taxes and get both the obligations and benefits any other tax-payers get, including health care, vacation and sick days etc.

To some extent, this also removed some of the stigma, as in the eyes of the law, sex workers are just as respectable and entitled to be protected as any other citizen.

Granted, some people are still going to look down on them and think or refer to them as "those people", but prejudice is another thing that isn't going anywhere any time soon (I'd say ever).

Tequila wrote:
Why would you defend the rights of "sex workers" if you weren't one yourself? If you have to pay to sleep with someone, they have no interest in you. It's in their interest to push this argument, not that of autistic people.

Sex workers are heavies. These people do all kinds - they aren't you.


I'm not one nor have I ever used such services - I support their rights for similar reasons to those mentioned by The Walrus and also because it is in my own interest to live in a healthier, safer society for everybody, not just myself.

Blazingstar also brings an interesting aspect into this: sex therapists. I would really like to see this practice become more common and being covered by health insurance. A lot of sexual crimes start with some form or another of sexual dysfunction or unhealthy/unrealistic attitudes and ideas or fixations in relation to sex. And for people who might actually enjoy this kind of work or feel they have a talent for it, I also don't feel inclined to restrict their choices for neither pragmatical nor ethical reasons.


You don't really want sex workers or therapists, they're tough people, the type that appear in porn. Why advocate for them? Legal by all means but why want them?



Tequila
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19 Dec 2019, 6:37 pm

domineekee wrote:
some have special needs that are hard to cater for


Why are they being alienated from other people? They shouldn't be anywhere near an exploiter or an aggressor.



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19 Dec 2019, 6:39 pm

Tequila wrote:

You don't really want sex workers or therapists, they're tough people, the type that appear in porn. Why advocate for them? Legal by all means but why want them per se?

How do you know what kind of people they are? :? I don't have personal experience with either category.

What I've heard locally about sex therapists is that by no means they are "tough people", but people trained to address certain forms of sexual dysfunction or other sex-related problems in a caring manner. They will not necessarily even have sex with their clients (some do) but concentrate on issues like intimacy and a healthy attitude towards sex. From what I understand, sex workers that would want to specialise in helping disabled people also get psychological training. Both need a license to practice and as I said, these things are carefully and quite heavily regulated.

Me, personally? No, it's not something I need. I do believe that other people's lives could be improved by it and particularly the therapists could help prevent some sex-crimes or warped attitudes towards sex, including those influenced by certain forms of porn.


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Tequila
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19 Dec 2019, 6:48 pm

BenderRodriguez wrote:
How do you know what kind of people they are? :? I don't have personal experience with either category.


I know them personally. You probably do, but they aren't telling you. They're arrogant people. You want you.

BenderRodriguez wrote:
What I've heard locally about sex therapists is that by no means they are "tough people", but people trained to address certain forms of sexual dysfunction or other sex-related problems in a caring manner.


Dysfunction? Doctor will fix you.

BenderRodriguez wrote:
They will not necessarily even have sex with their clients (some do) but concentrate on issues like intimacy and a healthy attitude towards sex. From what I understand, sex workers that would want to specialise in helping disabled people also get psychological training. Both need a license to practice and as I said, these things are carefully and quite heavily regulated.


Why? They get off on power.



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19 Dec 2019, 6:59 pm

Some people (who shall remain nameless) think that prostitution should not be legalized, not because of ideology but because of personal beliefs and values based, in part, on observation.

Since prostitution is a CRIME in the US that’s considered worthy of jail time or a hefty fine, those same people (who I’ve already mentioned) do not believe in supporting or endorsing the aforementioned criminal activity in any capacity. They think we should call a spade a spade.

None of this really matters because prostitution is NOT going to be legalized in the US anytime soon. If individuals engaging in the crime want to stay in the US and avoid jail time, they might want to seriously reconsider their career goals.

That’s just how it is. We don’t have to like it but that’s not going to change anything. It’s not helpful to dwell on what we can’t change but to make informed choices based on how things are.


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19 Dec 2019, 8:41 pm

As an aside, there is a novel, The Kiss Quotient, in which an autistic woman who has had three decidedly unpleasant experiences with sex decides to hire an escort to teach her about sex. And then they fall in love. Sort of a Pretty Woman in reverse.

Seems to be in the romance novel vein. I only read part of the sample you can download for free from Amazon.


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