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Out of the remaining candidates, which would you prefer to win the Democratic nomination?
Joe Biden 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
Bernie Sanders 31%  31%  [ 13 ]
Elizabeth Warren 10%  10%  [ 4 ]
Pete Buttigieg 17%  17%  [ 7 ]
Michael Bloomberg 10%  10%  [ 4 ]
Andrew Yang 7%  7%  [ 3 ]
Amy Klobuchar 5%  5%  [ 2 ]
Tom Steyer 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Tulsi Gabbard 14%  14%  [ 6 ]
Michael Bennet 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Deval Patrick 5%  5%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 42

Karamazov
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08 Feb 2020, 5:27 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
Who would do the best job at thoroughly secularizing the South and the Heartland?


That’s the work of generations I’m afraid: can only happen securely by voluntary shifts one human at a time... one issue at a time.
But tipping points can and do occur.



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08 Feb 2020, 5:55 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
Michael Bennet is probably the candidate who is closest to me. Like me, he has no chance of becoming President this year.

The other candidates I was enthusiastic about were Kamala Harris, Cory Booker, and Kirsten Gillibrand. All have dropped out and were sensible to do so.

There is a large group I consider broadly acceptable. Patrick, Steyer, Klobuchar, and Bloomberg are the survivors of this group. However, while they are more electable than Bennet, it looks like none of them have the ability to win the nomination any more.

Andrew Yang deserves a special mention. On policies he’d probably be my second choice after Bennet, but I don’t think he has the essential personal qualities that a President needs, including his complete lack of political experience and his suspect views on race. I’m also concerned that his generalised support for “autism treatments” will probably translate to ABA. He often uses his autistic child as a prop, which firstly I wish he wouldn’t do (his child has a right to privacy) and secondly is disappointing because his autism policies fall well short of Hillary Clinton. Don’t say “I have an autistic kid”, set out your vision!

There are two candidates I would be happy to see in the White House who still have a realistic chance. They are Joe Biden and Pete Buttigieg. I think Buttigieg has two big weaknesses: his lack of experience, and his alienation of the black population of South Bend which seems to have impacted his wider appeal to black voters. I get the impression he wouldn’t have run if Ted Cruz was President.

Joe Biden, well, it all goes without saying. He’d be an excellent president and he has a broad coalition of support. My concerns are his age, and his tendency to make mistakes when speaking from the cuff.

Then there are two candidates who I would still prefer to Trump but it would mean I spent months holding my nose and biting my tongue.

Bernie Sanders is far too left-wing for my tastes. He has also made several populist attacks on freedom (his dismissal of open borders as “a Koch brothers proposal” was particularly nauseating). But on some issues, he takes bold positions that I agree with. Although he’s anti-immigration, he is also anti-deportation. I think that would probably be a viable stepping stone to the US returning to an open-borders policy, even though it is plainly incoherent in itself. Sanders also supports expansion of franchise for felons and prisoners, which is a key issue.

Elizabeth Warren has tried to market herself as “Bernie if he wasn’t an idiot”. Unfortunately this has led to her keeping his rubbish economic policies (abolishing private healthcare, free college for millionaires) but not the radical social positions which unite some socialists with liberals and libertarians.

Then there’s Tulsi Gabbard. A truly disgusting individual who cuddles up to dictators and has a long history of anti-LGBT statements. She has the worst of Sanders’ economics and the worst of Trump’s conscience. If she won the nomination it would be as devastating to the Democratic Party as Trump’s nomination was for the Republican Party, and would represent the total hollowing out of American democracy. Supporting Gabbard would be just a case of supporting “the blue team” and would be just as morally unconscionable as Republicans sticking by Trump because he’s “on the red team”. Fortunately, Gabbard’s refusal to impeach Trump has destroyed her already-low support with Democrats.


Dude. Don't try to make predictions cause yours are always hideously wrong.

The Democrats tried your theory with Clinton last time and she lost to a game show host :lol: :lol:

No rational human being supports open borders. Especially the working class that you don't understand and hate. You obviously don't mix with normal people. Proposing giving free healthcare to illegal immigrants is mentally derranged. Gabbard is the only one who isn't thick or insane enough to do so.

Try to just listen to others and learn from them.


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The_Walrus
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08 Feb 2020, 6:30 pm

The UK gives free healthcare to illegal immigrants...



Roboto
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08 Feb 2020, 6:43 pm

I support open borders more than I support having to subsidize all the annoying children Americans keep making...



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08 Feb 2020, 7:02 pm

Currently I really don't like anyone who is running but Tulsi, in a Condorcet way I would rather hedge my bets than take a forward looking bet. Some states have third party primaries but if the value of a primary vote was more and could get more policies in tack as a default, then Tulsi makes more sense. Further she seems to be more presidential than the majority of those running.



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08 Feb 2020, 7:50 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
The UK gives free healthcare to illegal immigrants...


No it does not. You can't go into the doctor's surgery and get an appointment if you are here illegally. You're confusing emergency treatment with everything else.


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08 Feb 2020, 7:53 pm

ILLEGAL immigrants need to be deported.


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08 Feb 2020, 8:07 pm

I went with Mayor Pete. Highly intelligent, being of a minority now being able to reach for equality, and rising up out of obscurity, I think he has the potential for assuming Obama's mantle and with it leadership of a new Democratic coalition.


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08 Feb 2020, 8:47 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
The UK gives free healthcare to illegal immigrants...


Isn’t undocumented the word to use?


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JohnPowell
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08 Feb 2020, 8:53 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
The UK gives free healthcare to illegal immigrants...


Isn’t undocumented the word to use?


NO. That's just propaganda. It implies that the law breaker has the right to break the law. If someone breaks into your home you don't call them "a keyless resident".


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aghogday
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09 Feb 2020, 1:19 am

JohnPowell wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
Michael Bennet is probably the candidate who is closest to me. Like me, he has no chance of becoming President this year.

The other candidates I was enthusiastic about were Kamala Harris, Cory Booker, and Kirsten Gillibrand. All have dropped out and were sensible to do so.

There is a large group I consider broadly acceptable. Patrick, Steyer, Klobuchar, and Bloomberg are the survivors of this group. However, while they are more electable than Bennet, it looks like none of them have the ability to win the nomination any more.

Andrew Yang deserves a special mention. On policies he’d probably be my second choice after Bennet, but I don’t think he has the essential personal qualities that a President needs, including his complete lack of political experience and his suspect views on race. I’m also concerned that his generalised support for “autism treatments” will probably translate to ABA. He often uses his autistic child as a prop, which firstly I wish he wouldn’t do (his child has a right to privacy) and secondly is disappointing because his autism policies fall well short of Hillary Clinton. Don’t say “I have an autistic kid”, set out your vision!

There are two candidates I would be happy to see in the White House who still have a realistic chance. They are Joe Biden and Pete Buttigieg. I think Buttigieg has two big weaknesses: his lack of experience, and his alienation of the black population of South Bend which seems to have impacted his wider appeal to black voters. I get the impression he wouldn’t have run if Ted Cruz was President.

Joe Biden, well, it all goes without saying. He’d be an excellent president and he has a broad coalition of support. My concerns are his age, and his tendency to make mistakes when speaking from the cuff.

Then there are two candidates who I would still prefer to Trump but it would mean I spent months holding my nose and biting my tongue.

Bernie Sanders is far too left-wing for my tastes. He has also made several populist attacks on freedom (his dismissal of open borders as “a Koch brothers proposal” was particularly nauseating). But on some issues, he takes bold positions that I agree with. Although he’s anti-immigration, he is also anti-deportation. I think that would probably be a viable stepping stone to the US returning to an open-borders policy, even though it is plainly incoherent in itself. Sanders also supports expansion of franchise for felons and prisoners, which is a key issue.

Elizabeth Warren has tried to market herself as “Bernie if he wasn’t an idiot”. Unfortunately this has led to her keeping his rubbish economic policies (abolishing private healthcare, free college for millionaires) but not the radical social positions which unite some socialists with liberals and libertarians.

Then there’s Tulsi Gabbard. A truly disgusting individual who cuddles up to dictators and has a long history of anti-LGBT statements. She has the worst of Sanders’ economics and the worst of Trump’s conscience. If she won the nomination it would be as devastating to the Democratic Party as Trump’s nomination was for the Republican Party, and would represent the total hollowing out of American democracy. Supporting Gabbard would be just a case of supporting “the blue team” and would be just as morally unconscionable as Republicans sticking by Trump because he’s “on the red team”. Fortunately, Gabbard’s refusal to impeach Trump has destroyed her already-low support with Democrats.


Dude. Don't try to make predictions cause yours are always hideously wrong.

The Democrats tried your theory with Clinton last time and she lost to a game show host :lol: :lol:

No rational human being supports open borders. Especially the working class that you don't understand and hate. You obviously don't mix with normal people. Proposing giving free healthcare to illegal immigrants is mentally derranged. Gabbard is the only one who isn't thick or insane enough to do so.

Try to just listen to others and learn from them.


Or You can do the research and find out for Yourself.

"In Thailand, migrants — who account for more than 6 percent of the country's 67.1 million population — are able to immediately buy and access the country's universal health care.

It's the only country in the world where migrants there illegally have the same health care rights as nationals. This policy has been in place since August 2013, when Thailand's Ministry of Public Health extended the country's extant universal health care policy — which has been in place for Thai nationals since 2002 — to include migrants."

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandso ... d-migrants

FACT CHECKING IS FUN!

Google is Your Friend..;)

Takes all of about 2 seconds, for me at least..;)

Per Wiki, Buddhism Comprises 94.5 Percent of Religious Participation There; Not Surprising to me.

True; Highly Unlikely; and Highly Ironic that 'Republican Political Leaders' who Profess "Jesus Christ"
as their Lord and Savior Would Provide Health Care to the Stranger With No Resources at all; of course that Stranger
is who 'Jesus' Said He Will Be in all cases; as that Obviously Is the Same Hypocrisy that many 'Republican Christians'
continue to make; for those who Do not Believe in the actual Teachings of Jesus that most Definitely do
Support the Stranger With Nothing From Foreign Lands. So, i guess if the Jesus Dude was real and
really wanted to come back; Thailand would be the only place Housing Buddhists who would really
Welcome His Teachings, overall, today.


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Karamazov
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09 Feb 2020, 4:34 am

And as far as the removal of migrants who have not gone through the legally correct channels to enter the UK is concerned: May I suggest a quick google of “Yarlswood Detention Centre”?



The_Walrus
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09 Feb 2020, 6:46 am

Tim_Tex wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
The UK gives free healthcare to illegal immigrants...


Isn’t undocumented the word to use?

In the US, yes, that's quite popular as it removes the unfair stigma of "illegal" (there's nothing wrong with immigrating, even if the law says you can't).

In the UK, anti-immigration rhetoric doesn't really distinguish between "legal" and "illegal" very much - there's more focus on "skilled" versus "unskilled" (even though we need both), as well as calling asylum seekers and refugees "economic migrants". As Karamazov rightly points out, our immigration policy isn't utopian, but all forms of immigrant including illegal immigrants, are allowed to register with a GP for free, attend hospital appointments for free, and receive emergency and non-emergency care for free. Source.

My view, very strongly held, is that:

1) Barriers to immigration are very hard to justify. I think you could justify it only if you had good reason to believe that the individual concerned was a serious threat to public safety.

2) There is no justification for discrimination against immigrants. It's bigotry, plain and simple.



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09 Feb 2020, 7:45 am

^ well said.

I’d also like to add that in the UK there is a very wide diversity of ethnic, religious and cultural backgrounds amongst a multiplicity of migrant communities: different communities settling in different areas of the country.

‘Immigrants’ as a term papers over those differences and allows, for instance, third generation Muslim citizens concerned about their safety visa viz: Eastern European conservative Christians to vote in alignment with ethnically native far-right islamophones. It’s an inherently disingenuous term that can be interpreted a hundred different ways when applied to the concrete reality of the world we live in.



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11 Feb 2020, 12:10 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYEDA3JcQqw

Biden with his latest 'Misfit', Has proven Himself as Having a Lack of Emotional Maturity.
While it would be Wonderful, if Free Health Care and College are Available; sadly, it's not
Reasonably feasible to do it in this Country; There is Just way too much Greed and not enough Compassion.
That's a Human DisEase that does not easily go away; And for the most part where i live, where the Majority
Votes 85 Percent for Trump and call themselves 'Christians'; the actual action of life comes nowhere close,
overall, to Matching the Beatitudes of Clothing and Providing Health Care to the Immigrant Seeking Asylum;
even if they were looking for a Manger to House their Mexican or other 'Brown {jesus} Child' from a Less Fortunate Country. They Are Treated Like an ET from a Different Planet; but no doubt, if a Real Jesus came back; he and or her
would provide Free Health Care, Food and Shelter, even to a Friendly ET with a Heart Light from another Planet;
For he and or her would understand that the value of a Heart Light is what holds Society together most when real.

More than anything; we Need Balance of working together Brought back in this Country; It appears to me
at this point that the only person who could possibly do that with any possible chance of winning that
is surely still only 1 in 25, is Pete Buttigieg; my Wife and i will make this common sense selection in the
Primaries; However, statistically speaking, at this point with common sense too; it's not hard
to see that more than likely, unless Health problems bring him down; Sanders will win
the General Election and we will have 4 More years of strife with the Republicans attacking Sanders again
this go around, where it is Highly unlikely any real problems will get fixed, with No one willing to Cooperate.
"A REAL GASLIT FATHER OF ALL LIES" is no option for me in the General Election; Sanders will get my Vote and
my Wife's Vote too; unless someone else finds a way; yes, a miracle to sneak in who can/will find a way to work
with the other side too.

The Waters are Troubled, and the Bridge Above is looking harder and harder to mend;

Who will step up and mend it; is it even possible; and what does that mean for this Country?

Even more important; does the General Public, even have the time or effort/focus to Give a Damn about it now.

Considering that Science Assesses the average Human Being now with an 'Attention Span of Less than a Gold Fish';
There We Literally Have it now in a 'Nut Shell of Twitter Breaths'. People are more attuned to 'Trump Breaths', sadly now.

Shallow Societies don't survive long.

We no Longer 'Rock and Roll in the Deep'.


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Last edited by aghogday on 11 Feb 2020, 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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11 Feb 2020, 12:13 pm

aghogday wrote:
Biden with his latest 'Misfit', Has proven Himself as Having a Lack of Emotional Maturity.

So …. who gets your vote??


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