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Fnord
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12 Jan 2020, 11:54 am

Personally, I would rather see a Steyer/Bloomberg 'ticket' instead of one featuring Biden, Sanders or Trump.


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Kraichgauer
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12 Jan 2020, 1:40 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
In the US, "the left" has an odd philosophy.

They think government is better at postal work, medical care, education, managing jails …

However, not at car making, house making, restaurants …

This is confusing logic.

Why is government good at some industries, and not good at other industries?


There's nothing wrong with free enterprise, save for when the public good is at the heart of the matter where the market could and has caused harm. For instance, the postal service under government control has kept costs down enough that everyone can make use of it, whereas privately owned mail businesses like UPS or FED EX are too costly for many citizens, and have bad track records in results compared to the US postal service. Private prisons have proven to be terribly abusive in that judges have been corrupted into sentencing offenders to long terms in said private prisons where profit is the motive. As for medical care - - every other industrialized country can provide superior care compared to the privatized care offered here in America.


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12 Jan 2020, 3:07 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
In the US, "the left" has an odd philosophy.

They think government is better at postal work, medical care, education, managing jails …

However, not at car making, house making, restaurants …

This is confusing logic.

Why is government good at some industries, and not good at other industries?


Why do you feel the need to express yourself through a sock-puppet account rather than your main account?

Hint: moderators can see your IP address.


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FletcherArrow
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12 Jan 2020, 3:40 pm

firemonkey wrote:
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The uneven geography of economic development and a “winner-take-all” system make our electoral system stacked against left-wing parties. But that doesn’t mean leftists living under that system can’t still win.



https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/01/elec ... all-system

Mainly about the USA , but a fair amount of comment about the UK also .



The left loses elections become hate and being mean is more attractive to mobs and the masses.



Magna
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12 Jan 2020, 3:54 pm

TheRobotLives wrote:
In the US, "the left" has an odd philosophy.

They think government is better at postal work, medical care, education, managing jails …

However, not at car making, house making, restaurants …

This is confusing logic.

Why is government good at some industries, and not good at other industries?


If "the left" thinks that government does a good job at postal work, medical care, education, they're wrong.

The postal service hemorrhages money. I read just today that a leader of a postal union said something like (paraphrasing): "The USPS isn't a private company. It's not supposed to make money. The public doesn't understand this." The error in his statement? It's not supposed to hemorrhage money either. It should come as close as possible to breaking even.

Medical care? The fraud and abuse in Medicare is epic and has been for years. The Affordable Care Act has been very bad for anyone who isn't on medical assistance. Premiums have skyrocketed, health insurance companies have stopped offering insurance in entire states. Choices have decreased. "Keep your plan, keep your doctor." False in both cases for many Americans.

Public education? Compare US test scores to other countries in the world today vs. say, 30-40 years ago which was prior to the government being as involved in education. Are test scores better for the U.S. or worse?

I'll throw in another thing regarding government bureaucracy in general; the inefficiency is pathetic. In relation to work that I did at a job I had some years back, the company I worked for had a tax related question. We contacted the IRS to ask the question to ensure we were in compliance. Literally two years later, an IRS rep contacted us to say they would look into our question, but if they did, the ramifications would be negative for the business so they were giving us the opportunity to withdraw our question and allow them to close the file. Pathetic.



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12 Jan 2020, 3:57 pm

FletcherArrow wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
Quote:
The uneven geography of economic development and a “winner-take-all” system make our electoral system stacked against left-wing parties. But that doesn’t mean leftists living under that system can’t still win.



https://www.jacobinmag.com/2020/01/elec ... all-system

Mainly about the USA , but a fair amount of comment about the UK also .



The left loses elections become hate and being mean is more attractive to mobs and the masses.


Have you ever seen a Trump rally? Meanness and hate is the focal point.


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12 Jan 2020, 4:01 pm

Magna wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
In the US, "the left" has an odd philosophy.

They think government is better at postal work, medical care, education, managing jails …

However, not at car making, house making, restaurants …

This is confusing logic.

Why is government good at some industries, and not good at other industries?


If "the left" thinks that government does a good job at postal work, medical care, education, they're wrong.

The postal service hemorrhages money. I read just today that a leader of a postal union said something like (paraphrasing): "The USPS isn't a private company. It's not supposed to make money. The public doesn't understand this." The error in his statement? It's not supposed to hemorrhage money either. It should come as close as possible to breaking even.

Medical care? The fraud and abuse in Medicare is epic and has been for years. The Affordable Care Act has been very bad for anyone who isn't on medical assistance. Premiums have skyrocketed, health insurance companies have stopped offering insurance in entire states. Choices have decreased. "Keep your plan, keep your doctor." False in both cases for many Americans.

Public education? Compare US test scores to other countries in the world today vs. say, 30-40 years ago which was prior to the government being as involved in education. Are test scores better for the U.S. or worse?

I'll throw in another thing regarding government bureaucracy in general; the inefficiency is pathetic. In relation to work that I did at a job I had some years back, the company I worked for had a tax related question. We contacted the IRS to ask the question to ensure we were in compliance. Literally two years later, an IRS rep contacted us to say they would look into our question, but if they did, the ramifications would be negative for the business so they were giving us the opportunity to withdraw our question and allow them to close the file. Pathetic.


When I was working for a metal shop years back, the lady who ran the shipping department said the USPS was far more reliable and efficient than any of its privately owned competitors.
Most people couldn't begin paying for private schools, and home schooling has fallen into the hands of kooks and loons.
Other industrialized countries have no trouble with universal government ran healthcare.


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12 Jan 2020, 5:08 pm

Magna wrote:
Public education? Compare US test scores to other countries in the world today vs. say, 30-40 years ago which was prior to the government being as involved in education. Are test scores better for the U.S. or worse?

A lot of countries with public education have better scores that the US.


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FletcherArrow
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12 Jan 2020, 5:39 pm

Magna wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
In the US, "the left" has an odd philosophy.

They think government is better at postal work, medical care, education, managing jails …

However, not at car making, house making, restaurants …

This is confusing logic.

Why is government good at some industries, and not good at other industries?


If "the left" thinks that government does a good job at postal work, medical care, education, they're wrong.

The postal service hemorrhages money. I read just today that a leader of a postal union said something like (paraphrasing): "The USPS isn't a private company. It's not supposed to make money. The public doesn't understand this." The error in his statement? It's not supposed to hemorrhage money either. It should come as close as possible to breaking even.

Medical care? The fraud and abuse in Medicare is epic and has been for years. The Affordable Care Act has been very bad for anyone who isn't on medical assistance. Premiums have skyrocketed, health insurance companies have stopped offering insurance in entire states. Choices have decreased. "Keep your plan, keep your doctor." False in both cases for many Americans.

Public education? Compare US test scores to other countries in the world today vs. say, 30-40 years ago which was prior to the government being as involved in education. Are test scores better for the U.S. or worse?

I'll throw in another thing regarding government bureaucracy in general; the inefficiency is pathetic. In relation to work that I did at a job I had some years back, the company I worked for had a tax related question. We contacted the IRS to ask the question to ensure we were in compliance. Literally two years later, an IRS rep contacted us to say they would look into our question, but if they did, the ramifications would be negative for the business so they were giving us the opportunity to withdraw our question and allow them to close the file. Pathetic.


Well, private industry has made a mess of hospitals, privately owned prisons and charter schools.

The idea that for profit corporations can fairly and justly run prisons, hospitals or schools is idiocy.



Magna
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12 Jan 2020, 7:50 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Magna wrote:
TheRobotLives wrote:
In the US, "the left" has an odd philosophy.

They think government is better at postal work, medical care, education, managing jails …

However, not at car making, house making, restaurants …

This is confusing logic.

Why is government good at some industries, and not good at other industries?


If "the left" thinks that government does a good job at postal work, medical care, education, they're wrong.

The postal service hemorrhages money. I read just today that a leader of a postal union said something like (paraphrasing): "The USPS isn't a private company. It's not supposed to make money. The public doesn't understand this." The error in his statement? It's not supposed to hemorrhage money either. It should come as close as possible to breaking even.

Medical care? The fraud and abuse in Medicare is epic and has been for years. The Affordable Care Act has been very bad for anyone who isn't on medical assistance. Premiums have skyrocketed, health insurance companies have stopped offering insurance in entire states. Choices have decreased. "Keep your plan, keep your doctor." False in both cases for many Americans.

Public education? Compare US test scores to other countries in the world today vs. say, 30-40 years ago which was prior to the government being as involved in education. Are test scores better for the U.S. or worse?

I'll throw in another thing regarding government bureaucracy in general; the inefficiency is pathetic. In relation to work that I did at a job I had some years back, the company I worked for had a tax related question. We contacted the IRS to ask the question to ensure we were in compliance. Literally two years later, an IRS rep contacted us to say they would look into our question, but if they did, the ramifications would be negative for the business so they were giving us the opportunity to withdraw our question and allow them to close the file. Pathetic.


When I was working for a metal shop years back, the lady who ran the shipping department said the USPS was far more reliable and efficient than any of its privately owned competitors.
Most people couldn't begin paying for private schools, and home schooling has fallen into the hands of kooks and loons.
Other industrialized countries have no trouble with universal government ran healthcare.


I agree that you used to be able to "set your watch" by the reliability of the USPS years ago. It's changed. It's reliability has gone down. I know this because I'm involved in a business that requires the use of it more than any other means of hard copy document delivery. The amount of time that a letter takes to get from A to B today fluctuates. In the past it used to be the same time always.

I live near a small city of close to 100,000 population. Up until approximately five years ago, the main post office there postmarked the mail. Mail that was mailed and delivered within the same town never left. Why would it need to? Now, that main post office still exists, but ALL mail mailed in that town is transported 300 miles round trip to a metropolitan post office to be postmarked. Inefficient and wasteful. A letter mailed to a recipient who lives across town travels 300 miles now before it gets there.

Regarding government run healthcare, here's what I hear:

Many people wax on at how amazingly wonderful government healthcare like the NHS in the UK is. Why do people complain about long waits for services, ridiculously long waits? Why does it take 18 months or longer for someone to get an autism assessment, for example? That's crap. That's not great. That's not exemplary. That's deficient.



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12 Jan 2020, 8:14 pm

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Here, author Jennifer Still, an American living in the UK, lays out five reasons why she believes the NHS is "superior" to the healthcare system in the US.



https://www.businessinsider.com/ways-br ... services-5



Magna
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12 Jan 2020, 8:27 pm

I don't know anything about The Guardian. I don't think it's an online satire pseudo news site like The Onion is where they purposely fabricate fake stories to appear to be factual:

NHS rationing putting hernia patients' lives at risk, say surgeons

I had a hernia surgery earlier this year. The surgery took place less than four weeks after my consult with the surgeon which took less than two weeks after meeting with my General Practitioner who recommended I have the surgery. The cost of the surgery was part of my health insurance deductible so I paid a fraction of the overall cost of the surgery.

Healthcare rationing isn't a good thing.



auntblabby
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12 Jan 2020, 9:43 pm

Magna wrote:
Healthcare rationing isn't a good thing.

??! ! what makes you incapable of seeing what is so obvious to the working class here, that there has long been rationing based on one's wallet? medical care in amuuuurica is systematically priced outside the financial reach of anybody not indigent who is below the middle class.



Magna
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12 Jan 2020, 9:50 pm

Blabby, I got my first job at age 16 and nearly 34 years later I'm still working. I'm part of the working class and I've never had a situation where I was denied healthcare nor have I had a situation where when I needed it, like surgery or emergency care, I was bankrupted for paying for it.



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12 Jan 2020, 10:08 pm

lucky you. your cadillac health insurance sounds much richer than this working class person ever had. i HAVE been denied health care due to no money. one hospital ER told me to go away [deafness in one ear], and the other, after their wallet biopsy, basically just ignored me for 24 hours of interminable waiting, then without treating me, told me to go away. you'd think they never heard of EMTALA. another time, for a broken arm, they tried to bankrupt me [$53k in spurious medical charges such as $10 per cotton ball], and if it weren't for some pro-bono legal advice, would have bankrupted me. btw if one ever cleared $43k/annum, that is NOT working class [per US chamber of commerce]. that is MIDDLE CLASS. not very many working class mcjobs that have bennies such as health insurance.



HDLMatchette
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12 Jan 2020, 10:12 pm

They lose elections because although they're very well-intended, they do not put their feelings into check. It's not better than not having any good intents at all, and people can see that. I don't mean to say that any leftists on here don't have any feelings for those that are badly off, I'm just saying that when people do feel sympathetic for said people, they have to do so in a correct way or else it just makes things worse for the badly off.