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Bradleigh
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19 Dec 2019, 10:33 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Some people (who shall remain nameless) think that prostitution should not be legalized, not because of ideology but because of personal beliefs and values based, in part, on observation.

Since prostitution is a CRIME in the US that’s considered worthy of jail time or a hefty fine, those same people (who I’ve already mentioned) do not believe in supporting or endorsing the aforementioned criminal activity in any capacity. They think we should call a spade a spade.

None of this really matters because prostitution is NOT going to be legalized in the US anytime soon. If individuals engaging in the crime want to stay in the US and avoid jail time, they might want to seriously reconsider their career goals.

That’s just how it is. We don’t have to like it but that’s not going to change anything. It’s not helpful to dwell on what we can’t change but to make informed choices based on how things are.


Well, gay sex in any form was not too long ago considered a crime, and would see similar punishments. People did, and still do, say that it was in concept immoral, so would be anyone who would want to scratch such itches. I certainly don't want to kick up an initiative against acts to legalize sex work services and protect them, but movements can make positive changes that can surprisingly soon feel like the new normal.

It won't destroy society, if anything people can be even safer.
The kneejerk reactions I can imagine is fear that underage people can be manipulated into it, one reason why the needed ID for sex workers would a positive thing. But perhaps need to rethink things, like what if a teen girl was convinced by a bunch of guys her own age to sleep around with them. Which I know is a very uncomfortable scenario to think up. You have adults who don't want young adults getting warped ideas of just sleeping around with anyone. Should you punish the girl? Punish the boys? Is it hypocritical if in this scenario sex work is legal, but teenagers and do illegal under the table things that could still exploit or "corrupt" them?

Some complex discussions for this idea of world where sex could be treated as completely normal. And in such a scenario all people would still have complete over what happens to their bodies. As it stands, purity culture, where even masturbation got seen as something real bad, was more prevalent in the past, and you had scumbag male bosses harassing their female staff. Sexual liberation of all genders and sexualities (bar those who cannot give consent) has gone a long way to empower, as long as consent and respect are bolded.


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Rainbow_Belle
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20 Dec 2019, 6:40 am

It has been argued that prostitution is a victimless crime. However many prostitutes are controlled, forced into prostitution and pimps and criminal gangs profit off prostitution. There may be some prostitutes by choice but there are women and children forced into prostitution and exploited.



Bradleigh
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20 Dec 2019, 7:30 am

Rainbow_Belle wrote:
It has been argued that prostitution is a victimless crime. However many prostitutes are controlled, forced into prostitution and pimps and criminal gangs profit off prostitution. There may be some prostitutes by choice but there are women and children forced into prostitution and exploited.


Which is why it should be legalised and regulated. Have it available in ways not reliable by questionable people taking advantage of the worker, and protect their rights in terms of support from the system, to a clear protection any level of harassment. As it stands, the stigma alone can be considered harassment.


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Tequila
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20 Dec 2019, 7:59 am

Bradleigh wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Some people (who shall remain nameless) think that prostitution should not be legalized, not because of ideology but because of personal beliefs and values based, in part, on observation.

Since prostitution is a CRIME in the US that’s considered worthy of jail time or a hefty fine, those same people (who I’ve already mentioned) do not believe in supporting or endorsing the aforementioned criminal activity in any capacity. They think we should call a spade a spade.

None of this really matters because prostitution is NOT going to be legalized in the US anytime soon. If individuals engaging in the crime want to stay in the US and avoid jail time, they might want to seriously reconsider their career goals.

That’s just how it is. We don’t have to like it but that’s not going to change anything. It’s not helpful to dwell on what we can’t change but to make informed choices based on how things are.


Well, gay sex in any form was not too long ago considered a crime, and would see similar punishments. People did, and still do, say that it was in concept immoral, so would be anyone who would want to scratch such itches. I certainly don't want to kick up an initiative against acts to legalize sex work services and protect them, but movements can make positive changes that can surprisingly soon feel like the new normal.

It won't destroy society, if anything people can be even safer.
The kneejerk reactions I can imagine is fear that underage people can be manipulated into it, one reason why the needed ID for sex workers would a positive thing. But perhaps need to rethink things, like what if a teen girl was convinced by a bunch of guys her own age to sleep around with them. Which I know is a very uncomfortable scenario to think up. You have adults who don't want young adults getting warped ideas of just sleeping around with anyone. Should you punish the girl? Punish the boys? Is it hypocritical if in this scenario sex work is legal, but teenagers and do illegal under the table things that could still exploit or "corrupt" them?

Some complex discussions for this idea of world where sex could be treated as completely normal. And in such a scenario all people would still have complete over what happens to their bodies. As it stands, purity culture, where even masturbation got seen as something real bad, was more prevalent in the past, and you had scumbag male bosses harassing their female staff. Sexual liberation of all genders and sexualities (bar those who cannot give consent) has gone a long way to empower, as long as consent and respect are bolded.


Are you sexually liberated?



Bradleigh
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20 Dec 2019, 8:43 am

Tequila wrote:
Are you sexually liberated?


That is a bit of a personal question.

But if you want an honest answer, probably not. I have some social anxiety that has always given me a fear of upsetting/inconveniencing other people, mixed with current circumstances that would make me too afraid to start looking and feeling rather undeserving. Along with a recent shifting of understanding my gender identity, and unsure of the limits of what I am attracted to.


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kraftiekortie
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20 Dec 2019, 8:49 am

Attraction is an instinctual thing; one shouldn't overemphasize the "intellectual" when it comes to attraction.

My opinion about the "sex industry." In an ideal world, it would work wonders for people who are sexually frustrated.

In the "real world," however, especially where it's illegal, the sex industry is fraught with dangers---especially for people with disabilities.

People with disabilities should not be sent out in the cold in search of an escort in the United States, for example. This person with disabilities, to me, must have an experienced "mentor" who knows what's good and knows what's bad.



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20 Dec 2019, 9:23 am

As the UK law stands (I think I'm right in saying), exchanging sex for money isn't illegal but importuning is. Wether its legal or not there will always be a black market for sex work so it makes sense to give as many workers posssible, protection under the umbrella of the law and decriminalize, with regulations put in place.



kraftiekortie
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20 Dec 2019, 9:28 am

That's correct. That's the law in the UK.

In Germany, the Netherlands, Greece, Austria, Hungary, and (rather surprisingly) Turkey, prostitution is legal and regulated.

In the Scandinavian countries, it's a similar situation to the UK.

In the US, except for parts of Nevada (not including Las Vegas), sex for hire is totally illegal.



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20 Dec 2019, 9:41 am

Sex workers should have the right to full police protection. And to be treated with dignity.

Anybody who seeks to play the role of "pimp" should be prosecuted severely.



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20 Dec 2019, 10:09 am

kraftiekortie wrote:
Attraction is an instinctual thing; one shouldn't overemphasize the "intellectual" when it comes to attraction.

My opinion about the "sex industry." In an ideal world, it would work wonders for people who are sexually frustrated.

In the "real world," however, especially where it's illegal, the sex industry is fraught with dangers---especially for people with disabilities.

People with disabilities should not be sent out in the cold in search of an escort in the United States, for example. This person with disabilities, to me, must have an experienced "mentor" who knows what's good and knows what's bad.


(To twilight princess too)

Do you think intellectually intact people with disabilities need a mentor?

At what level of intellectual disability would you say needs a mentor?

The problem is that some people with an IQ of 60, 65 or lower can be very smart socially and fully capable of navigating social and sexual situations.

ID is like autism. Everyone has different impairments and different strengths. It


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kraftiekortie
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20 Dec 2019, 10:52 am

I feel like anybody, even including people of great intelligence, who are naive about the "sex industry," would benefit greatly from having somebody "mentor" them, and guide them towards sex workers who are ethical and moral, and do not engage in such things as sex trafficking (i.e., importing sex workers from other lands), drugs, guns, and other illegal things.

I am naive about the "sex industry." If I would seek the services of a sex worker, I believe I would need a "mentor" who knows the "in and outs" of the sex industry, and who would guide me to a person who does not engage in illegal things (other than sex for hire).

I work in the courts. And I've known people who have been the victims of robbery at the hands of pimps and sex workers. And I've heard many stories, of course, of how people catch STD's from sex workers. Unlike places like Germany, the sex industry is not regulated. It's a very pell-mell sort of situation, fraught with risks.

When I speak of "mentors" in this context, I'm speaking merely about "mentors" who can guide a person towards a suitable sex-industry person. I'm not speaking about "mentoring" people about "how to have sex," so to speak.

Saying all this, I believe it would be nice if disabled people could experience the pleasures of sex. Right now, not many disabled people are able to experience this pleasure for many reasons. Sexual frustration could be at the heart of at least some untoward acts committed by disabled people. Remove the frustration, remove one aspect of the potential for a person to "act out."



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20 Dec 2019, 11:15 am

^
I couldn't agree more, kraftie, in places where such things are not strictly regulated, it could be incredibly dangerous for all parties involved. It's one of the reasons I think the idea of sex therapists and sex workers trained to accommodate disabled people might have potential.


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TwilightPrincess
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20 Dec 2019, 11:38 am

blazingstar wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
Attraction is an instinctual thing; one shouldn't overemphasize the "intellectual" when it comes to attraction.

My opinion about the "sex industry." In an ideal world, it would work wonders for people who are sexually frustrated.

In the "real world," however, especially where it's illegal, the sex industry is fraught with dangers---especially for people with disabilities.

People with disabilities should not be sent out in the cold in search of an escort in the United States, for example. This person with disabilities, to me, must have an experienced "mentor" who knows what's good and knows what's bad.


(To twilight princess too)

Do you think intellectually intact people with disabilities need a mentor?

At what level of intellectual disability would you say needs a mentor?

The problem is that some people with an IQ of 60, 65 or lower can be very smart socially and fully capable of navigating social and sexual situations.

ID is like autism. Everyone has different impairments and different strengths. It


This raises so many complex issues that I don’t think that it’s something that could be properly or appropriately addressed or regulated. It’s just too problematic, I think.

If there was some sort of sex-oriented program for disabled people, I think there would need to be some red tape involved, including, perhaps, some required mentoring based on individual needs. Governmental red tape is a pain in the butt, but it often serves an important purpose.

Truthfully, I just can’t imagine this happening in a legal sense at any point in the near future based on what I know of the US overall. We have lots of red states that would largely be opposed to this sort of thing and not all liberals, like me, would embrace it, either.


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20 Dec 2019, 12:21 pm

At this point in time, it’s probably better to consider places like Germany and Switzerland as places where sex workers could be more feasibly employed in the sexual satisfaction of disabled folks—as the sex industry there is legal and more thoroughly and thoughtfully regulated than in places like the United States.



Tequila
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20 Dec 2019, 1:02 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
At this point in time, it’s probably better to consider places like Germany and Switzerland as places where sex workers could be more feasibly employed in the sexual satisfaction of disabled folks—as the sex industry there is legal and more thoroughly and thoughtfully regulated than in places like the United States.


Are you taking the piss?



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20 Dec 2019, 1:19 pm

Tequila wrote:
kraftiekortie wrote:
At this point in time, it’s probably better to consider places like Germany and Switzerland as places where sex workers could be more feasibly employed in the sexual satisfaction of disabled folks—as the sex industry there is legal and more thoroughly and thoughtfully regulated than in places like the United States.


Are you taking the piss?


What does that mean?


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