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MushroomPrincess
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17 Dec 2019, 9:02 pm

Is anyone else here a supporter of Sex Worker Rights? I think it needs to be decriminalized, destigmatized, legalized, and normalized. Some of my best friends are sex workers and I think the marginalization we face is really sh***y.



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17 Dec 2019, 9:35 pm

I would say this - it would be a good idea *if* it would be used to cast that much sunlight on the profession that it could no longer be so tightly linked with human trafficking. To that end though I think it would either need to be fully legal with all kinds of checks and reviews to make sure the guys and girls involved aren't abductees or getting extorted for their money. The trouble is that could be impossible, death and deportation threats can make people incredibly compliant, the hope though would at least be to make the situation as difficult as possible for those who'd want to try throwing other human beings in servitude so they could bankroll the difference.


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17 Dec 2019, 10:17 pm

MushroomPrincess wrote:
Is anyone else here a supporter of Sex Worker Rights? I think it needs to be decriminalized, destigmatized, legalized, and normalized. Some of my best friends are sex workers and I think the marginalization we face is really sh***y.


While I would never utilize their services, I agree, so long as they’re routinely tested for STDs.


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Rainbow_Belle
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17 Dec 2019, 10:18 pm

Right wing conservatives will always oppose sex work. Corrupt right wing conservative politicians, lawyers, finance, businessmen that are the main customers of sex workers but want to keep it illegal to maintain the image of Christian Family Values. Criminals thrive by keeping sex work illegal because it creates a black market and more profits are made.



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17 Dec 2019, 10:32 pm

Rainbow_Belle wrote:
Right wing conservatives will always oppose sex work. Corrupt right wing conservative politicians, lawyers, finance, businessmen that are the main customers of sex workers but want to keep it illegal to maintain the image of Christian Family Values. Criminals thrive by keeping sex work illegal because it creates a black market and more profits are made.

And Kamala Harris.


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17 Dec 2019, 11:36 pm

Most certainly it would be the moral thing to do. It is time to stop slut shaming people, and make it public so that there is less criminal things like human trafficking and things like pimps forcing people into it.

Philosophy Tube did a video about this subject a little while ago, which was fantastic. Super recommend everyone to check it out.


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18 Dec 2019, 11:53 am

I think it would be a good idea to end slut-shaming, but it would also be a good idea to end sex work. I've got a lot of misgivings with the whole concept of people using other people for a need--whether that be sexual pleasure, companionship, what have you. Crusty old atheist Terry Pratchett, one of the finest comic novelists of recent years, wrote "Evil is what happens when we start treating people as things."

Impractical, but just my thoughts. I just don't like the idea of using people.


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Bradleigh
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18 Dec 2019, 12:59 pm

Borromeo wrote:
I just don't like the idea of using people.


You could say that about almost any field of work where people are used by people to do a job. Any attempt to end something would require that you eliminate supply and demand, which would be people with need to buy those services, and people with a need for money with a means get that through sex work.

On a basic level I have heard that you can have people like those with a disability that may have no real meaningful way to achieve a relationship, but still have a need. But also to be clear that sex work is not just prostitution, these can also be phone sex, webcam shows, 'dancing', and general porn.

I am no real expert, but rather than simply deciding what is best for people, I do think it can be important to see if maybe certain groups are somewhat forced and would rather be doing anything else if they had the choice, but also not assume things. If the view is that it is degrading and inherently a violent industry, well those things can change. Put in protections in, and lets change opinions, stop letting sex workers be treated like the butts of jokes. There are also some gender related issues in here too.


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18 Dec 2019, 7:22 pm

You can decriminalize it and work on the stigma, but I doubt that will help them not to be murdered. The only thing that will help with that are pimps and overseers, who will make a profit. Even legalizing it will result in someone overseeing, if you want safety. If you want to keep all the profits, you're gonna be at risk because you're alone.


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18 Dec 2019, 7:41 pm

Bradleigh wrote:
Borromeo wrote:
I just don't like the idea of using people.


You could say that about almost any field of work where people are used by people to do a job. Any attempt to end something would require that you eliminate supply and demand, which would be people with need to buy those services, and people with a need for money with a means get that through sex work.

On a basic level I have heard that you can have people like those with a disability that may have no real meaningful way to achieve a relationship, but still have a need. But also to be clear that sex work is not just prostitution, these can also be phone sex, webcam shows, 'dancing', and general porn.

I am no real expert, but rather than simply deciding what is best for people, I do think it can be important to see if maybe certain groups are somewhat forced and would rather be doing anything else if they had the choice, but also not assume things. If the view is that it is degrading and inherently a violent industry, well those things can change. Put in protections in, and lets change opinions, stop letting sex workers be treated like the butts of jokes. There are also some gender related issues in here too.


Sex isn’t just another “service” one can buy. Sexual assault victims would say that stealing such a “service” would cause much more emotional and psychological damage than if someone stole other services from them.

Sex is an emotional thing.

I’m not sure why anyone would want to have sex with someone who was only doing it for the money and didn’t really want to. It’s pretty icky when you stop and think about it.

Parents of daughters: would you want your daughters to pursue such a “career path?”



MushroomPrincess
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18 Dec 2019, 9:39 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Sex isn’t just another “service” one can buy.

Oh, but it is. The question is can you afford me? :p

Quote:
Sexual assault victims would say that stealing such a “service” would cause much more emotional and psychological damage than if someone stole other services from them.

Sexual Assault and Theft Of Service are fundamentally different crimes, this is a false equivalence.

Quote:
Sex is an emotional thing.

So is art, and so is music. Bizarrely, nobody every seems to have a problem with anyone selling those services.

Quote:
I’m not sure why anyone would want to have sex with someone who was only doing it for the money and didn’t really want to.

We aren't selling sex, we're selling an experience. It's a lot easier to rationalize sex work if you think of it as a performance art rather than as commodity labor.[/quote]

Quote:
Parents of daughters: would you want your daughters to pursue such a “career path?”

I'm not a parent, but I am someone's daughter, and ech, I think it's more respectable than military service. Having sex for money > Shooting at brown people for money



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18 Dec 2019, 10:14 pm

MushroomPrincess wrote:
Quote:
Sexual assault victims would say that stealing such a “service” would cause much more emotional and psychological damage than if someone stole other services from them.

Sexual Assault and Theft Of Service are fundamentally different crimes, this is a false equivalence.


And the important aspect of this topic would be to not cheapen assault against sex workers, where regardless of whether they are selling it, they get the last say in what is done with their body. Which includes giving the service in the first place.

I think that these in general can go a ways to prevent things like blaming victims, where women get held to weird expectations of dumb cases in asking for unwanted attention based on what they were wearing. It is gross that girls have to be warned that they can't wear that one thing they like that they find cute, because men can't control themselves. Not that there are also cases of where women can be also troubling, there was a rather interesting video I watched recently that brought up that bouncers can have it tough from drunk women, and ladies nights can have some women act even worse than their male counterparts.


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Twilightprincess
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18 Dec 2019, 10:35 pm

Bradleigh wrote:
MushroomPrincess wrote:
Quote:
Sexual assault victims would say that stealing such a “service” would cause much more emotional and psychological damage than if someone stole other services from them.

Sexual Assault and Theft Of Service are fundamentally different crimes, this is a false equivalence.


And the important aspect of this topic would be to not cheapen assault against sex workers, where regardless of whether they are selling it, they get the last say in what is done with their body. Which includes giving the service in the first place.

I think that these in general can go a ways to prevent things like blaming victims, where women get held to weird expectations of dumb cases in asking for unwanted attention based on what they were wearing. It is gross that girls have to be warned that they can't wear that one thing they like that they find cute, because men can't control themselves. Not that there are also cases of where women can be also troubling, there was a rather interesting video I watched recently that brought up that bouncers can have it tough from drunk women, and ladies nights can have some women act even worse than their male counterparts.


“They get the last say in what is done with their body,” huh?

Ick!

Sex is best enjoyed “with” somebody as opposed to it being something that’s “done” to her (or him).

Sex is not just another “service.”



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18 Dec 2019, 10:45 pm

MushroomPrincess wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
Sex isn’t just another “service” one can buy.

Oh, but it is. The question is can you afford me? :p

Quote:
Sexual assault victims would say that stealing such a “service” would cause much more emotional and psychological damage than if someone stole other services from them.

Sexual Assault and Theft Of Service are fundamentally different crimes, this is a false equivalence.

Quote:
Sex is an emotional thing.

So is art, and so is music. Bizarrely, nobody every seems to have a problem with anyone selling those services.

Quote:
I’m not sure why anyone would want to have sex with someone who was only doing it for the money and didn’t really want to.

We aren't selling sex, we're selling an experience. It's a lot easier to rationalize sex work if you think of it as a performance art rather than as commodity labor.


Quote:
Parents of daughters: would you want your daughters to pursue such a “career path?”

Quote:
I’m not a parent, but I am someone's daughter, and ech, I think it's more respectable than military service. Having sex for money > Shooting at brown people for money


If a manicurist is forced to give someone a manicure under the threat of forcible compulsion, that person is still probably not going to be as affected as someone who is sexually assaulted through similar means.

Sex is not just another service.

Sex does have an emotionally complex layer to it. It’s best to avoid prostitutes, engage in self love, and find a relationship in time.

Sex is more enjoyable for most people when it’s with someone they care about.



MushroomPrincess
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18 Dec 2019, 10:59 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Sex does have an emotionally complex layer to it. It’s best to avoid pr********s, engage in self love, and find a relationship in time.


"Prostitute" is a slur.



MushroomPrincess
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19 Dec 2019, 12:35 am

Prostitute is a slur, you wanna know why it's a slur? It's dehumanizing and stigmatizing. It's a lot easier for cops and pimps to abuse us when you think of us as lowly "prostitute"s, ironically even though you claim to be against sex trafficking you are benefiting the traffickers by using this kind of language. To liberate the sex worker you must first be willing to concede that it is a legitimate form of work.