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Fnord
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02 Jan 2020, 1:52 pm

envirozentinel wrote:
Do the JW's have any position on it?
Here is a link to the official website of the Jehovah's Witnesses: https://www.jw.org/en/
envirozentinel wrote:
Are they just as against it as the majority of evangelical churches?
Here is a link to their official answer page: https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/q ... ible-view/
envirozentinel wrote:
Some of the charismatic churches must be OK with it as I see a guy who used to live near us is now in a loving relationship with another guy and also a regular churchgoer who often puts Christian quotes on his FB page.
Some Christian churches have stated similar positions to: "All are welcome to come and worship with us as part of our congregation. However, we will not knowingly elect or invite a gay pastor to preach in our church, nor will we knowingly elect a gay elder, deacon, or teacher to serve in our church, nor will we host a same-sex wedding in our church."
envirozentinel wrote:
As this is in our largest city, Johannesburg, maybe they are more progressive there than in some other places.
I know this is off-topic, but what ever happened to the "Science Must Fall" movement that originated there a few years ago? PM me on this, if you prefer.


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02 Jan 2020, 2:14 pm

^^ Will supply an answer on that tomorrow morning. Thanks for the links!


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02 Jan 2020, 4:10 pm

JWs are 100% against it. They talk about it often. If they would just spend half of that time looking at the rafter in their own eyes by focusing on their issues with child abuse, but alas...

I knew a JW man who is gay. He tried to be straight by marrying a nice, elder’s daughter.

That didn’t work out too well...

They are divorced, and he’s disfellowshipped. I’m hoping that he’s found some peace with who he is and is happily married...but to a man.

The wife was disfellowshipped, too. She got reinstated but no longer believes or practices. I’m going to try to get in contact with her one of these days...



Persephone29
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03 Jan 2020, 10:14 am

I believe so.

I think God loves the sinner, but hates the sin. We all sin, it's up to us to repent and try and do better. If we choose not to repent, then I don't know. No one I know has ever defied death to come back and report... And I'm not talking about near death experiences, I'm talking about Lazarus stuff where 'he stinketh,' but spent some time roaming around and can give an accurate account of what the spirit does when there's no body to inhabit.

As far as being Gay, I don't believe that's the sin. Just like being straight isn't the sin... It's what the person does with it. A person who is straight has no more liberty to go about fornicating than a gay person. A person who is gay has no more liberty to go about fornicating than a straight person. The Bible says it's better not to marry (as our primary purpose is to lead souls to Christ), but it's better to marry then to burn. We have but one outlet; marriage for the purposes of procreation. If that is not appealing, then live a life of chastity.

If none of this is appealing, why even bother to ask at all? Do what works for you and ignore it. People torture themselves with these subjects and then fight tooth and nail with respondents. That's a waste of time, in my opinion.

This is all based on the Christian faith. I have no real knowledge or experience on this subject spiritually, outside the Christian faith.


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03 Jan 2020, 11:15 am

^^

So we should only marry and have sex for procreation?

Are you anti-birth control?



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03 Jan 2020, 11:51 am

It's my understanding that when people put two ^^ it means they are referring to the post two spots before theirs.

Three ^^^ means you are talking to the person three posts previous.

Etc.

In this instance with two ^^, it means you are asking yourself whether you are anti-birth control.

I'm not trying to be picky, but it's hard to know whom people are replying to when there's more than one ^.



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03 Jan 2020, 12:04 pm

Yep. I recently learned that myself.



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03 Jan 2020, 1:09 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
^^

So we should only marry and have sex for procreation?

Are you anti-birth control?


The OP asked the 'God question,' as it related to sin. I answered in the biblical sense.

I am not anti-birth control. I am pro-birth control. I am also someone who should never have married, because I don't want sex or kids. Hindsight is 20/20... I have both and make the best of it.


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04 Jan 2020, 12:40 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHAGbD3dlhE

Someone Else in 'this Thread' already answered the Question of the Faith of the Op Author who asks
"Does God Love Us Even If we Commit Sins?" The Simple Answer is; if you haven't read the New
Testament or Heard about it in Mass; as this is the Main Church, the Catholic one i have been
Studying as a Participant Anthropology Observer for the Last 74 Months of not missing a Weekend Mass;
Nope; Don't take my Word for it; and honestly i'm really surprised no one has provided the answer yet.

'Catholic Dot Com' Answers the Question Does God Love Us Even If We Commit Sins this way:

"Question:
According to Matthew 12:31-32, anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven.

Answer:
Forgiveness of sins requires repentance (contrition). The Catechism of the Catholic Church states, “Among the penitent’s acts, contrition occupies first place. Contrition is sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again” (CCC 1451).

Unwillingness to repent and accept God’s forgiveness is what Jesus was talking about when he referred to “blasphemy of the Spirit” (Matt. 12:31-32). The Catechism explains, “By rejecting grace in this life, one already judges oneself, receives according to one’s works, and can even condemn oneself for all eternity by rejecting the Spirit of love” (CCC 679)."

But Still That's Just An Interpretation of Basically a Line of Poetry Written by A 'Ghost Writer' who was Likely
Literate Greek Writing Roman who selected His version From Oral Tradition possibly or his own
Words Altogether; and was eventually Assigned a Pen Name of 'According to Matthew'; Where
Associated Words of what is Written of this Verse Numbered in the 1300's; Now in Multiple
Translations in Actual Solid Machine Copy Print was Copied by Scribes until approximately
1454 AD or so; Where Printing Presses finally Printed it in Machine Copy Solid Print. Before
that the Writing was copied by innumerable scribes across all those Centuries resulting in potential
innumerable mistakes along with intentional changes as let's get real those innumerable scribes were no
'only god' Copying previous Writing By Pen and Hand on whatever Medium would hold the ink that was available then;
So, now Folks Worship Words Written By Innumerable Potential Hands of other Human Beings from that bit of patch of
dirt in a select part of this Tiny Planet we live on, still now; that does appear to be the only one in view supporting Life
like us.

Story is King (Queen); Whatever Version Folks get Will be Rarified as Abstract Constructs And 'Idol Worshipped' as 'Gospel
Truth' in unlimited versions of whatever Story is King (Queen) gets to one now. So Really, the question is can one
trust all those folks from that small area in the World to tell you the truth; really, the truth is, whatever story you
believe in is 'Your Bible AND GOD of life' in whatever meaning and purpose you come to feel is holy and sacred
enough to carry you through life without so much fear to at least survive with a few smiles and not so much
Existential Angst as Neuroscience shows we all basically create our realities; each of us; by hallucinating
our unique reality based on the Past hallucinations of reality we create best we can and will as Art of the
'Chaos Magic' we in feelings, thoughts, and deeds create next. That's a bit esoteric but this will get way
too long here without some individual research and Google for those who have more than the Science
assessed average Human Attention Span of less than a Gold Fish Now; Lately, as far as i've been able to Surmise;
Few do exceed the Bell Curve of the Modern Human Attention Span Currently at Hand; i think that's sad in my opinion.

But if you Literally Believe in the New Testament of the Bible; Just don't sin against the Holy Spirit and You will
Surely get to Heaven Within now at least if Heaven is really at Hand and always in this Generation now Within.

In this Case:

The Question Really is; is what is 'the Holy Spirit'; it's fabulous really cross-culturally when anyone comes naturally
in Flow and the Art whatever form it comes; We as a species create expansively from a greater human potential
than just analytically reasoning; yes, the existing reality of past to make future so-called rational decisions for
basic survival and even a thrive of Joy in Life too; a Holy Spirit Flow technically named Transient Hypo-Frontality
By Science is when we ascend and transcend out of Locked more exclusively in our Neo-Cortex and light
up the Sub-Conscious part of our Mind where Science Assesses increases in Creativity 400 to 500
Percent as Flow is basically the result of effective Meditation in whatever form still or moving that
comes. Religion doesn't own this Essence and Common but somewhat Rare Potential of Life
anymore than Owning something as large as 'all that is' by enclosing it in a 3 Letter Word
And Demanding no one name it by any other name even though technically that goes
against the Old Testament Big 10 Commandments as that is changing the 'i am' with
no Name into an Idol; a rarified abstract construct of 3 letters; such a small imprisoned God in deed;
in other words, Taking 'i am' as any name at all becomes most Definitely Vain as folks believe they will
Tribally own the Essence of 'i am' by trapping the whole reality in Just a Frigging Idol of a Word. Whoever Understood
that had a lot of common sense about just how big and ineffable to describe fully 'all that is' still now 'i am' is just about
as good as our 'is' gets; of course uniquely Observed by each Human eye as innumerable eyes of 'all that is' through
'Multi-Uni-Verse Views' Now; We are all 'Multi-Uni-Verses' attempting to relate our Unique Views now as we speak
to others in a Mutual and Consensual Way of Understanding each other; my View is rather Large; doesn't leave
me much room for other folks to fully understand the size of my Venn Diagram of still Evolving Larger Soul.

'John 14:12' relates this reality well, too; true, there are Diamonds in the Rough; Wheat from the Chaff; even
in a Mix-Mash Potato Word Salad of tired Old Cliche's now from Innumerable Unnamed Authors And Copy
Mistaking Changing Scribes in Centuries of Effort then; Sort of Like Every Super Hero Movie that tells
the same old Human Story of the Hero Archetype of Humanity; different characters same DAMN old human story for real;
except live by the sword die by the sword; Bomb/kill Other Country's Leaders first and see what blows up next; live by
the sword die by the sword; who dies next; Truly Still the Same Old Bad ending of the Hero Story; "Highway to Hell" still now; just never ending dying by swords.

Note: (Side Note) this is one of my special interests; i tend to have some level of expertise on
it; and when i have a special interest, it is much more in-depth than 'Trump-Twitter-Intelligence';
If you can't hang with me; i understand; but if you will; Please don't get upset that i am just exercising my Asperger's
Super Power of Laser Focus that in reality is a form of Creative Holy Spirit in Flow; so, really if i don't exercise that full potential; perhaps i should not be forgiven (forgive myself) for not fulfilling my Potential of life in deed respecting this
gift of Life with due thanks and praise by worshipping my existence overall this way; and by metaphor at least suffer
a kind of existential angst within on Earth that other wise could end up more like 'the Highway to Hell' to Quote AC/DC
by metaphor at least; again.

i kid you not; when my Special Interest was the 'Autism Speaks Conspiracy Theories' on 'this Planet' people
who believed in those conspiracies accused me of actually being employed for money and working for the
Organization to sway the opinions of people all across the land of online; haha, i was permanently disabled shut-in
at home; Mostly in my Underwear; barely able to tolerate the pain in my face looking at a screen two inches away
dimly lit as possible to tolerate the pain with eyesight that only Hurt worse by even shaded prescription lens then.
Anyway; don't know about Y'alls Autism but my Form is surely a Super Power as literally people have named me
'Superman' both at School And Work when i am totally in 'Creative Holy Spirit Laser Focus Flow'; and basically let
it all go in all of my Human Potential; no one cared how i did it then; the effective results then were all that counted
for both Grades and the Work Mission at Heaven or Hell's Hands. That's some Good News at Least about 'the condition'
of my Condition.

Other than that; realizing the Somewhat Tenuous Integrity of what is Totally Written of that Old Antiquated Bible;
The inconsistencies in the Old Bible That Smell More like Tribalism and Trump Lies to me; i write my own Bible;
my own Parables; and they look something like this; Just an example; i live Autotelic in Flow Generating my Own
Happy Neurohormones and Neurochemicals Within through Many Years Now of Constant Writing and Dancing
Meditation where Dance And Song and the Smiles of others innumerable Generated by 12,537 Miles of Public
Dance is the Effective Result; Generally Speaking, i use Writing as a Tool of Focus to Continue to find 'the Voice
Within 'i am' From 'The Holy And Creative Spirit' to evolve my Soul; 7.6 Million Words now of Personal Longest Epic
Long Form Bible Poem along with all that Public Dance in 76 Months; in the History and Herstory of Humankind
yet; and Yes still SPiRiT GRoWinG; a small snippet below too; just for the record and evidence; Most Anyone can
and will 'write a Bible'; Truly in my opinion, most anyone who doesn't strive to write one in Life commits a Sin
Against the Potential of GRoWinG their Holy Spirit; both by Reason of Art and Science too. And Honestly
if one does not seek and find a Flow of Heaven within; it's no one's fault but a will that has not yet sought
and found the Holy Spirit Within; i intuit most people have the Potential, at least; it's that they never find
a way to do it; that's really sad in my opinion as this experience of "i AM" is Real and even documented
by Science and me too; in case study way at least; and with so, so many other Artists too for Real through Existence;
(Literal Dancing And Singing (Writing Free Verse Poetry) Autotelic Meditation in Flow is Just Three ways to do it) Just
one Trinity as such as Metaphor too.

Second Part provided in Next Comment as Cloud Flare seems a bit tenuous as such too about my communication too..;)


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04 Jan 2020, 12:40 pm

Second Part of Comment:

Stars are born to output, give, and share light; at least for as long as they live now and as dim as i once
was; almost black of light; the saving grace then was to water a plant to make it grow making my life still
a star no matter how dark the candle i felt in black hole soul then; and oh, (the) saviors of a world and
a story i love to tale a little different as parables just do; when free and not imprisoned by books, pages,
paragraphs, lines, or words of print from yesterday; bound by past authority that no longer should
exist for true freedom; so, anyway, sorry if you've already heard it but it will be different anyway as
free will be when unleashed and released as being human expressing starlight (holy spirit) eyes within;

A dusty road; a little boy with no words; disabled from birth without the ability to speak;
but a lover of growth; in shape of living trees; a sapling brought home by Loving Mother
then placed upon a kitchen counter by a lamp that shines anew; a boy sees green then and
wants to see more; so he nurtures the tree without the ability to speak; he waters the tree Feeding it
With fertilizing love; sunshine hope in eyes of loving kindness; fertile ground outside; dig a hole to comfort roots;
spend time and effort with caring love and the tree rises broad and strong; and soon provides shade For a front porch home; sidewalks come; but the tree still branches out; flowers come more beautiful than before; students from the
local school who study trees are amazed by the beauty of this tree; photos are taken; shared; and the boy’s eyes then
shine to see what his love inspires; tree no longer needs the boy to grow strong now; and the little boy becomes ill and
his life goes dark; years late a shy younger man is walking this sidewalk of a boy's home; and a most radiating beautiful
loving dark haired girl approaches him; with smiling face eyes; the man's eyes light up but what to say; the center piece
of conversation is standing tall And flowering more beautiful it seems than ever before on this Summer Fall
Winter Spring day; a spark of instant soul mate love is in the air; and that begins a love that will Last ’till
death beyond; so, the shy man becomes confident with the love of his wife; joins the military; and even
rises to the ranks of politics then; love grows taller and fearless and lives in grace of balance; the shy man
now is stronger man with intense will and makes a decision as a Leader of the World that Prevents World
War III; life on the Planet now is saved then; so, who is the savior?... the man; the loving wife; the mother
providing love; friends and other family too; Schools
providing Education; The Tree;
or the little disabled boy
And all the
Couple’s
Friends
From Around A
World; Well, The Truth
is ALL They Are; as THere
is no i, me; but Us and We
iN
Savior
Of Life...
L O V i N G
Moral Of The
Story; Water A Tree
Of Life And See WHere
iT
GRoWS
Next Now
iN OceaN
i AM Eyes Free..:)

https://www.catholic.com/qa/what-about- ... will-never


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04 Jan 2020, 12:43 pm

Persephone29 wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
^^

So we should only marry and have sex for procreation?

Are you anti-birth control?


The OP asked the 'God question,' as it related to sin. I answered in the biblical sense.

I am not anti-birth control. I am pro-birth control. I am also someone who should never have married, because I don't want sex or kids. Hindsight is 20/20... I have both and make the best of it.


Being married doesn’t necessitate sex, especially if you don’t want it...



Twilightprincess
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04 Jan 2020, 12:51 pm

@aghogday

Your spiritual views strike me as being Emersonian in a transcendental sense.

Spiritually, I found the “Bibles” written by Thoreau and Whitman wonderfully liberating to say the least.



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04 Jan 2020, 1:29 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
@aghogday

Your spiritual views strike me as being Emersonian in a transcendental sense.

Spiritually, I found the “Bibles” written by Thoreau and Whitman wonderfully liberating to say the least.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdRUQWVGENo

Thanks my Friend 'Twilightprincess'; Emersonian' is surely a nice compliment; Haven't had the
Opportunity to read him much yet; i read some lines of "Leaves of Grass" by Whitman when Young
and Liked it; not much for Poetic Words then. i See A Rather Real 'God' As Nature of All That Is. Perhaps i have the Advantage of Being Lost From Words until age 4. i Still Remember Before Speaking Words at 3 Looking Across the River Front into the Forest Across the River From the "Shot-Gun Home" i was raised in then. My Intuition was clear And
Still Eternal then; i am Nature i always exist now; truly ascendent and transcendent the Feeling Sense then and
So Long After
School and
Work and
Shut-in
Hell on Earth
Within Existence
Before it Came Home
Again to truly come Awake again...
It's not complicated at all when we feel and sense the Nature of all that is for real...
If that isn't God i don't really need to know for i feel and sense it 100 Percent Real Just Pure Light as Love All Free...
Elton John Captures the Essence of this Experience Well i Feel and Sense in the Song Linked Above; Not Many Artists
Do but when they Do they Do when it comes to the experience of Truly Coming Home Again and Just Living Eternally
Now... one Breath of this
place of Real Heaven
Within Now
is worth
what really
seems in Essence
And Perspective Now
more than a Real Highway Forever
to Hell Never Ending Now too Where
there is only 'Time' of the 'other place'
in Prison That all The Clothes of CulTure
May Create as an Illusion of Us in how we
come to sense and feel reality now just an
Illusion clothed past the Freedom of Loving Nature We are Now 'i am'


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04 Jan 2020, 1:49 pm

^It must take some time for you to compile these posts. Have you considered using the material in a book of your own? Some of your experiences have been awful but the recovery amazing, and you have plenty of energy for your "age" - which is merely a number and not important.


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04 Jan 2020, 8:43 pm

Wouldn't it be irrelevant if we're technically just it sectioning itself off or being sectioned off by various natural processes?


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